I have a 1969 gtv shell and a 1971 gtv which I am taking all the parts from(that were the same from the 71 and the 69)and putting all the parts into the 69. However, the engine that was in the 71 was replaced and is a 2000 engine instead of a 1750 like it should be. If I were to put this engine into the 69 would it decrease the overall value of the car? Also does painting a gtv not the original color decrease the value as well? Any help is appreciated, thank you!
Alfa Reuben
in regards to the color, i would recommend if you are going to change it, change it to a period correct color.
I don't think value is greatly affected if the upgrades or color change is done properly. I had a bare-metal respray and changed the color of my car from the original Biancospino to Bluette, partly because it had been poorly repainted a non-Alfa green by a previous owner. The brakes had also been changed from the original Dunlop to the later ATE style as well. I kept those on, because many feel it is a worthwhile improvement.
With that said, as the cars become more valuable (and they are albeit slowly), I think originality will matter more, and we'll start seeing a price differential for original versus "upgraded" spec cars. That has yet to happen though, so providing the changes you do are reversible, I think some carefully considered upgrades are good.
With that said, as the cars become more valuable (and they are albeit slowly), I think originality will matter more, and we'll start seeing a price differential for original versus "upgraded" spec cars. That has yet to happen though, so providing the changes you do are reversible, I think some carefully considered upgrades are good.
Originalty is kind of a moving target in that there's really no solid definition of the word. The kinds of changes you are contemplating fall into a rather nebulous category called "period modifications". My take on this is that if you are making a modification which enhances the car's performance and was something that an enthusiast might have done in period---like swapping a 2.0 into a 1750---then you're OK. That said, you might consider saving the 1750 engine and sundry parts in case somone in the future wants a car to restore to standard.
The interiors are quite different. Most prefer the interior of the 69 over the 71. So, that could affect the value.
I would say that if you are building a driver quality car non-originality (within reason)won't matter much and certain upgrades could actually be a plus for some potential buyers. For example, the uprated springs and shocks and performance engine mods on my GTV were items I was glad the POs had done - saved me time and money. I agree that a re-paint in a non Alfa or non-period correct color could potentially hurt the value. At the very top end of the market for finely restored cars I would say that non-originality will be seen as negatives.
Yes, everything you mentioned will decrease the car's value significantly especially if you are trying to do an exceptional restoration. If you want to do a simple driver restoration for yourself and resale value is of no importance then do whatever you want.
Many consider the 1750 engine to be superior (and therefore more desirable) to the 2.0L.
Flying buttress seats are a feature sought after by those who covet the '69 GTV in particular as they were only offered in '69.
Changing the car's color correctly is an extremely expensive proposition. When it has been changed it takes nothing more than a simple email to Alfa Storico to verify that the new color is not original.
No, they're not low production Ferraris, but no matter what the marque original and correct always trumps modifications and color changes when it comes to resale value.
Many consider the 1750 engine to be superior (and therefore more desirable) to the 2.0L.
Flying buttress seats are a feature sought after by those who covet the '69 GTV in particular as they were only offered in '69.
Changing the car's color correctly is an extremely expensive proposition. When it has been changed it takes nothing more than a simple email to Alfa Storico to verify that the new color is not original.
No, they're not low production Ferraris, but no matter what the marque original and correct always trumps modifications and color changes when it comes to resale value.
If your not going to use it after restoring it and wait for the value to match what you spent to get an original car maybe you should be looking at spending the resources on a different car, at the very least a different model.
If you intend to use it, build what you want and what you can afford. Seeing as using the parts from a 71 in a 69 is completely reversible, for the most part, get the car together and driving. Trust me that, in of itself, is a big task. Once its driving you can make changes to get it back inline with original if you still feel the need.
Color is a little different as that is harder to correct. If you can find a factory that you like stick to that. Unless your like me and don't intend to sell and then paint it whatever is your heart's desire.
Probably the most expensive gt on the market, excluding specials like gtam and such, are the tribute cars. Cars that make little effort to be original. Take the Alfaholics gtv-r's; 90k pounds. Even the most original, unrestored survivors, low mileage cars don't get anywhere near those numbers.
Build what you liker don't bother
My two cents,
If you intend to use it, build what you want and what you can afford. Seeing as using the parts from a 71 in a 69 is completely reversible, for the most part, get the car together and driving. Trust me that, in of itself, is a big task. Once its driving you can make changes to get it back inline with original if you still feel the need.
Color is a little different as that is harder to correct. If you can find a factory that you like stick to that. Unless your like me and don't intend to sell and then paint it whatever is your heart's desire.
Probably the most expensive gt on the market, excluding specials like gtam and such, are the tribute cars. Cars that make little effort to be original. Take the Alfaholics gtv-r's; 90k pounds. Even the most original, unrestored survivors, low mileage cars don't get anywhere near those numbers.
Build what you liker don't bother
My two cents,
Lots of very good advice above. Matt D is right on.
My good and longstanding Alfisti friied says, "They are only original once". Good faithful restos can come close. Increasingly in the future, on the rarer cars, this will fetch a premium.
But it depends on your goals and what you want to do with your life and the car. There are all sorts of ways to enjoy them: concourse/orig, racing, autocross, various rally types, spirited driver, daily driver, car-culture social scene, technical diddling (tuners), never-ending restos, and possibly investment (not much real joy there).
Consider investment costs too; from the same starting point, an average driver (lots of fun) will cost a fraction of a good racer, concourse or highly tuned car.
From recent sales results racers are DOA but highly original nice solid cars fetch top prices. Very nice tuned and fettled cars can come close. A highly tuned pristine car can exceed an average driver original or lightly modified car.
Above all, have fun with it . . . or them . . .
My good and longstanding Alfisti friied says, "They are only original once". Good faithful restos can come close. Increasingly in the future, on the rarer cars, this will fetch a premium.
But it depends on your goals and what you want to do with your life and the car. There are all sorts of ways to enjoy them: concourse/orig, racing, autocross, various rally types, spirited driver, daily driver, car-culture social scene, technical diddling (tuners), never-ending restos, and possibly investment (not much real joy there).
Consider investment costs too; from the same starting point, an average driver (lots of fun) will cost a fraction of a good racer, concourse or highly tuned car.
From recent sales results racers are DOA but highly original nice solid cars fetch top prices. Very nice tuned and fettled cars can come close. A highly tuned pristine car can exceed an average driver original or lightly modified car.
Above all, have fun with it . . . or them . . .
The reality is even though they were not a low production car like Ferrari they were still built in relatively low numbers so as time goes buy they will get rarer and they are from that particular era of car that is likely to appreciate. To most enthusiasts they are minor exotica with a magic name and marvellous history.
Period mechanical modifications I see as ok -meaning if a car is 1969 then what could an owner of that time have done, same as body/trim, for example Cibie driving lights, tape player or whatever. The paint colour, and trim to ensure future value must in my opinion be as per the original build as originality is the most important thing buyer/investors like and even though I`m sure most current owners are like us in that they own them because they like driving them the reality is `50`s-late `70`s Alfa Romeo`s are the type of car that is more and more likely to be acquired by speculator/investors cum pseudo car enthusiasts as the price of more limited production Italian cars skyrocket.
Most of us never consider selling but circumstances change sometimes without warning and I think it is imprudent not to consider resale value - if even for your heirs.
Period mechanical modifications I see as ok -meaning if a car is 1969 then what could an owner of that time have done, same as body/trim, for example Cibie driving lights, tape player or whatever. The paint colour, and trim to ensure future value must in my opinion be as per the original build as originality is the most important thing buyer/investors like and even though I`m sure most current owners are like us in that they own them because they like driving them the reality is `50`s-late `70`s Alfa Romeo`s are the type of car that is more and more likely to be acquired by speculator/investors cum pseudo car enthusiasts as the price of more limited production Italian cars skyrocket.
Most of us never consider selling but circumstances change sometimes without warning and I think it is imprudent not to consider resale value - if even for your heirs.
I've got two '69s that I am restoring to a high level. They were both originally French Blue. I don't like French Blue so I changed the color. But I did stick with colors offered on GTVs in 1969. Since it's a bare metal resto there is no remnant of the FB.
As far as motors go, I am sticking with the 1750/SPICA (modified) but I wouldn't think twice about putting in a hot 2L. Webers either.
I would never put anything other than Flying Buttress seats in a '69 but while one has stock vinyl (Tan Basketweave) the other has non standard leather (Corvette Red). Stock rear seat in one and shelf in the other ( I loath the rear seats). Modern sound deadening throughout. No ugly stereo to break up the otherwise elegant dash. Goofy cigarette lighter replaced with modern power plug.
Octopus seatbelts have been replaced with modern 3 point units with hidden reels.
Uprated, powder coated suspension, LSD rear end, SS brake lines, aftermarket wheels and no bumpers.
Everything I've done with the exception of the paint is reversible and IMHO an enhancement to the safety, performance and comfort of the car. I don't believe these changes will adversely affect the value of the car. My goal is to build show quality drivers.
Those seeking a totally original car would pass these over as soon as I started to remove the factory equipped rust...
As far as motors go, I am sticking with the 1750/SPICA (modified) but I wouldn't think twice about putting in a hot 2L. Webers either.
I would never put anything other than Flying Buttress seats in a '69 but while one has stock vinyl (Tan Basketweave) the other has non standard leather (Corvette Red). Stock rear seat in one and shelf in the other ( I loath the rear seats). Modern sound deadening throughout. No ugly stereo to break up the otherwise elegant dash. Goofy cigarette lighter replaced with modern power plug.
Octopus seatbelts have been replaced with modern 3 point units with hidden reels.
Uprated, powder coated suspension, LSD rear end, SS brake lines, aftermarket wheels and no bumpers.
Everything I've done with the exception of the paint is reversible and IMHO an enhancement to the safety, performance and comfort of the car. I don't believe these changes will adversely affect the value of the car. My goal is to build show quality drivers.
Those seeking a totally original car would pass these over as soon as I started to remove the factory equipped rust...
This chart is incomplete. My cars were originally French Blue. Perhaps different markets had different colors available.
Seems I had a rant in me this morning, Enjoy!
Correct me where I am off base here. All prices assume excellent condition unless otherwise stated.
GTAm $100,000-250,000 depending on pedigree
GTC, GTA $100,000-150,000
GTA/GTAm tribute $60-100,000
Stepnose top condition $30,000-40,000
GTV top condition $25,000-35,000
GT/GTV Race prepped $25,000-50,000
GTV Driver $10,000-20,000
GTV project $0-4,000
I think this is a fair assessment of where the market has been on these cars over the last few years. Where your particular car falls on this list and how much you need to spend to get it to top condition will determine your return on investment.
You can easy spend $20k to get a driver to top condition either original original or mostly original with choice performance upgrades; easily.
I think the GTAm tribute is probably the best ROI for our cars. And a clean driver, bought right, is the best bang for your buck.
By the way the GTV that sold at Monterey last year for $44k is an outlier as far as I am concerned and none of us should be using that as the bench mark for our cars.
I love me GTV!! Even go so far as to say I want to build another...
Correct me where I am off base here. All prices assume excellent condition unless otherwise stated.
GTAm $100,000-250,000 depending on pedigree
GTC, GTA $100,000-150,000
GTA/GTAm tribute $60-100,000
Stepnose top condition $30,000-40,000
GTV top condition $25,000-35,000
GT/GTV Race prepped $25,000-50,000
GTV Driver $10,000-20,000
GTV project $0-4,000
I think this is a fair assessment of where the market has been on these cars over the last few years. Where your particular car falls on this list and how much you need to spend to get it to top condition will determine your return on investment.
You can easy spend $20k to get a driver to top condition either original original or mostly original with choice performance upgrades; easily.
I think the GTAm tribute is probably the best ROI for our cars. And a clean driver, bought right, is the best bang for your buck.
By the way the GTV that sold at Monterey last year for $44k is an outlier as far as I am concerned and none of us should be using that as the bench mark for our cars.
I love me GTV!! Even go so far as to say I want to build another...
I've had this debate around the BB and on BaT a few times, but from my observation and from resources such as Haggerty's Valuation Tools, I think that Stepnoses in 'top' (not unique, outlier or concourse) condition are about equal with their 1750 & 2000 brethren. Doesn't stop me and lots of others wanting the stepnose more, but I think that the usability and availability of the later cars keeps their prices on par with the earlier ones.Correct me where I am off base here. All prices assume excellent condition unless otherwise stated.
GTAm $100,000-250,000 depending on pedigree
GTC, GTA $100,000-150,000
GTA/GTAm tribute $60-100,000
Stepnose top condition $30,000-40,000
GTV top condition $25,000-35,000
GT/GTV Race prepped $25,000-50,000
GTV Driver $10,000-20,000
GTV project $0-4,000
Your numbers basically reflect that but give the stepnose a little more reach at the very top, which seems fair.
105 GT Production
Here is a table from WiKi and a link. (I am not at home near my Fusi and Tabucci so this has to suffice for now.) Many more made than one would have thought - over 225,000 total, but less than half of the Giulias over the same period.
Over 105,000 Junior's alone. Some 120,000+ "seniors". But very few early ones, especially stepnose GTV's (14k). No Juniors officially imported to the US, and few GT's before the 69MY (1750).
There cannot be more than several hundred stepnoses here (??). About the same number as all running Giulia sedans here.
(The table may corrupt when saved but the data is there.)
Version Years of production Units produced[1]
Sprint GT from 1963 to 1966 21,542
Sprint GTC from 1964 to 1966 1,000
Sprint GTV from 1965 to 1968 14,240
1750 GTV from 1968 to 1973 44,269
2000 GTV from 1971 to 1976 37,459
GT 1300 Junior from 1965 to 1977 91,195
GT 1600 Junior from 1972 to 1976 14,299
Besides their graceful look, simplicity and lack of spunk applied, the relative rarity drives the price of a stepnose. IMO they will always fetch a premium over the later GT's in similar condition. But then again, this may be an acquired taste, like a Giulia. There is a comparative wad of 1750's and 2L's here - many thousands - vs. many hundreds of stepnoses. And you can always plop a 2l in for more grins.
Here is a table from WiKi and a link. (I am not at home near my Fusi and Tabucci so this has to suffice for now.) Many more made than one would have thought - over 225,000 total, but less than half of the Giulias over the same period.
Over 105,000 Junior's alone. Some 120,000+ "seniors". But very few early ones, especially stepnose GTV's (14k). No Juniors officially imported to the US, and few GT's before the 69MY (1750).
There cannot be more than several hundred stepnoses here (??). About the same number as all running Giulia sedans here.
(The table may corrupt when saved but the data is there.)
Version Years of production Units produced[1]
Sprint GT from 1963 to 1966 21,542
Sprint GTC from 1964 to 1966 1,000
Sprint GTV from 1965 to 1968 14,240
1750 GTV from 1968 to 1973 44,269
2000 GTV from 1971 to 1976 37,459
GT 1300 Junior from 1965 to 1977 91,195
GT 1600 Junior from 1972 to 1976 14,299
Besides their graceful look, simplicity and lack of spunk applied, the relative rarity drives the price of a stepnose. IMO they will always fetch a premium over the later GT's in similar condition. But then again, this may be an acquired taste, like a Giulia. There is a comparative wad of 1750's and 2L's here - many thousands - vs. many hundreds of stepnoses. And you can always plop a 2l in for more grins.
Guess that explains why our beloved GTVs are NOT in Porsche 356 value territory (77K total production). IMO the GTV is FAR superior (I've driven both) and those shelling out the big $$$ for their 356s are simply missing the boat (ok with me
). FWIW... Early 911s (63'-'76 similar to GTV years) were around 130K if memory serves. Have you seen their prices recently ???Buy gold. It's better speculation than cars. Today, and in the next 2-5 years (it'll take that long if you work hard), you will spend LOTS more on your car than you could possibly sell it for, whether you restore it to 95 point concours or just a good driver. Hoping that it's value will rise significantly above today's value? Nonsense!
It will take 10 to 20 years at best. And if market interest fades away from Alfa, you loose - anybody want a pristine '64 Turbo Corvair for $100,000? Over that time frame, your investment will earn between MINUS 5% to plus 5% per year. This is NOT an investment decision.
Do what you enjoy! Doing this is for the joy of working on cars, and the smiles we all get from driving them.
Robert
BTW - Miguel, I think you are right on in your list of conditions and prices. Spiders are higher, but nowhere near the GTA world.
It will take 10 to 20 years at best. And if market interest fades away from Alfa, you loose - anybody want a pristine '64 Turbo Corvair for $100,000? Over that time frame, your investment will earn between MINUS 5% to plus 5% per year. This is NOT an investment decision.
Do what you enjoy! Doing this is for the joy of working on cars, and the smiles we all get from driving them.
Robert
BTW - Miguel, I think you are right on in your list of conditions and prices. Spiders are higher, but nowhere near the GTA world.
Robert, you think GTC and GTA are that far apart? Maybe. They don't get traded enough to have a proper sampling. I would like to think they are available for less then 100K; might have to start lobbying the boss
Alfanuts, you point out a very real fact. That's why their is a little bump between step and smooth nose on my list. Not sure if selling prices support this theory or not though. I watch the asking prices and make little effort to find out what the cars actually sold for. Its possible that the sale price drops a lot more on the smooth nose cars than on the step nose cars. The condition of the car at the time offered makes more of a difference than the vintage in my opinion.
Yes there are a lot of folks that hold the stepnose at a higher esteem than the smooth nose cars. But it can also be said the their is a fairly strong following for 1750's. The mystique around the engine and design of the dash. <shrug>
I concur with Robert, if your looking for an investment, buy gold, AAPL, WMT, or POOL. If your looking to have a blast driving a car buy a Bertone.
Alfanuts, you point out a very real fact. That's why their is a little bump between step and smooth nose on my list. Not sure if selling prices support this theory or not though. I watch the asking prices and make little effort to find out what the cars actually sold for. Its possible that the sale price drops a lot more on the smooth nose cars than on the step nose cars. The condition of the car at the time offered makes more of a difference than the vintage in my opinion.
Yes there are a lot of folks that hold the stepnose at a higher esteem than the smooth nose cars. But it can also be said the their is a fairly strong following for 1750's. The mystique around the engine and design of the dash. <shrug>
I concur with Robert, if your looking for an investment, buy gold, AAPL, WMT, or POOL. If your looking to have a blast driving a car buy a Bertone.
Miguel,
I seemed to have overlooked the GTC. It's so uncommon that when I saw one, many years ago, I thought it was a mod! I agree that it's so uncommon the there really is no valid price point. Last one I saw available was a really bad basket case!
I doubt that you could buy any real GTA under $100,000, maybe not even $150,000. The "tribute" versions (replicas or fakes) maybe.
In any case, restoring these cars is not an economic choice. If you do it yourself (mostly) what you get is some good skill improvements; yhou still spend more than it's worth once you're done. If you pay others, you REALLY loose ground financially!
Robert
I seemed to have overlooked the GTC. It's so uncommon that when I saw one, many years ago, I thought it was a mod! I agree that it's so uncommon the there really is no valid price point. Last one I saw available was a really bad basket case!
I doubt that you could buy any real GTA under $100,000, maybe not even $150,000. The "tribute" versions (replicas or fakes) maybe.
In any case, restoring these cars is not an economic choice. If you do it yourself (mostly) what you get is some good skill improvements; yhou still spend more than it's worth once you're done. If you pay others, you REALLY loose ground financially!
Robert
I buy my cars simply for use and pleasure. This discussion is of intellectual diversion because, moreso, little cars (Alfas) make little money while the big cars can make (or loose) big money. But, I am pretty sure that none of mine will loose any money while I enjoy them. We are only stewards. A wise and wealthy x-car dealer on the east coast said he was indeed putting some of his IRA money into some vintage cars, for both enjoyment, and a hedge and appreciation. And the Giulia had become his favorite driver notably. I would not buy an Alfa, especially a project, for appreciation, if that is the question being asked by this thread. A sound, original and rarer car will always be a winner though in the mid-term (until we can no longer register them). Sounds like we are all pretty much in agreement on this!! B
I think Seabird's chart is pretty close. A word about investment - For most of us I don't think that much consideration is given to investment, but no one wants to take a financial bath or substantially hurt the value of a car by making the wrong choices in mods or a restoration. I would prefer to keep an exceptionally original GTV original (mine is NOT). I have no trouble modifying a relatively common GTV to my liking, particularly if it is rough around the edges to begin with. Generally speaking, a restored car will usually bring higher resale than a modified one.
It seems to me the majority of people want these cars to drive them. I think the GT trailer queen is something of a rare bird. Even the highest end GTAs get run on the track. So for me, a low mileage totally original car is a negative in the sense that I would be depreciating it with every mile. I'm glad they exist and that there are folks to take care of them.
But as far as numbers go, the '69 and '71 1750 GTVs (USA) are the rarest of the production GT's with somewhere around 600 of each made. Each year was unique - the '69 leaning more toward the earlier years with the small tail lights and the '71 with the larger taillights and hanging pedals.
Personally I think the '69 1750 is the zenith of GT design and function. The beefier front end (radiator supports, 4 bolt lower A's and heavier gauge crossmember), dual circuit brakes, 1750 motor and IMHO, the most handsome and refined interior of any GT. I prefer the old school grille, the small tail lights and round or no side markers. I like having a gasketed front windshield rather than the glued in version. Nearly as light as a step and nearly as brawny as a 2000. (Not sure I've even seen the word "brawny" used to describe a GTV but what the heck...) - the best of both worlds.
This doesn't mean I don't like the earlier or the later models - I'll take any GT, any time!
But as far as numbers go, the '69 and '71 1750 GTVs (USA) are the rarest of the production GT's with somewhere around 600 of each made. Each year was unique - the '69 leaning more toward the earlier years with the small tail lights and the '71 with the larger taillights and hanging pedals.
Personally I think the '69 1750 is the zenith of GT design and function. The beefier front end (radiator supports, 4 bolt lower A's and heavier gauge crossmember), dual circuit brakes, 1750 motor and IMHO, the most handsome and refined interior of any GT. I prefer the old school grille, the small tail lights and round or no side markers. I like having a gasketed front windshield rather than the glued in version. Nearly as light as a step and nearly as brawny as a 2000. (Not sure I've even seen the word "brawny" used to describe a GTV but what the heck...) - the best of both worlds.
This doesn't mean I don't like the earlier or the later models - I'll take any GT, any time!
I don't have the SS production numbers now but I suspect it is in the GTA, GTC range, very low. Beautiful and rare. And matt you are right on, who wants to deflate a nice car. Get a beater and spunk it all up. My 65 Giulia was bought in 95% concourse shape. I'll work to fix that last 5%. My modified 2L, 4,30, lowered, tweaked 72 Super is the playtoy.
Also, discussed above, there has to be enough sales to predict the market well. I follow Giulias closely. There are not enough sales here of like cars to make good estimates; they are all over the map. I counted over a 2 year period about 1/10th the listing of Giulias to roundtail spiders which are in short enough supply!! A rise in roundtail prices brought a lot out of the woodwork, but there are only a few hundred Giulias over here. But, Giulias are an acquired Alfisti taste. Love 'em or hate 'em. There are enough Giulia sales in Europe to make good estimates on them there but their oddity here does not translate well.
This scenario is probably similar for stepnoses, beiing a small fraction of the non-stepnose GT listings, but perhaps a more acquired Alfa taste, or maybe they are in more "project" shape scaring many away. Look at the nice driver '67 GTV with many issues that sold for $23,100 on e-Bay. Astounding. An outlier?? Many folks prefer the non-stepnose look and bigger engines. But it seems that most oldtimers have evolved to the earlier cars wit pre-69 being a soft dividing line with many. Entry guys want a tuned and lowered red 2L GTV "sportscar". Eventually they like a 69, and finally they covet a nice solid original stepnose driver. Guilty as charged. How many old timers hated a Giulia then and now covet them.
Like my friend in Corpus says, "Just get out there and drive". B
Also, discussed above, there has to be enough sales to predict the market well. I follow Giulias closely. There are not enough sales here of like cars to make good estimates; they are all over the map. I counted over a 2 year period about 1/10th the listing of Giulias to roundtail spiders which are in short enough supply!! A rise in roundtail prices brought a lot out of the woodwork, but there are only a few hundred Giulias over here. But, Giulias are an acquired Alfisti taste. Love 'em or hate 'em. There are enough Giulia sales in Europe to make good estimates on them there but their oddity here does not translate well.
This scenario is probably similar for stepnoses, beiing a small fraction of the non-stepnose GT listings, but perhaps a more acquired Alfa taste, or maybe they are in more "project" shape scaring many away. Look at the nice driver '67 GTV with many issues that sold for $23,100 on e-Bay. Astounding. An outlier?? Many folks prefer the non-stepnose look and bigger engines. But it seems that most oldtimers have evolved to the earlier cars wit pre-69 being a soft dividing line with many. Entry guys want a tuned and lowered red 2L GTV "sportscar". Eventually they like a 69, and finally they covet a nice solid original stepnose driver. Guilty as charged. How many old timers hated a Giulia then and now covet them.
Like my friend in Corpus says, "Just get out there and drive". B
Rich, there were over 44,000 1750 GTV's made. I have a hard time believing that only 1200 or so officially made it over here. Is that correct?? Wow. B
I think Rich is referring to the USA version 1750 GTVs model 10551. I've no verifiable 1971 model year production numbers but for the 1969 model year, 1,232 units were produced (including the GTAms). The 44k number includes the 10551 cars, the non-USA LHD 10544s and RHD 10545s.
The GTV is definitely an acquired taste. The early round tail spiders (full disclosure - I drive a 67 roundtail spider I bought new a long time ago) are among the most desirable Alfas after the GTA's ( and GTC"S or even rarer SS's). I'd put the step nose GT's as next, especially for their weaknesses. Of course cars that endure in production get betterbut the later ones are not so uncommon as the ones that started the marque.
The GT in any form is a much better racer today, with the safety and roll bar rules most clubs and tracks levy. In the 60's, the Duettos were the most fun as full-up club racers - they were so low and tiny. ( they reminded me of the D-Jag that started my lifetime interest in sports car racing). A segment of Alfisti will always want to race these cars - they are so much fun on a track. In the early days they were often winners as they came closer to a full up racer off the dealer's floor than the others of its day, and were faster for less dollars.
As a club racer today, it's hard to beat the BMW's and Ricers, with modern combustion chambers and computerized fuel injection; out Alfas just give up too much power, and a bit of weight too (modern high strength - thin - steel).
But part of the ongoing interest in Alfas is its ability to eat up a racetrack. Lots of owners enjoy the thrill of autocross or time trials. In today's over-regulated world, it's our youthful rebellion.
On the road, the best of Alfa life is tooling around at the (not too dangerous) limit on our local back roads. Choice of tire is really important here! Too much rubber is NOT good for these cars. They are more fun with tires closer to their origins than the steam-roller wide and sticky tires of today's cars. They squeal and oversteer just enough; they are not too fast to be actually dangerous; they feel so very nimble!
Robert
The GT in any form is a much better racer today, with the safety and roll bar rules most clubs and tracks levy. In the 60's, the Duettos were the most fun as full-up club racers - they were so low and tiny. ( they reminded me of the D-Jag that started my lifetime interest in sports car racing). A segment of Alfisti will always want to race these cars - they are so much fun on a track. In the early days they were often winners as they came closer to a full up racer off the dealer's floor than the others of its day, and were faster for less dollars.
As a club racer today, it's hard to beat the BMW's and Ricers, with modern combustion chambers and computerized fuel injection; out Alfas just give up too much power, and a bit of weight too (modern high strength - thin - steel).
But part of the ongoing interest in Alfas is its ability to eat up a racetrack. Lots of owners enjoy the thrill of autocross or time trials. In today's over-regulated world, it's our youthful rebellion.
On the road, the best of Alfa life is tooling around at the (not too dangerous) limit on our local back roads. Choice of tire is really important here! Too much rubber is NOT good for these cars. They are more fun with tires closer to their origins than the steam-roller wide and sticky tires of today's cars. They squeal and oversteer just enough; they are not too fast to be actually dangerous; they feel so very nimble!
Robert
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