If the sills/rockets look good and car drives well just rust protect.

If rust bubbles appear in the future you will only have added some happy miles to your car, and can then buy all 3 layers and replace.

Maybe buy the replacement panels now if you have the funds and are worried that they will stop making them.

Do not take a good looking and driving Alfa off the road. Restoration costs big $'s and time ...
Pete

 

I’d agree. At some point the rust will show its self on the outer sill surface, at that point I’d start replacing metal.

 

Fix it!

 

Appreciate the input. My biggest fear is handing over a clean good running GTV to the shop and ending up with a rusty patched-up barn find...

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... My biggest fear is handing over a clean good running GTV to the shop and ending up with a rusty patched-up barn find...

Then drive it as-is and be in a bit of denial... or sell it and find a better car. With the extent of apparent rust, waxoyl makes no sense since it’s intended to protect steel that isn’t already corroded. If you address the sills, what about the rest of the car and other areas that are known to corrode? Ask anyone who has gotten into GTV body restoration and I assure you that the scope, cost and time is more than they originally estimated. It’s not for the faint of heart. Based on the photos, your fears are validated. These are hard lessons to learn, put sometimes it’s better to admit the mistake than to continue going down the wrong path. Granted, you may have some geographical considerations that would justify keeping and repairing. But if this were a car in the US, there are plenty of other options out there for a better road worthy high quality GTV.

 

in a 105 that is being driven (Regularly driven!) sheetmetal is almost a consumable, so run it until it starts getting bad. Anything can be fixed but like Pete said, you may well be looking down the barrel of a long and expensive resto job. Are you up for that or do you want to drive the car?

Oh, and do not think for one minute that a so-called "rust free" car will not have hidden horrors like the ones you may or may not have. Drive it!

 

I'm going through what started as an outer sill replacement, and became and inner & middle sill repair and partial restoration. The more I dig the more rust I find, and I have to find it. You can't weld properly on really rusty panels.

What was a small rust spot that my friend decided to poke with a screwdriver became an infinite, never ending void of sadness and a huge money pit. I'm really glad I know how to weld.

Don't be like me, just drive the **** thing. You will know when it's time to park her, then it is on to the rotisserie.

 

What was a small rust spot that my friend decided to poke with a screwdriver became an infinite, never ending void of sadness and a huge money pit.

THIS^^^^

 

If the Outer sills are showing no rust, and the door seams are straight, use Wurth cavity wax, if it is an occasional driver and stored in a proper garage (concrete floor) you will be driving it for a very long time. https://www.wurthusa.com/Chemical-Product/Protective-Wax/Cavity-Wax/c/141601

 

Drive the car until you're ready to leave it for a few weeks to repair the rust.

If you think that it's time on the rockers, there will also be the middle and inner rockers as well, obligatorily ...

So in the meantime, drive this great car and enjoy the beautiful roads of the country.

For example, a high rise from the Dead Sea to Mount Nebo !!! I really like to do it in Alfa. The sound... the turns of the road... :smile2:

 

Samer, there are a number of places that typically rust on these cars. If you look through that many different GTV restoration threads, you should be able to see what I mean. The most important things is that the frame rails (or inner rockers as some call them) are structurally sound. Some folks test the structural integrity of the frame rails by taking a screw driver and trying to puncture the frame rail from under the car. The motion that is used would be much like trying to stab someone with a knife. Just saying.

Something that could help you is a cell phone endoscope. They are relatively cheap and easy to use. Amazon has a great selection of them.

 

I'm not sure how spraying Waxoyl can come back to bite you. Best case you buy yourself a whole bunch of time. Worst case it starts to bubble anyway and then you fix it.

If you look for rust on nearly any GTV you'll find it.

 

My limited experience has been on the mid 80 restos if the inner sill was sound and middle sill funcky the body guys would weld the outer sills and that was it. No so now with the value of the cars. That is why I mentioned if the door seams are straight and the rocker is as the author states, (and its not a daily driver) the Waxoyl will greatly slow down any further deterioration. If he can jack the car up on all 4 jack points ,one at a time and the doors open and close the structure is sound.

 

If you are not going to dig in there and cut and weld with new metal, at least use a rust converter chemical first before using anything like the wax based stuff. You want to convert that rusted metal to something inert before covering, otherwise you are just covering up future trouble.

 

I wouldn't try to use chemical rust converter in an enclosed space like a sill. It's not like converting the rust adds any strength back anyway.

If you coat any rust liberally with wax that'll seal out moisture and oxygen and delay further degradation. That's the best you can hope for at this point.

 

You know of course that oxygen and water can migrate slowly through these wax coatings, esp if not applied thoroughly. I've read that the standard practice in auto repair shops should be to first chemically convert the rust to an inert and protective coating which prevents any more corrosion in the affected surface, ie, "treat the inside of the panel and any remaining rust with rust converter". The conversion chemicals do not create noxious/hazardous odors.

Lol, wax doesn't add any strength back either.

However, use whatever makes you comfortable. Such a nice and valuable car, if it was my car...I think I would get it fixed properly from the get go.

 

Such a nice and valuable car, if it was my car...I think I would get it fixed properly from the get go.

Hang on Del, this means that if you were to buy any second hand car your would go through a restoration process before using it!? The car in question does not have any rust showing, why go looking for it? Now if there are areas of the body already showing poor repairs, fair enough, but if it looks nice with no visible rust bubbles, etc. then why stress? You can enjoy that stress when a rust bubble finally appears

My 2001 156v6 is not perfect, got a few stone chips and scratches, and has had some repainting and minor damage to a jacking point from an idiot miss-using a jack, but it is very presentable and is rattle free and drives wonderfully. I never intend to restore it, even if I won Lotto ...

I thought the motto about buying the best car you can afford was to avoid a restoration. Confused ...
Pete

 

I assumed that he found signs of rust somewhere, as in, "to get to the rust left behind by previous owner". If not, well, yeah, drive it, but if there are any signs at all, I've always had it fixed on my cars soon, rather than wait to see if it would get worse, which it always does.

I've seen Alfas where it was let go for whatever reason, and then it became costly to finally repair, or, the car was parted, alas. I really prefer to catch it up front, at the beginning. No choice in my own book since '66, except for one car, I admit. That was the 75 Alfetta sedan, which rusted all around the engine bay and front/rear suspension under the sheet metal lapped joints, etc, before my very eyes, in only two years in Washington, DC. That car was the only Alfa I've had which did that. Had no idea it would do that (my first Alfa, the 64 Sprint GT, didn't rust except for the glass trim clips areas, in Seattle in 260k miles), and I just didn't catch the 1975 Alfetta destruction in time. The Alfas I've had since haven't rusted, except again, the 78 Alfetta sedan window trim clips, IIRC. Example, the 91 164S, DD since 1994, with 192k miles on it, has zero signs of corrosion anywhere. Superb resistance, at least in this area, lol..

 

All valuable input. But since I have Alfa Romeo psychosis with (4) Alfa Romeos on my hand I'm thinking to start with the Spider which my son recently dinged [emoji19] and will need body work. About 5 years ago I had it repainted after spraying the wheel well and a bit of the front underbody with Liqui Molly's Zinc paint primer. Will see how those areas have held up after stripping the paint and decide accordingly.
Intellectually I am convinced that I really "should" remove the bad metal but I would much rather "hold-back / slow down" the rust bug than open up a big can of worms which can't be closed once the inner sills are stripped open...
Let you all know in a couple of weeks.

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I think you are getting confusing messages. You have to work out when it comes to fixing a 105 what are the current expectations of 105 ownership.
How about you sell the car to yourself as a thought exercise as it is now (after you view the inside of the sills with a camera). Then as a thought exercise fix it properly then asked yourself again. Your conclusion is? Fix it or not to fix it? It does not matter how long it takes (say in your lifetime). Your decision in the end, or the person you sell it to if you don't want to proceed.

 

Oyyy... You lost me right after "sell the car to yourself" [emoji1787]

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But since I have your attention, my panel beater insists that cutting the seemingly solid OUTER SILL (even if it were in good shape), makes it unuseable and would have to be replaced anyway. True?

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At that point I'd think you might as well replace it with new.

So how would one get Waxoyl into the 105/115 sills, anyway? I assume you'd have to drill holes, or is the box structure open at the front? I didn't think it was...

 

At that point I'd think you might as well replace it with new.

So how would one get waxy into the 105/115 sills, anyway? I assume you'd have to drill holes, or is the box structure open at the front? I didn't think it was...

I think you would have no choice but to replace it with new once the old outer is pulled out. The metal over there is thin, and likely rusted on the back beyond being able to hold a nice plug weld down.

If you pull the front wheel well liner out you should be able to spray some schmoo in there, I think.

 

In my opinion, there's a difference between rust (surface rust) and rot. If you've got rotted out inner panels, with holes in them, etc, then it might be time to start digging in. If you've got some surface rust, then treatment is probably the better option.

Have you put the car on a lift? What does the underside look like? You would be well served to buy one of those colonoscopy style inspection cameras and insert that wherever you put that magnet to see what you're really dealing with.

I'd hate to go through all the trouble of tearing apart the outer rockers just to find some mild surface rust inside. There are some great modern chemicals that can neutralize rust and stop it in it's tracks.

My non-professional .02,

bs

 

Inner sill access....
The sill drain holes are big enough to get a spray nozzle tube into. 3 or 4 per side gives a fair reach. Good idea to get underneath and make sure they are clear anyway.

Couple of other access points:
- Behind the rear inner side trim panels
- Behind the front side kick panels (might have to peel and re-glue a bit of vinyl or carpet.
- behind the splash guards at the rear of the front wheel arches.
- lower seat belt mount holes

You could always find a couple of spots to make some discreet holes, if you're not happy with how far you can reach doing the above.

 

Pray I'm not being pushy, but any chance you could load diagrams or photos for these locations on the car?

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Very timely topic. I'm about to dive into my '74 GTV again. Given the level of general concern over the rockers and sills, my plan was to use my bore scope to look at the condition of the inner sills. I had planned to bore a couple of holes at the front or back and then plug them with an appropriate sized plug.

My sills only have some very minor surface rust, and I absolutely don't want to cut them open just to inspect the inside. The jacking points are solid.

Interesting discussion. Carry on.

 

"Pray I'm not being pushy, but any chance you could load diagrams or photos for these locations on the car?"

Tomorrow, in daylight, perhaps...time is tight tomorrow for me, ..but it's 8pm and dark here now. Maybe this will clarify somewhat:
Sill drain holes: look/feel under the sill bottoms. You will see slits where water drains out. 20mm wide slits.
Rear side panels: rear-seat, interior, side trim panels, where the ash trays are. The panels come off.
Front kick panels: where your feet are, on each outer side. It's the bottom half of the A-pillar. There are holes there, behind the map bin and carpet/vinyl.
Front splash panel: behind each front wheel. They are secured by self-tapper screws. Taking them off will let you access the very front, bottom of the A-pillar and sill.
Seat belt bolt holes: reckon you've got that one covered...
Holler again, if after a look you still need a pic.

 

Oh those photos change things IMO. And now I can see why you have been asking these questions, and yes Del you were right.

Think very carefully before taking this car off the road because you will not be driving it for a while. While I might be wrong, but the lack of vertical seams in the rocker/sill area and the heavy undercoat concern me and what you might be looking at is relatively good bog job and the rocker/sill panels are not in good condition at all. So yes get one of those borascope things and have a look inside. At the minimum you are looking at the bottom of front and rear guards, and the outer rocker/sill panel on both sides.

Unfortunately there is a possibility that once you start removing paint from the rocker/sill area you will suffer sleep issues as your car will not be as nice as you think and you have just uncovered the tip of the iceberg ... and a full bare metal restoration is required.

Good luck. I'd still drive until a bubble appears because driving these cars is fun, unless you enjoy the restoration process, as a person challenge as I do.
Pete

 

Think very carefully before taking this car off the road because you will not be driving it for a while.
Pete

Come on PSK(Pete) this car should not be on the road! it's a danger to the owner and every other road user!
Steve

 

Nuts. Looks like there has been some coverup in areas, complete with overspray.

 

The job is much bigger then I thought, I would not even hazard a guess about cost involved except materials. You are probably looking at $5k in body panels alone before you even touch the car!
There is none of this wait until the paint comes off then you can tell what it it needs! Since there is a lot of filler and the sills have been merged with the lower fenders, worst case scenario this is a poorly executed cut and shut car! (see what appears like a repairs on either side of one of the front chassis rails)

You are better off finding a better shell like this one https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/d/snohomish-1972-alfa-romeo-gtv-2000/6814939691.html at $5400 (needs less work), and swap all the good parts to it, assuming your engine, gearbox and diff, and suspension and interior are in good order or just put together the best parts (you can live the green colour) This body may not need as many repairs that include chassis rails like yours etc.
Body swap probably less costly than fixing your car! as you can sell excess bits and surplus red body shell.
Steve

 

Wow... You guys reallllllly don't like this one... Looks like I'll be bonding with the panel beater this summer.
Settled, outer sills coming off, underbody paint stripped God willing... There goes all my faith in buying a museum kept car, of all places... [emoji849]

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Wow... You guys reallllllly don't like this one... Looks like I'll be bonding with the panel beater this summer.
Settled, outer sills coming off, underbody paint stripped God willing... There goes all my faith in buying a museum kept car, of all places... [emoji849]

I would not even start with this car, ask for your money back!. If not sell it.
And spend money on a better car, like this one https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1973-Al...973-Alfa-Romeo-2000-105-GTV/293012361266?hash=item4438e5d032:g:AlwAAOSwfeZcjzIM
Steve (I have no links with this company or car)