After looking at the engine R&R procedure in the factory shop manual you should have a factory tech sign off on the job. It's a procedure not for the faint of heart requiring strict attention and a highly skilled person to do it correctly. May I ask how many miles on your car and what besides the service was done?

 

The car had 11,951 miles on it...this was the two year or 20,000 mile service. It was given an oil change (second one, I first had it changed at 5000), brake flush, tire rotation, cabin filter, top off fluids, reset maintenance light...plus "customer requests multi-point inspection." NOTE: Top off fluids. The service manger called me this evening and lied to me, saying they never top off fluids. I told him that was the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Of the multi-point inspection they again signed off on everything with two notes. The first that the tires were between 4/32 and 6/32 in wear. They said it did not require immediate attention but would soon and quoted me $1200 for tires and $299 for an alignment. I declined since I have a professional tire and wheel place that I use who really know what they are doing.

I did find something on the inspection that I just noticed and that they never said anything about to me when I picked up the car...both rear shocks are leaking fluid. They quote the cost of that as $1348. Probably not as bad as a Porsche, but this is something they did not inform me about at all.

At this point Russell Westbrook is going to have hard time keeping my business...as will Alfa unless I get some real satisfaction from them. If this is Alfa's version of a comeback in the US market, I don't see them lasting another two years.

 

If this is Alfa's version of a comeback in the US market, I don't see them lasting another two years.

John, sorry to say that but you own a very expensive Fiat derivate of the FCA group. It's not an Alfa any more as it's similar with VW and Audi.

The well engineered cars of today are coming from Korea and, partly from Japan (only where no European influence / stake holding exists).

I've worked several years for BMW and know very well how all went down. And it's even worse with some other manufacturers.

Btw, FCA is going to merge with PSA of France, which will get things even worse for the future. They already signed an agreement.

 

Did you buy the car from this dealership? Is that why you had the multi point inspection? If so, I'd ask the dealership for your money back.

 

...... If so, I'd ask the dealership for your money back.

He did...They refused

 

Seems to me you have a case to address with the Regional (Factory) Alfa Service Rep. You are pounding water uphill with that dealer. At worst, you know you have the ear of someone with authority to make things right. You didn't mention the model.

 

Seems to me you have a case to address with the Regional (Factory) Alfa Service Rep.

Here in California, there's another entity that might help you: the Bureau of Automotive Repair. Westbrook can ignore one individual's complaint, but it's tough to ignore a state agency. Don't know if BAR would pursue your case - allowing poor people to get around smog tests seems to be their primary charter - but you can certainly file a complaint against Westbrook through them. See: Welcome to the BAR Online Complaint Form - California Department of Consumer Affairs

 

I took my Giulia in for an oil change @23,000 and brought the oil, filter, and crush ring that I got from Centerline. I didn't have any "oil change required" or any other warnings from the car I just wanted to for sure, positively know when the oil was changed so I'd know when it needed it again. They did a point inspection but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near 100 points and my bill was eighty something bucks. I know I'll get an up front price if they want to do anything near a 100 point inspection.

 

Did you pay the bill with a credit card? If so, contact the credit card and dispute the bill.

 

Well Alfa customer service has proved to be no help. I have bumped this up to asking Alfa to buy the car back.

 

I have had dealings with only three Alfa dealerships, but that was in the seventies, eighties and nineties. All three were top notch. One in particular, Archway Motors in St. Louis, was exceptional. But that was a long time ago.

Quite frankly, after what happened to you, I would not want anyone from that dealership to build a new engine for the car.

As Eric suggest, contact your credit card company. You also have another avenue and that is contacting a lawyer. If Alfa agreed to rebuild the motor, that is admission of responsibility.

I hope for the best resolution for you.

 

Sounds like who ever owned it before you ran the **** out of it. That happens and I feel for you. However I bought my car new and it now has 29,000 mi on it and has been perfect in every way and the dealer in the north part of Denver has been excellent. Well trained and professional. And as far as Alfa being just like VW and Audi drive those cars and then drive the Giulia. Alfa is still Alfa in every way.

 

Sounds like who ever owned it before you ran the **** out of it. That happens and I feel for you. However I bought my car new and it now has 29,000 mi on it and has been perfect in every way and the dealer in the north part of Denver has been excellent. Well trained and professional. And as far as Alfa being just like VW and Audi drive those cars and then drive the Giulia. Alfa is still Alfa in every way.

I got my car new as well. It has 11,951 mi on it and it was perfect in every way...until the turbo sucked all the coolant into the engine, and now is it worth nothing. Even with a new, dealer installed, engine, I won't keep the car. First I am asking Alfa to buy it back or replace it.

 

Amazing rose tinted backwards glancing glasses. Or spectacles perhaps more appropriately. The current FCA Giulia is so superior in build quality to practically any previous Alfa it is truly remarkable to read these complaints as indicating decline and fall of a great marque. The 164 was a big stride forward in quality from Alfas of yore. But nowhere near current levels. If you've driven a PSA product recently and still think they're awful you're in for s big surprise. Both the Peugeot and the sister Citroen products are wonderful to drive. We should be lucky enough to get some over here. Part of the problem is the market expectations. Sure a Hyundai is a very fine quality automobile but very few of them are any good to drive and they are all butt ugly.

Time to get real here. The Giulia is a brilliant car. End of.

 

Amazing rose tinted backwards glancing glasses. Or spectacles perhaps more appropriately. The current FCA Giulia is so superior in build quality to practically any previous Alfa it is truly remarkable to read these complaints as indicating decline and fall of a great marque. The 164 was a big stride forward in quality from Alfas of yore. But nowhere near current levels. If you've driven a PSA product recently and still think they're awful you're in for s big surprise. Both the Peugeot and the sister Citroen products are wonderful to drive. We should be lucky enough to get some over here. Part of the problem is the market expectations. Sure a Hyundai is a very fine quality automobile but very few of them are any good to drive and they are all butt ugly.

Time to get real here. The Giulia is a brilliant car. End of.

I never said the Giulia was a bad car, I said that the dealership and the company are as bad as they were in the past. And young car buyers today know nothing about the history of Alfa and could care less. If only 15% of Italians drive Italian cars, that is very clear handwriting on the wall. Combing French and Italian car makers with a touch of Chrysler is like combining colon, bone, and lung cancer. My engine didn't blow because of a mechanical failure, it was destroyed by a dealer technician failure and they Alfa and the dealer are making it worse.

 

The Giulia isn't based on any chassis, not Audi, or whatever. Alfa started with a blank sheet of paper and it shows. My Giulia is the best car I've ever owned in every way. I've got just over 25k on the clock and it still looks like it just came off the showroom floor and almost smells like it. I'd start building a relationship with Alfa US and see if that helps. I get the impression they want Alfa to succeed here and hopefully they will work with you. From what you have said it sounds like dealer human error and not a factory fault. Your 600 bucks sounds like what small claims courts are here for. I'd look into that, sounds like you have a bulletproof case. Good luck!

 

New engine. No cost. Sounds good to me. In fact my Jaguar got a new engine within the first two years, runs like a train.

 

From you lips to God's ear.

 

Hello John,
Sorry to hear you are having such a terrible experience with your car. Do you know what causes the failure and how come you are thinking it's the dealer's fault? I hope it all works out well and Alfa takes care of this asap.
BTW, that dealer has some horrible online reviews, you definitely need to get Alfa NA involved in this.

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Well the car was working perfectly when I took it in for a routine service...oil change, brake fluid flush, cabin filter, and top up all fluids. I said I also want the full inspection...it actually comes to 50 items. Again, in this inspection, all the fluids are also checked...including the very obvious turbo coolant tank. So three and a half hours later I was given my car back and I drop it home (2 miles from dealership)...parked it, and did not use it until two days later. When I started the car there were no lights giving me any reason to worry about anything. But a mile later (maybe a mile and a half at most) the car shut down. I opened the hood and the turbo coolant tank was completely empty. I find it very very very hard to accept that this is a total coincidence and has nothing to do with the service. They also, on the check list, noted that both my rear shocks were leaking, but they made no mention of this to me when the gave me the car. They did mention that my tires were getting down there, but not at the replacement wear state. I just the dealer's behavior to be unacceptable. And I am very disappointed with the effort Alfa's nation customer service people have given me. Only when I said I want Alfa to buy the car back did they then transfer me to another division of customer service but they have not contacted me yet. I will not keep this particular car, period. If the dealership had been more honest and professional, and if Alfa had the regional service rep inspect the dealer's work and sign off that the new engine was installed to factory specs...I would have considered it. But I will not take this dealership's word that the work has been done properly. I think Alfa is going to crash and burn in the American market...for the third time. Three strikes and you are out.

 

John, I don't know anything about the new cars. Does the turbo have it's own cooling system? Do they flush the cooling system as part of the routine service?

 

Modern turbos have oil fed to the bearing and a coolant jacket surrounding the oil fed bearing. Early turbos relied on oil for cooling and bearing separation (the turbo spins at incredibly high speeds do oil flow is the critical factor, not pressure). As power outputs and turbine speeds increased it was found beneficial to cool the entire bearing housing with the engine cooling system. Electric pumps were added to circulate coolant for a short period after engine shutdown. Previous to that innovation it was recommended to idle the engine for at least 30 seconds before shutting it down. Parking your car at usual parking speeds usually satisfied this recommendation.

Coolant can't really get inside the engine combustion chambers from the turbo cooling jacket. Oil, yes, but not the coolant. Most likely source of coolant loss into the combustion chambers would be via a failed head gasket. These failures are exceptionally rare these days. Whenever you buy used one can never be sure the engine has not been maltreated. They cannot be overrevved any longer because the automatic transmission won't allow it. They can be neglected though.

John's complaint is a little odd since Alfa installed a brand new engine under warranty (Alfa will want that old engine for examination anyway). I also do not understand the reference to a turbo coolant tank. Formerly turbo water cooling was tied into the engine main cooling system with no separate header tank for the turbo. There's no water/ air intercooler which often does have a separate cooling system for the intercooler, Alfa uses air to air intercooler AFAIK. There will be a separate pump to circulate coolant during engine stop cycles in the stop start system but that shouldn't be separate from the main cooling system.

So, two mysteries: how coolant lost to the engine got into the combustion chambers and destroyed the engine and why an Alfa customer remains dissatisfied with a warranty covered replacement new engine. What else is Alfa supposed to do?

 

Edit function didn't save so I reposted edits below

 

Ahaa. Apparently Alfa Giulia does use an air to water (then to air of course) intercooler. If these fail then coolant can get sucked into the engine very, very rapidly. The intercooler matrix is inside the air housing passing compressed air to cool it between compression and intake to the cylinders. These typically fail rather suddenly. They also typically use entirely separate cooling system to maximize charge cooling efficiency. Important trivia, these circuits cannot overheat, unlike engine systems and if the coolant empties onto the ground the engine just loses power, not fails. The intercooler failure in that situation would cause the boost control software to reduce engine power, by a lot. If these intercoolers are not losing coolant on the ground then it's going inside the engine. If the matrix fails nobody would know until the engine started to stutter. You've got minutes or maybe even seconds to shut down and even if you do the engine will be damaged by coolant inside the combustion chambers. A new engine is pretty much the only repair. The key to understanding this type of failure is it likely could not have been observed in time to prevent the failure. Alfa will most definitely want this trashed engine and if it is the intercooler that failed one of their parts suppliers is about to receive a distressing phone call: eh, Francesco, gets your a $ $ over here, subito, bring money.

 

As stated in the beginning of thread, while I appreciate Alfa replacing the engine, I do not have faith in the dealer doing the work so that the car is at the same level that it was when it left the factory. Since Alfa won't provide a factory regional service tech to inspect the work before the car is returned to me, I will have to inspect the work myself at the dealership. And I will be very very picky. In my conversations with Alfa customer service I was told that Alfa has had to make other engine replacements...how many they were vague about but the feeling I got from them is that it is more than just a few. Makes me think of the Porsche 996/997 IMS bearing disaster that ended up in a class action suit that had Porsche sending crates full of engines all over the country. Time will tell, but as I said, either Alfa buys this car back or I will unload it myself within a day or two after getting it back.

 

At the front of the turbocharger, there are ports for connecting the coolant inlet (2) and coolant outlet (1) of the low temperature cooling system.
From what I can tell from the shop manual it would be really hard to mess this up. If you are still talking to the dealer I would insist on them showing you what caused this to happen. If they don't pass that along to the corporate customer people.

 

OK, now we really are getting into the realm of the impossible. No matter how whacky the mechanic is who installs the new engine you just are not going to be able to tell if the job was done correctly or not. Basically the new engine is going to be installed correctly or it won't run.

Your service shop is correct, nobody tops up fluids these days. Check levels by glancing at the translucent or transparent top up tanks sure but actually top up? No. Any need to top up necessarily means a fault needs diagnosis. Apart from oil and washer fluid I have not topped up any fluids for many years.

You suffered an unlucky coincidence. A service visit followed by an intercooler failure. End of.

 

The receipt for the service specifically notes "Top off fluids." So somebody does top off fluids. And when they are asked to inspect fluids and they report no sign of losing fluids, and the fluid tank has a cap for use in topping off, then I can only conclude that there was negligence from the dealer service staff. At this point we are all beating a dead horse. I have already contested the service bill with B of A. And I have initiated the request for Alfa to buy the car back, or replace it. I am guessing they will not do it.

When they tell me to come pick up the car, I will carefully inspect it to make sure it is presentable enough to quickly unload on some other dealer as a trade in. I will tell them about the replacement engine and I will let them do battle with Alfa if problems arise.

My interest in Alfa Romeos began in 1977. I've owned an Alfetta sedan, a 74 GTV, an 85 GTV 6, a Milano Verde and a Platinum, a 164 L, a 1992 Spider Veloce, two Alfa vintage race cars ('58 Spider Veloce, 65 Giulia Sprint GT) and now the Giulia TI Lusso. I make go backwards and pick up a 70s era Spider since they are still reasonably priced...but I would use private mechanics and parts suppliers for that.

However I have no more interest in any new Alfas because I do not think the company capable of supporting what it builds. This is what destroyed them in the past, and it is what will destroy them again.

 

I am surprised there aren't any sensors in those reservoirs to would indicate the coolant is low.

 

Because they do not leak. They never get hot enough. If the leak is important then the engine is going to be damaged before the sensor can indicate anything useful to the driver. Low oil pressure and overheating warnings are similarly not very useful. Brake fluid level indicators are useful. Oddly, I've never seen one on any of my cars because I routinely glance at all the translucent reservoirs in my car every time I open the hood, which these days is only to refill the washer fluid!

 

Hi john

Sorry to hear of your issues....
My experience of Alfa offering a replacement engine, admittedly in the '90s and in UK, due to a manufacturing fault was a rebuilt unit, not new! I suggest you check/enquire as to what you are getting....

good luck

Richard