Mike -
We simply do not know about the "reliability" of the 4C as none of us have owned one. Because they are a new release (in Europe only at this time), and then only to a select few, there is no established history.
That said, I'm relatively certain that the members of this forum have various opinions regarding the reliability of Alfas, in general...varies with models, level of maintenance, etc.
I know this probably does not help....

 

I own nothing else but Alfas. Not a 4C, but have used 164s as my daily drivers since 1993 with great success. Reliability wise, the modern era Alfas compete with the best, in my opinion. I wouldn't expect anything less from the 4C.

 

It depends on what you call reliability. IMHO the Evora and the Elise are reliable cars and the 4C should be similar. If you expect the 4C to be similar to a Honda Civic, it won't be. It will be more comparable to a modern Ferrari or Maserati. If reliability is the first thought that comes to your mind regarding the 4C, this won't be the car for you.

 

It depends on what you call reliability.

Indeed, and as we've established elsewhere in the 4C subforum, a car that needs regular maintenance could be said to be "unreliable".

In my little world, there are no unreliable cars on the market today, including Alfa Romeos, but I'm sure there are plenty of anecdotes "proving" me wrong.

 

Don't believe what you hear on Top Gear. Alfas are as reliable as any other car and better than some. Alfa engines in particular have always been pretty much indestructible. Keeping them maintained by an experienced mechanic will ensure a long life. You couldn't go wrong with a 4C in my opinion. I think they would be more user friendly than a Lotus in terms of getting in and out of them, going by what I have read. As far as the fun factor goes, Alfas are well and truly at the top of the list.

 

Whoever takes car buying advice from Top Gear UK must be considered mentally unstable or already looking for an excuse - any excuse - not to own one.

The local Lotus crowd are among the funniest in that respect. Their forum project threads are invariably about fixing all the little things Lotus didn't get right, like engine cooling and electrics, all the while claiming Alfa's got a bad reliability record and that it must be a complete nightmare owning one.

They are worse than Alfisti. Quite a feat

 

As others have pointed out - this model is truly new - so the absence of a design/reliability flaw, though likely, remains to be proven. And since the 4C is built in the Maserati factory, and sold at our domestic Maserati boutiques..

..making the effort to speak to current Maserati owners in your area, particularly regarding their judgement of how well a dealer has addressed their problems (if any, ahem..) would probably give you a good indication of how happy you would be with a 4C.

Different sites can provide very different levels of service, usually dependent on the degree to which the service manager advocates for the customer, typically in opposition to the sales group, which never wants to p*ss off the factory. I worked at an Alfa dealer and saw this happen regularly. A willingness to recall the factory service rep. to address a customer's (legitimate..) complaint was paramount in establishing a reputation for good service and creating repeat customers.

Ask how Maserati owners feel they've been treated when factory warranty work arises and "intermittent" electrical (and other) gremlins resist diagnosis.

 

Well, my Fiat Abarth with over 190whp has been perfectly reliable. I see no reason the 4C shouldn't be as well.

Greg,
Silicone Hose Kits
Fiat 500 ABARTH Performance Parts - from Hi Performance Store, Inc.
OKINJECTORS--Gasoline and Diesel Injector Cleaning, Rebuild, Overhaul, and Testing Services

 

We're talking about a car that hasn't been released yet, right? So how could anybody know about reliability at this point in time? Well, actually we do know - to date, the production version of the 4C is 100% reliable - there are zero reported failures by customers.

In all seriousness, the 164 comparison is probably a good one. The 4C will most likely be modern day reliable, it will start and run well every day, until it doesn't. At which point you will take it to a dealership and pray it's still under warranty, because it will probably command Maserati repair prices from the Maserati dealers it's sold through.

I'm curious about the Lotus unreliability issues mentioned. The Elise has a Toyota Celica motor, what breaks on these cars?

bs

 

I'm curious about the Lotus unreliability issues mentioned. The Elise has a Toyota Celica motor, what breaks on these cars?

Early Elises had the 1.8 Rover K-series engine which had a reputation for overheating and blowing its headgasket. Apart from that it's a pretty nice engine. The Elise isn't unreliable as such, but it has its own set of gremlins most owners eventually sort out.

Like some Alfas, owners love them not for their build quality but all the other things that makes up a car

 

I don't know about other countries, but in Australia you don't actually have to take your car to a dealer for warranty servicing, despite what they would have you believe. Most car dealers over charge and cut corners on servicing. If I bought a new Alfa, I would take it to my own Alfa mechanic for servicing because I trust him 100%.

 

Here in the US, you can take your car to the dealership or any 'factory authorized service center'. It's that 'factory authorized' thing thing that get's you, there aren't many independent shops that are willing to go through the trouble and expense to become factory authorized to perform warranty repairs.

bs

 

A neighbour of mine got screwed by the dealer when the timing belt broke on his 2006 Fiat Punto diesel, well within the warranty period. The cause was premature failure of the water pump and they refused to cover it on the grounds that the water pump was a consumable item. They then replaced the belt without checking the state of the valves and naturally discovered that they were bent and had to start again. They fixed the valves, but didn't put a new belt on. They magnanimously charged him "trade price" for the parts, leaving him out of pocket to the tune of somewhere around $2,000. Later on there was a coolant leak and he was told that they couldn't find the source and they would have to remove the engine to find it. The alternator also had a fault and they said that was an engine out job too and the alternator would have to come from Italy. That was the last straw and he took the car to my mechanic who took five minutes to find that the water leak was due to a cracked joint on a metal pipe, caused by the fact that the dealer had failed to reconnect a bracket that held it onto the cylinder head. It took him 20 minutes to weld it up and bolt the bracket on properly. My mechanic then got a new alternator from his auto electrician who had one on the shelf because it was the same as a Holden/Vauxhaul Vectra. He replaced that without removing the engine.

It is sad that the dealer operates like that and so unnecessary. Fortunately we have quite a few independent Alfa mechanics here and now that we have two dealers in town, the first might have to improve their act. That sort of bs is not confined to Alfa dealers from what I have heard over the years.

 

the engine isnt in other Alfas, this is updated Giulietta engine , now full aluminun.

 

Alfas are in my opinion and experience reliable if properly maintained and used also (not left standing for lots of time). As pointed out the mechanicals of the engine gearbox/suspension are lifted from the Giulietta (with an aluminum engine) with some alteration so that will give some guidance.
However....personally I do not know how well the carbon fibre body will hold up to everyday use and if for example the bodywork is dented I hope they have kits/apparatus to fix it. If something more extensive is required in which a panel was cracked (since carbon fibre does not bend usually) I would imagine the repair would not be quick since you cannot go down to the local "autoclave" and would not suspect one at your local dealer ....and the cost to fix not cheap at all.

 

Alfas are in my opinion and experience reliable if properly maintained and used also (not left standing for lots of time).

... which is true for any car.

I've driven my 2010 Giulietta for 64,000 kms (about 40k miles) without any major hiccups. Still firm, no rattles, no leaks and nothing has come loose, although there's the odd squeak from the suspension in damp weather. All the small niggles I had on my 147, 156 and 166 just haven't showed up, despite being driven just as much and in the same manner (according to the missus: like a maniac with the hair on fire). Can't speak for other G owners though. I'm sure there are horror stories out there, just like with any other marque and model.

If the quality control on the 4C is anything like on the Giulietta, there shouldn't be much to worry about. Then again, some people seem to get off on worrying.

 

that said the raison d'etre of buying the car is the carbon fibre tub/body in my opinion so i am sure Alfa will have solutions to all problems that may occur either mechanical or bodywise to make sure the car is reliable as this is an image car also

 

....i meant carbon related bits since the body is not all carbon fibre

 

There is absolutly nothing common between Giulietta and 4C.
You cannot compare the quality and the way they are built.
4C is handmade, not a mass production car .
But the 4C makes a lot of fun to drive and it's incredible fast . 4C remember me to a Ferrari F40 ...a little bit smaller. But same feeling when driving.

 

There is absolutly nothing common between Giulietta and 4C.

That's of course true engineering-wise, but the quality control, the attention to detail and the production planning is important with regard to the end result. My point was that this has improved a lot over the last 10 years. My 147 was okay wrt quality, but my Giulietta is way ahead.

On a side note: a 4C is definitely not a Giulietta turned backwards. There is in fact no "backwards" on a Giacosa-style transaxle 1750, and the suspension and geometry is fundamentally different between the two. Please don't start any urban legends ...

 

The Alfa 4c is hand assembled but the running gear from the Alfa 4c is taken from the Giulietta whole...as a US magazine wrote....in my opinion I agree....the 4C was built around that running gear for cost reasons just turned back to front. The carbon fibre tub is the very expensive part and we have all seen how it is put together on the siite video I guess.
It is ironic that the the uk magazine road tests do not from what I read much like the giulietta bits...complaining of the drone of the engine and the still lagged turbo plus the steering being vague on initial lock and the shift when you are not "on it" not up to scratch. Still a work in progress i remember reading....that can be spectacular. I reserve my judgement until I can drive it because it is still a mini exotic and I love the styling and the carbon tub and unassisted steering concept ...i am sure it will only improve

 

The gearbox is from the Giulietta JTDM TCT . A little modified.
Engine is new.only few components are from the old 1750tbi. But the most important thing with the engine is the place where it is sitting. Turbo system behind the seats. This brings a lot of heat there.
And the gearbox is the reason why the engine power is not higher. TCT possible max torque is only 350nm.

 

Torw...marketing of Alfa romeo rightly says the 4C is a different car from the rest of the range and with the carbon tub and unassisted steering that is true. However Alfa Romeo surely took the Giulietta's 1750 turbo engine as a base and made it lighter (aluminium)/tuned it more, and "evolved" as they put it the macpherson struts that were on the front of the Giulietta ....on the 4c they are at the rear instead of the front like in the Giulietta...hence my saying back to front. Of course they adapt the components for the car but they are based on the same parts in existing Alfas. Regarding that suspension as a backnote ....as Richard Harris said on his review....Alfa spent so much money on the carbon tub...and it is expensive...but the rear suspension could have been made optimum too, in my belief inferring it should have been double wishbone like at the front too. Cost, that is why and not because of the excuse given of no room. That TCT gearbox is straight off the Giulietta/Alfa parts bin but redeveloped for non-assistance and with no manual option again because to develop a manual version would cost more and perceived takeup of a manual car would not be high from the sources I read. Anyhow the prototype lights were not allowed in production because of the cost which in my opinion shows how much of a tight budget the designers had after going with the expensive carbon tub.

Back to thread I am sure the Alfa 4C will be a very reliable car and be as good as the Giulietta or any other Alfa Romeo and will get better as time goes on also

 

We could discuss this until the cows come home, but I'm withholding judgement until I've actually driven the thing.

While there's no shortage of people longing for a V6, more horsepower, a manual transmission, "better" suspension, a different steering wheel, more options, less options, different colours, different seats, softer seats, harder seats, different exhaust and different looks, we've still got a new, incomparable, inexpensive, light, fast, mid-engined, rear wheel drive Alfa Romeo sportscar.

For internet armchair experts like me, that's pretty cool.

 

hey hey TorW since I am an internet armchair expert also without having driven the 4C i cannot either give subjective comments on whether i personally like the drive...and all people/magazines like the captivating looks and unique features the car does have....however the magazines I personally value as guides did not give a great comment on the car overall as it stands this moment (evo to name one)....as an alfa lover I would like the car to be "untouchable" in terms of performance and handling from all reviewers which I am sure it will be in future.

 

I have owned a total of eleven Alfas since 1968. I have driven more than 600,000 miles and have come to the conclusion that the newer cars are much more reliable than the 1950-1960's cars. I believe that the 4C will be more expensive to repair due to the carbon fiber chassis compared to Alfas that were sold in the US. A turbo engine will generate more heat than a conventional engine and wiring and rubber hoses will deteriorate faster. I believe that the car will be more expensive to drive than Alfas sent to the US, but this car has more performance then previous Post War Alfas.

 

4C

The 4C is expensive to drive. The first maintenance aftere 20.000km takes about 6,5hours of work. All the srews , nuts and bolts of the whole chassis have to be controlled. And for this work you have to disassemble most of the body parts.

 

The carbon fibre tub in the Alfa 4C is an exotic piece of kit. Hopefully that the car will be so fun to drive that maintenance after 20,000 km will take place within the warranty period and that first check will be hopefully at reduced cost to the customer. I guess the cost issues will affect second or third owners more...again since any major issues from new presumably will be protected for a while under warranty.

I hope the modern Alfa Romeo 4C mechanicals are heavy duty and will be a highmark in terms of reliability and longevity.

 

.....Regarding the Alfa Romeo mechanical bits I think those designed under Alfa as a marque (until the 75/Milano) were more reliable than more modern alfas in my opinion. The classic twin cam for example was overengineered and the bottom end of that unit was very sturdy and could be used with little or no alteration for racing. The non alfa designed blocks used after were in my opinion not remotely the same. Modern cost development does not allow for that overengineering as in the past. I just hope as I said that the engine of the 4C...head and block ...are built to a level that is a highpoint of the modern alfas and that this is perpetuated for upcoming alfa romeos

 

Have you actually heard of people who have had problems with the bottom ends of modern Alfa engines? I haven't heard of any myself. The old twin cams are certainly reliable and well built but I know several people who have had pistons exit the crankcase of professionally built engines.

 

oz3litre...yes I sure have but also with the last of the production 3 litre v6 engines produced for the alfa 75 as related to me by someone who used them with others on road and track. As I said I am hoping the 4C mechanicals will be heavy duty for longevity/reliability.

 

How reliable do you expect a cam-belted, highly boosted, four-cylinder all aluminum turbo engine to be? An Italian one, no less?

 

For long term ownership if your concerned then just buy an extended warranty...

Purchased during the original warranty period it's usually relatively inexpensive.