[aguirola]

My GTAm restoration has been extremely lengthy and complex. All the parts have been made to look as in the origin, nuts and bolts re plated in the proper finish, even with a Lucas "bomb" in the trunk, if not functional, yet made to look the part.
I can assure you though, that it is/will be, extremely faithful.
I have restored a variety of cars and IMHO, restoration is just that, returning a car to its original specs and look, barring some safety standards that simply would not be acceptable today for obvious reasons in a competition car.
A GTAm should have rivets on the fenders, gloriously displayed, otherwise, what is the point? The pointy lights at the bumper location should be glass, straight from a Mini Innocenti, white, not an orange plastic doodad.

Can you just imagine GTA without the hundreds of rivets? Could be done, of course, but how lame...

Tommy, you are absolutely right, at a vintage Ferrari concours, they are merciless, and that is what it is all about. FIDELITY.

I think a Duetto looks nicer/prettier with other wheels, but at an event you better show up with steel wheels and hubcaps.

As an added bonus, a "faithfully restored car, will always be worth more than an otherwise over/under/badly done car, no matter what great history it might have.

It is almost as bad as showing up to your wedding with brown Topsiders...

I applaud your constructive observations, and I apologize for bumping the thread, but this is a crucial issue in having our cars look "period" correct.

Of course, it's your car, and if you prefer it however you deem correct, then, be my guest.

Regards, Alberto

 

[Veep]

""The pointy lights at the bumper location should be glass, straight from a Mini Innocenti, white, not an orange plastic doodad"" there you go wrong, the lights are from another (other Alfa model) source. (if we are nitpicking on details)

but this is exactly (part 0f) my statement: what is correct? Autodelta used several models oil catch tanks, just depending on if Julio or Gianni made it...

about Ferrari`s: there really was a time that old Ferrari`s were treated exactly the same way as old Alfas are now (by some). Maybe that was better instead of throwing endless amounts of money to it and losing the soul of the car in a overrestoration..
I love Ferraris`but have no connection anymore with a big part of the bunch people who are calling themselves ""ferraristi"" but besides money to buy and "'restore"" them have no real understanding what driving these cars is about (or even can not really drive such a car).
but that is another discussion.

 

[Berlinista]

first and last, they are CARS, and the most important is that they are USED and DRIVEN. I love to see historic racing cars DRIVEN. If that means they aren't 100% correct, so be it. Rather that than 100% correct shown on some lawn somewhere.
And if the owner has only the budget to have it 90% correct yet he races it, instead of showing it, I'll gladly applaud him.
KenGTA did a wonderful job on his yellow GTA, including the period correct spoiler/splitter. That the splitter is butt ugly is no matter, that it isn't original Alfa, no matter. It's period correct and what's more: He's actually DRIVING it.
Great!
I'm fitting up an admittedly REPLICA GTam, and indeed not making everything correct, because of working on a budget. But hey, it will be raced, it will be run, people will be able to see it in action with a very good driver.
I know of some 100% correct GTams out there. Unrestored, 100% as they came off the track back in the early '70's.
Very crappy shoddy cars, disinterestingly built up in everything but their mechanicals. They look like junk, but that was EXACTLY how Autodelta built them. Ever seen how Autodelta hacked up the rear fenders to fit the wide arches? A 10 minute job at the most. But yeah, original. Cars nowadays are restored so much that there's nothing original left the driver back then EVER touched.
And putting one of these totally original GTams on the lawn at Pebble really wouldn't touch off a spark. You also wouldn't pass scrutineering at any event here.
As long as anyone does his best within his budget restraints, I'm all in favor!
Also, most of these cars like the one we're talking about, are 'rolling projects'. Good chance if you see it next year it'll look far better.
Rik

 

[donrencos]

Anybody should rebuild bis Car in a Way to please himself - not others. Unless you do it just for business, you have to like it. I think a car has more Value when it has a history and also represents this specific history - and not a so called "periodic correct restauration" according to some books.
The GTA I'm restoring will have broad fenders - because this car had them in the 70ies when it was writing its own racinghistory - Even if a narrow Car would Be nicer. Each car was updated individually while in action, so its hard to tell what would becorrect and what not.

I don't like much people pointing at every screw and telling me if its original or not....

P.S. We have a Duetto since over 30years in our family - with 70ties Ronal Aluminium wheels - nobody ever complained yet, that they are not original ;-)

The Cars are for driving, not for just Standing like in the catalogue.

 

[UlrichGTA]

Hallo,

i was at Zandvoort also and saw the car.its allright, that i dont spent much time to look at it,more to the GTA beside . So he look like a normal GT made to a racecar. I dont have radar eyes to see its engine, so i am really astonished about a 4 valve engine. Till now, i thought, that the 4-valve engine was not homologated for GTAm? but i will learn , perhas a Group 5 conversion.
Generally, its the decision of every owner to presentate his car like he want. All the new made ... GTAms are perfect with polished,uncolored poprivets!!!!! never saw such a GTAm in period .Allmost every parts is made new nowadays , so the worth of the original parts will decreese. But to much patina its the same badlooking like some cars from eastern Europe.
i think the right mixture between patina/ originality and new items like FIA conferm seats to race today would be correct.

Allmost the people, who never have self cars, are the policemens and counts every correct screws, but never have the cost of a period correct restauration.
These timewaisters are present at every meeting, often knowing the cars better than the owners!!!
regards
Uli

 

[aguirola]

Hey guys, you are all correct and right .
They are your, and our cars, and we can all do whatever we want with them.
It mostly is based on freedom of expression and whatever makes you happy.
It is as simple as that.

Kind regards,

Alberto

 

[italcarguy]

Its amazing how the rare Alfa owners don't restore their cars to period correct.

One thing you need to consider too is that period correct restorations weren't as big a deal 10-20 years ago as they are now...at least in the GTA world. A lot of cars were converted to street use or left as a race car except repainted in the traditional Alfa red.

Pime example is my GTA which was restored in 1985 to a way it never ran; white body color with full interior while still retaining its full race prepared running gear and suspension. I guess you can say it was restored for dual purpose use? Now, fast forward 26 years to my current ownership. Yes, it bugs the hell out of me that I have GTA with loads of race history going back to day one and it's not restored to any of the liveries it was raced in. If the car was a beat up non runner, I would take it apart and restore it back to how it was raced in the early 70's. Since it's still in such good condition, for now I just re-did the stickers to how it ran back in the day. In a few years when it's starting to get real tired, I'll rip it apart and bring it back to it's former glory. Until then, I'm just going to race the piss out of it.

 

[PSk]

The simple reason is in many cases these Alfas have never stopped racing, or being driven ...

Pete

 

[F1 Tommy]

You all make very good points. I guess alot of the perfectly restored Ferrari race cars do become garage queens. It would be nice to see more GTAM's and GTA's restored to their former glory. GTAM's especially are rare to see in period correct configuration.

 

[aguirola]

The simple reason is in many cases these Alfas have never stopped racing, or being driven ...

Pete

My Jr.Z racecar, has undergone an engine bay repaint and a few touch ups here and there, and although not a GTA, it looks really presentable and clean.
I think it is a matter of pride in your car.

Regards, Alberto

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

You all make very good points. I guess alot of the perfectly restored Ferrari race cars do become garage queens. It would be nice to see more GTAM's and GTA's restored to their former glory. GTAM's especially are rare to see in period correct configuration.

Hello Tom,

Thanks for your words. I appreciate that and agree with you. It would be nice to see more GTAm´s and GTA´s (maybe even a GTA-SA) restored to their former glory. And in time, they will be! Look at the car Ken Geiger has restored. Patience is the word in my opinion.
Another GTAm besides the one we are talking about is sitting in a garage in Amsterdam as we speak (chassisnumber #1530848). It is totally in the condition when it was bought by the current owner back in the mid seventies from Alfa Romeo Nederland (the Dutch Alfa Romeo importer). The owner told me that the car will be his `pension` because it is in such an original state. Last time (10 years ago) the engine was out (he has more than one original GTAm engine `lying around`). Let`s see what happens when that car `surfaces`! But it will take patience.

Ciao! Olaf

 

[F1 Tommy]

Here is a question to everyone, do you know wich chassis came in second and won its class at Spa in 1970?? It was red and number #25 in the race. The drivers were Pinto/Berger. Autodelta only raced a few red 1750 GTAM's in 1970 so not many to choose from. Was it #1531230, 1530782, 1530848 or another??


Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

 

[vsharp]

Here is a question to everyone, do you know wich chassis came in second and won its class at Spa in 1970?? It was red and number #25 in the race. The drivers were Pinto/Berger. Autodelta only raced a few red 1750 GTAM's in 1970 so not many to choose from. Was it #1531230, 1530782, 1530848 or another??


Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

Interesting that you say only a few red ones in 1970 to choose from; I've never thought about it from that point of veiw. #1531068 (red, build Feb '70)came to Australia out of the future Museum basement storage area, and was a very used , worn out example requiring total rebuilding before being ready to race in the '71 season here. Nothing so far has been uncovered about any previous European history, maybe only a test/practice mule; but it would be nice to know. I doubt that very many GTAm's were ever in the Museum storage area, but nobody currently connected with the Museo Storico can give any difinitve answer; - only to say that there must have been some reason. I am still hopeful that someone connected with the factory/Autodelta in 1970 can recall something.....if anyone has any ideas or who to talk to??
Cheers,
Vince.

 

[AlfaRonny]

A picture of #25 I bought a couple of years ago, and a few I took myself during one of the SpaItalia meetings.
Same car ?? Pity I didn't think of picturing the chassis# then.
Ronny

 

[AlfaRonny]

About #1531068, I found these pictures somewhere on the net (don't remember where).
The presentation of the car in March '71 at "Artarmon"
Vince, do you have any info on "Artarmon" ??

 

[vsharp]

About #1531068, I found these pictures somewhere on the net (don't remember where).
The presentation of the car in March '71 at "Artarmon"
Vince, do you have any info on "Artarmon" ??

Hey Ronny, good one! I've never seen these pictures before. Thank you very much.
Artarmon is a suburb of Sydney, presumably where the Foley Alfa dealership was. I'm guessing from these pics that this was the formal unveiling of Foley's "new" GTAm, I'll show them to him to confirm. This is its rebuilt and repainted form ready for the start of the season. This is about where all known photos that I can find of the car begin. I've not been able to find a picture of as it arrived here; as described by Foley: "dull, stone-chipped, tired and worn out with some bits of old stickers on. We took it away quickley to tidy it up before any sponsors saw it. Never did get any reply from Alfa about where all the money paid for our brand new car went..."
So from the Museum storage December '70, to here in March '71. I wonder what was during the rest of '70 to get it to that worn out condition??.....

 

[vsharp]

A picture of #25 I bought a couple of years ago, and a few I took myself during one of the SpaItalia meetings.
Same car ?? Pity I didn't think of picturing the chassis# then.
Ronny

If this was 2010, I saw this car too. Not correct engine, drivetrain etc. I'm pretty sure it was just a look-alike. Looked pretty on track, engine went bang halfway thru the weekend as I recall !!

 

[AlfaRonny]

Here's where I found the pictures:
Chesterfield Filter (cigarette brand) Alfa Romeo racing car, Artarmon
Copyright M. Wilmott

 

[AlfaRonny]

If this was 2010, I saw this car too. Not correct engine, drivetrain etc. I'm pretty sure it was just a look-alike. Looked pretty on track, engine went bang halfway thru the weekend as I recall !!

That was in 2006. I didn't go last year.
Here's the same car in 2007

 

[AlfaRonny]

I was in Spa 2008, but seems my pictures are lost.
2009 & 2011. I didn't picture it, can't recall if it was present.
There were other things that attracted my attention...