Same thing happened to me but on the board, said they were genuine Italian made Weber 45s. I now have a sweet set of Spanish made Weber 45s.

 

While on the topic, what are the main differences between the original Italian webers and the new Spanish ones?

I just missed out on getting a set of freshly rebuilt 45DCOE 12s, which my mechanic said were the right carbs to get for a warm 105.

Looks like I'll end up getting new ones, which I believe are the DCOE 152?

 

AFAIK, the differences between 45 DCOE 12 and 14 are just in the jetting, so the carbs could still be a good deal. The only slightly expensive variation in the models is the venture.

I've got a small box of various jets for my webers - weather differences, summer gasoline, the occasional racing fuel tankful, even the choice of street or track leads me to make some changes. Only takes 10-15 minutes to change most of the jets.

Robert

 

The ONLY largely fixed factor in the different flavors of 45DCOE # or 40DCOE # is the location and size of the progression holes. These are drilled through the body to the area directly above the closed butterfly. Some are 2 holes, some 3, and different sizes and slightly different locations as such, as the butterfly begins to open. Some butterfly's are notched at these holes. As Robert mentioned, everything in the DCOE's can be changed. I have even changed size and location of progression holes, but this is a time consuming and as such, expensive alteration. Robert has a small box, while I have 2 large boxes of everything you can think about to get DCOE's right on.
MY POINT IN MY OPENING COMMENT: If you believe you are buying rare GTA 45 DCOE 14's and end up with something else for LOTS OF MONEY, you will NOT be happy!

BTW the Spanish DCOE's are as adaptable as the rest, some claim poorer quality. I have only seen ONE here in the US and it was much the same as others. I did not work on it, and I have no idea how it would hold up over time.

 

Got this message from the vender AND E-BAY.


" "Sorry these are DCOE13s"


- peensr Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.



Item and user details
Item Title: Alfa Romeo 45 Weber Carburetors GTA
Item Number: 200235000061
Item URL: eBay Motors: Alfa Romeo 45 Weber Carburetors GTA (item 200235000061 end time Jul-04-08 15:15:05 PDT)
End Date: 04-Jul-08 18:15:05 EDT
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fwiw

Ken

 

Ken,
I was just posting this. Yes he named the 13's and also Yes, 13's work fine on GTA's with the existing progression holes.

 

Hey Gordon,

But not correct for a period restoration or a fuss budget.

Which other 45 DCOE "work fine on GTA's with the existing progression holes" in your experience?

Ciao

Ken

 

You are right Ken. I remarked a set of perfect DCOE13 tops that were lightly stamped and MADE a set of DCOE 14's, scribing "originally DCOE 13" inside the bore where the vent's covered them so they couldn't be "real" Also the SN on the tops remained, not in the 14 production sequence.
The others that work well are the common DCOE 9's. Nines are old enough it's a good idea to use a new steel butterfly bar. Both the 9's and 13's seem to have the progression holes drilled so the will work with the big valve 1600's, without much low end bog or stagger. Better with 1750's & 2 L. My Real 14's, depending on temperature and humidity (and engine temperature) sometimes offer a little stagger up from low idle. Not always, but often enough that I've learned to be easy on the throttle to 2000. If you set the idle up, this goes away.

 

Always great info Gordon !!
One other question....are 45 DCOE 15 and 16 also early model webers? The set that I have are made in Italy, with the Sn's 1G and 1H. They came with 38 mm chokes and 160/225 mains, so I will be reseting them for a warm 1750 for the Super.

 

45DCOE 15/16 were standard fitment on a BMW 1800 TI/SA - a homologation special that existed before the GTA and the first touring car to do the old Nurburgring under 10 minutes. They are a common 4 cylinder BMW fitment, including souped up 2002ti's, particularly Alpina versions and similar.

You likely need to change out the auxiliary venturi as standard fitment is usually a 5.0 rather than the 4.5 common to Alfas.

I have a set that I ran on a 1600 GTA w/ appropriate re-jetting - compared to the 45DCOE14's I never quite got the same transition from idle to main circuit. They may be more appropriate for slightly larger engines and seem to be making great power w/ 36mm chokes on a 2 liter w/ no evidence of funny transitions.

 

As Alleggerita mentions, funny transitions are the big drawback to many of the 45DCOE series on smaller bore engines. These Webers are adjustable in most ways imaginable, by simply changing internal components. The drilled progression holes, being fixed, can be one of the major keys to smooth transitions. As mentioned, hardly worth the effort to rework, if bodies with the proper transition holes can be found for the particular application.

 

Interrestingly, I have the same model 45's on my GTV w/a 1750 only series 5M and 6M.
They have 33 mm chokes and 130/200 mains and it runs like a scalded ape !!
The new 1750 is a little milder in cam and compression, but I will probably try 32mm chokes and the same mains.

 

40 & 45 DCOE Webers for transplant use

At some time in history, Weber realized pollution controls were the wave of the future. All this is just my opinion from fiddling with these things for a good many years. When Weber recognized that fuel injection was replacing the Weber, they tried to clean up the low end and transition circuit, eventually coming up with the DCOM series. Early 40 DCOE 2's, 45 DCOE 9's or 13's were messy at low speeds and in transition, but today work well with warmed over engines with big, or long duration cams that don't build pressure until wound up some. I have seen a list, perhaps from Papajam, here on the BB that lists Webers and applications on Alfa's. Another list by a Weber historian like Gron Perry or MR Pierce can probably point out where in the 70's era, Webers started to get cleaned up, from all applicable auto manufacturers. For our tuned and modified engines, the earlier units are easier to get to work properly. A point to consider is that any Weber with a brass butterfly bar IS EARLY. Steel bars can also come on "dirty" Webers. A common failure of the brass bar Webers is the bar bowing from the return spring pull, and preventing the butterflies from closing 100% and / or "notching" the bores, and making the central holes in the body oval. I have repaired a lot of older DCOE's with these problems, time consuming work, requiring the steel bar and PATIENCE. I really like older DCOE's so it's worth the effort. I hope my opinions are helpful.