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The expectation that different oils will fix your transmission is wrong. There is no oil that can fix your bad synchro ring. The effect of Redline and other synthetic oils is to smooth the gear change when the oil is cold and may also reduce wear over time. So my recommendation is to keep the Redline oil, see if the clutch is operating correctly, and if you still have a problem, you may need a transmission rebuild.
 
imo, one should run a cheap oil to flush the tranny before filling with the Redline NS.
I used a cheap single weight engine oil SAE40 (might have been SAE 30) for a hundred miles or so.....the trans ran much much better just on the engine oil (!) than it did on the Castrol gear oil some alfa specialist chucked in there, which was totally useless in the cold.

I think Jim Papajam used a straight weight SAE 40 engine oil in his transmissions.
 
Was starting to have a problem with the 2nd gear crunch. So I went with the Redline 75W-90 NS because of all the positive results from this forum. This stuff actually made it worse. I now have problems getting into 1st and second gear crunch is worse then ever. I'm going to drain this out and replace it but I'm not sure what to replace it with. Has anyone else had this problem with Redline? What would be a good alternative? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Chuck
Hmm! I have used Sweepco on my 915 Porsches for years with great success. On the NSX it caused hydrostatic loading on both gears that created drag between the two gears causing a crunch going both in and out of gear. Mobil ! 15/30 cured the issue
 
I would first determine if clutch is fully releasing. You should depress clutch and try to put transmission in reverse without grunch 5 secs or so after you depress clutch. If it grinds, clutch is dragging.
 
On the NSX it caused hydrostatic loading on both gears that created drag between the two gears causing a crunch going both in and out of gear. Mobil ! 15/30 cured the issue
I'm not surprised, the NSX spec'd a 30wt motor oil equivalent for the gearbox. Swepco is a 90wt gear oil, which in motor oil terms is a 40-50wt. It's too thick for that transmission.

Alfa specs 90wt gear oil.
 
^^^ My experience as well. Wonder if going to the Swepco would reduce or eliminate my fluid seep/leak??? Any thoughts from the brain trust on the board?

Shifting with the Redline 75W90 NS is excellent but that synthetic lube sure seems to leak.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
I would first determine if clutch is fully releasing. You should depress clutch and try to put transmission in reverse without grunch 5 secs or so after you depress clutch. If it grinds, clutch is dragging.
Did the 5-10 second delay then put in in reverse no crunch. I'm convinced that it's Redline that is causing the problems.
 
The problem here is the the lower viscosity and lack of sulphur in the synthetic Redline oil. It's just too slippery for the synchros to work properly (especially worn synchros).

Synchros work by using friction to either speed up or slow down two intermeshing and rotating devices. Modern manual transmissions don't 'shift' gears, per se (except reverse) - gears are constantly in mesh. When you shift you are 'locking' a gear to a shaft, rather than letting it freewheel. Remember that modern gear boxes are in constant mesh. The gears are never pulled apart only locked or unlocked to shafts, hence the gear teeth can be helically cut at an angle to ensure quite operation. It's straight cut gears that give reverse that distinctive sound.

Alfas use Porsche designed synchros, which are completely unlike the traditional brass cone style found on most other manual transmission vehicles. The Porsche style rings are moly coated, beveled split rings that have an interior mechanism that expands the ring (to create greater force) as the sliding sleeve first contacts the synchro. The rotating, sliding sleeve is moved fore and aft into gear engagement by the shift fork. As the expanding ring starts griping the rotating sleeve (which 'floats' on a three prong yoke attached to the output shaft between 1st and 2nd driven gears). The driving gears being fixed on the countershaft. The driven gears freewheel when not engaged. There are small teeth on the face of the driven gear as well on each side of the sliding sleeve. Ideal these are spinning at the same speed when the meet and 'lock' the gear to the shaft (via the sleeve and fixed yoke.

The issue with Porsche style synchros is the the bevel facing (moly coated) starts to wear down, as does the inner surface of the sliding sleeve. The growing tolerance means the sleeve gets to the mating teeth before the gear gets a chance to come up to speed. The buzzing sound when you crunch the gears is the teeth riding against one another.
1st and 2nd share a sliding sleeve (center sleeve in pic below). 3rd and 4th use the same parts and set up. 5th also uses the same set up but the back slide of the sleeve is unused. A quick and dirty refresh of crunchy 2nd gear Alfa box that's fine otherwise (assuming it the synching teeth on 2nd gear are half decent) is to harvest the 5th gear sleeve and synchro ring. The synchro rings can be flipped around to present a less worn bevel to the sliding sleeve (on any forward gear). You then take the old 1/2 sleeve and use that for 5th, with the 1st gear side towards 5th and the bum old 2nd gear side now just no work at all.

In the illustration below the front of the box is on the left. 4th gear is the first gear on the left, on the input shaft - but the curved gear teeth are what drive the countershaft for the other gears. 4th gear is a direct drive gear - when you shift the 3/4 sliding sleeve forward (by pulling the gear lever backwards) you are locking the input shat to the output shaft and in essence making the crankshaft, input shaft, output shaft and driveshaft one long shaft rotating at engine speed. 5th/reverse is the the sleeve in the pic that has a really visible shift fork. The 3/4 and 1/2 foals are located on the right side of the gear case and the tips are just visible under the top case thru bolt holes. The straight cut gears on the counter and output shafts are reverse (plus a movable idler gear that is hidden below 5th in this photo). Hope this explanation makes sense.

As an aside to this particular issue, never overlook the dumb stuff - could a scrunched up floor mat be preventing full clutch disengagement?


Image
 
I am about to get a lot of hate for this but here it goes: I had the same issue and if you changed nothing else’s it is as you suspect the oil. Drain that NS out.
What I did I’d fill 1/2 with straight 40wt. (50 if you can find it) or the oil you were using. Then fill the other 1/2 with that gloppy Lucas motor oil stabilizer stuff, or whatever they call it. It’s hard to do and messy because it’s so thick.
My reasoning was that if the synchros are spinning to easily / fast that gloppy crap would slow them down.
It worked like a charm but I had to change it every year as it seemed to wear out after awhile.
 
Great thread.

Following to learn what I should do, or not do, to preserve my still shifting OK 74 GTV tranny..
The old saying " If it ain't broke, don't fix it." comes to mind, but the lube from PO has been in there a long, long time.

Anxious to hear if switching out from the RedLine 75w-90 NS to something slightly higher viscosity fixes OP's issues.
Or not?
 
Was starting to have a problem with the 2nd gear crunch. So I went with the Redline 75W-90 NS because of all the positive results from this forum. This stuff actually made it worse. I now have problems getting into 1st and second gear crunch is worse then ever. I'm going to drain this out and replace it but I'm not sure what to replace it with. Has anyone else had this problem with Redline? What would be a good alternative? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Chuck
You might try Pennzoil Synchromesh Manual Trans Fluid 80W-90 (GL-3). It has reduced lubrication that allows the synchromesh to work better than the typical GL-5 spec 80W-90 gear lubes. And GL-3 is less corrosive to the soft metals of the synchros as opposed to the GL-5. I use this in my 1987 AR Spider Veloce and 1969 Jaguar E-type with no shifting problems (except AR 2nd which always requires a double clutch downshift).
 
There are no soft metals in alfa transmission since 1959/1960 until the 164 which went back to the Borg Warner design.
 
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For those reading with early cars - non moly syncros.
I believe the decision is not out on redline in those boxes- needing more of a GL1 oil
I put some Redline in mine but i believe that is no good for early non moly syncros- corrosive
 
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