Congratulations Jason!

Where you able to find a 2017 brand new leftover or did did you buy it used?

Very nice car.

Thanks

 

It's "used" with 8K miles on it. Tint is coming of asap! Thank you guys. I am so very happy. I pick it up in about a week after my mini vacation. It's 3hrs away from me.

 

Congrats.

I still wonder about the driving difference between the four wheel drive and the rear drive w/limited slip. Guess I would have to drive both to see for myself.

 

Thanks Del!

It's really hard to tell as the Q4 is mainly RWD. It feels like a RWD car.

 

I did a 50% tint on mine but yeah, the tint on your car looks to be 35% which is very dark.

 

AZ that's why! Everyone has to put tint on. I hate it. Looks ok on dark cars but I like OEM clear glass. Nice and clean look I like!

Yours looks good. I just can't stand dark tint.

 

Funny, do you think if you put slotted rotors you can improve one of the best brakes in the world? What will you install? Brembo? Giulia already has Brembo. The same about other "improvements". There are no tuners who made engine better. Even Romeo Ferraris got +33HP and 58Nm And 0.1 sec to 100km/h No one can crack Multiair. Giulia is not FIAT anymore, and it is not BMW or other German crap. Do not try to improve perfectly designed car

LSD? Why not to buy with perfomance pack (LSD and electrical shock absorber)

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Hmm, being snarky here or what?

No, solid rotors rule over anything else, more surface area.

Tuning. I will be experimenting with tunes that do not use up the remaining parameters that Alfa left in place. I normally never tune my alfa engines. I did do a ECU chip in my 164S which was very subtle.

I agree with you that it is perfection, it's also fun to have some fun with these. I am only talking about flashing here, nothing more. But if it is useless I won't be doing it. Most stuff is.

"LSD? Why not to buy with performance pack (LSD and electrical shock absorber)"

Because I didn't. I found basically the one I wanted locally and that's what I got no LSD or active suspension. It was a great price as well. I have not found one with everything I wanted in the color I wanted anywhere. I am settling for now but I am sure I will be very happy with it and forget about those missing items. Having a mechanical LSD at some point might be nice and might be the only upgrade I do.

Suspension I am sure it just fine. I am not doing aftermarket here at all. I mean I would like the Q4 to sit at the level of the Q2 but I will let others experiment and find out what happens. One thing I am researching. The lowering springs for the giulia all drop the car way too much and I don't support making a car worse! If I can use a OEM spring on the Q4 to bring it down .5" then that's the route I will go. I have to research the OEM springs from US and EU.

For the most part I agree with you but as mentioned it's mainly things I am thinking about not sold on doing.

thanks for the comments.

 

(For road cars) it's never about the performance gain as it is personalising the car.

Top Gear did a great special on this and proved hotting up a road car was pointless, money wasting process.
Pete

 

I agree. See above post.

Mostly Pointless! I have to see that episode to see what they are referring to.
With those terms, the giulia quad is essentially pointless as well.

Would I make mine look slightly different but still keeping it fairly stock, yes. Quad spoiler, carbon fiber pieces, sure. I may even want to see if I can fit euro bumper with headlamp washers. It's the little subtle things I prefer.

I have been on the boat for a long time that being a purist is a great way to go (sometimes the only) and will typically cause no issues in the long run with the vehicle. The more crap you do the more problems you have. That said I am 90% purist if you know me from my 164. I usually use the OEM stuff to change things. Just wait until I get my hands on a wrecked giulia!

 

I would change wheels for lighter weight (to decrease unsprung mass) and use better tires (for American market they are horrible all season, in EU tires are much much better). Probably performance package has many different from regular version parts (springs, shock absorbers, etc..) as it was done before for 147/156/166/159/Brera Turismo Internazionale. ePer can help to figure out the differences.

And the last one, usually AR changes alignment for performance versions, sometimes they even changed tire pressure for performance versions (see eLum of European versions).

 

First thing I am doing is dumping the tires. I am replacing with a Michelin PS. No idea what I'd get for an 'all-seaons" tire. Cinturato P7 All Season Plus, get's good reviews and does a decent job in snow.

I'd like to change the wheels for lighter ones but I have not found any I like, so for now I keep the OEM.

I can't find my link to ePER for the giulia parts. Do you have that?

I'll have a look at alignment specs US vs EU.

 

Ah
Buying a new Giulia in white.
Takes me back.

 

Looking through the online listings for used Giulias in my 200 mile radius area, I note that the prices for used cars is dropping as I had surmised they would, ie, low 30k for used ~15k mile 4 banger models, depending on what configuration they have.

Gives food for future thought.

 

"The 164 lowered on konis is not comfortable for the most part"

I used Konis on the LS and stock S springs, with no change in height, and the resulting road feel and curvy road driving is just fine, better than the S, IMO. I suspect that you are mostly correct about lowering the car too much, just makes it less compliant on the road. I sometimes think that if I came across a set of used but good Konis, I would change the S across.

 

Pete
Good point.
The "old" Brit cars and particularly the Morgan from the 1950s had flexible chassis with stiff, short travel suspension.
Worked well on a very smooth track.
The Giulietta was the step to a modern car with stiff, as possible, body and flexible long-travel suspension. And very well controlled.
I had a Healey 100 and an MGTF, and my sister had a TR-3. All as daily drivers.
In driving the 101 Spider I bought in 1965, the improvement in handling was "night and day". Helped by radial tires.
I used my first Super for a season of Novice Racing and put in a roll bar from a GTV and installed Koni shocks. Not adjustable.
These were too firm for general use, but I got married and didn't have the money to change the shocks.
Next was the 79 Alfetta Sports Sedan. Turbo-charged it and installed the Shankle suspension. Lowered a lot. With the Spax adjustable shocks on stiff it was good for track days. On soft OK for smooth roads, but not good on "Humpy-bumby" back roads.
The best on these roads has been the latest Super. It came to me with a "performance" suspension.
This included 1100 # springs on front which were good for the track but brutal on "B" roads.
Put on 500s on the front, Koni Reds set 1/2 firm on the front. Konis full soft at the back and removed the rear sway bar.
Outstanding!!!!!
What has been the lesson to me?
Keep the suspension close to standard stiffness----and to the standard ride height.
But it is "cool" to go for the "performance" suspension.
After all, because it is a "mod" it is bound to be better.
Isn't it?

 

Suspension geometry in jounce (bump) is the primary variable in road vehicle handling, not ride height. The 164 was designed for 195/65 or 205/55 section tires. Those sections are not as much affected by camber change as newer fashion tires which are frankly getting ridiculous for road use. Even a 40 series tire is pretty much useless over a bumpy road and 35 is pathetically incompetent on most North American road surfaces, especially anywhere that gets deep frost winters. I note that the UK motoring press are starting to push back against mainly European makers who ignore these practicalities in the pursuit of wheels and tires as fashion statements.

To use part of one of Martin Brundle's favourite sayings the largest effect on vehicle performance is provided by changing the nut behind the wheel. For a really good illustration of this effect check out Top Gear's F1 stars in a reasonably priced car hot laps. Lewis Hamilton in particular gives a master class demonstration of what it actually takes to extract 100% out of ANY car chassis. The shot of Lewis dancing a $h!tbox car through Gambon is truly priceless stuff.

Bear in mind the actual lap is well under 2 minutes of this 8 minute video clip and Ricciardo eventually beats a later much quicker Hamilton dry lap time, itself over 1.5 seconds quicker than he did this in the wet (Lewis blames his slow wet lap on Mark Webber leaving oil on the track from a previous lap by that Aussie).

 

"noisemaker straw"
Outstanding description.

 

Top gear hopped up a Renault Avantime. It worked. Sort of.

 

Turning circle for the 164 is not materially different to the new Giulia (a smaller car inside) or the similar SAAB 9000. Stated turning circle is larger when the bodywork is included (wall to wall) than when the wheels are used (curb to curb) so it can be tricky to directly compare published numbers.

Although turning radius (the technically more accurate term) technically depends on maximum steering arm deflection (steering angle) the limits are set more by vehicle width than engineering issues with steering angles. Wider cars have larger turning radii with a given maximum steering angle capability. All the tight turning cars are also narrow, inside and out. The 164 is very roomy inside due to its width.

References to wheelbase affecting turning radii fail to take into account the fact that it is the inner front wheel steering angle limit that determines turning radius and the width of the vehicle must be added to whatever radius can be achieved by that inner steered wheel.

 

BTW Neal, I've been there and made a Sud considerably faster around a race track by close to doubling the hp, racing pads (+ cooling ducts), little engined Sud gearbox for more track suited ratios, springs and shocks, tyres, gutted interior ... I think maybe 10 secs a lap faster than it originally was.

Every change moved it away from a road car and compromised the car more.

But if your car has a flaw, modify it. Case in point, and the only road car I've modified. Owned a Toyots people mover, for some reason Toyotas are always too soft in the front meaning you have to lift before corners on the open road. Wears the front struts out ... well the way I drive did. So yes I increased the front spring/shock stiffness by 30%, plus changed camber settings. Car was a much better tourer ... but not faster on a race track (?). A Q4 should not have an issue as a driver car ....
Pete

 

In this thread I've criticized "performance" suspensions.
From experience.
Twice.
My first Giulia Super and the Alfetta Sports Sedan.
And they were daily drivers.
Good for the track and cool for looks.
But not for fun "B" roads.
As wide as possible tires is a similar subject.

 

Unfortunately, the classic Alfa community has very limited options when it comes to suspension. Your damper options for "performance" are basically Koni Yellows, the Alfaholics units ($$$ and relatively new to the market), or trying to fit a more custom solution (usually $$$ and racers only). You also suffer from quite dated suspension designs and floppy chassis (by modern standards) that will exacerbate the impact of any stiffening (especially in the rear due to no IRS). In modern cars with a better aftermarket, there are options that actually both improve performance AND comfort if you are willing to spend the cash. For example, the Ohlin Road and Track coilovers are noted to actually improve ride quality on my STI compared to stock- you certainly pay for that quality, however.

In general, OEM engineers have 4 key constraints they have to play with when choosing a part that impacts performance:

Regulatory compliance
NVH (noise vibration harshness)
Reliability
Parts cost

Most tuners just disregard NVH and reliability, and this is why many tuner cars feel ruined. If the reason the OEM chose a particular solution was simply cost, then you may be able to get an unequivocal improvement in every regard by spending more than the OEM. Of course, if money is no object, the question often arises why you didn't just buy a better equipped car to start with.

 

Man this thread has turned into a great discussion ?
Pete

 

UPDATE

Took another giulia out for a spin today. Confirm. Nothing needs to be done to this car, PERIOD! I really drove it hard and really studied the performance, handling and ergonomics of the car. I cannot see changing anything for the better. Bear in mine I drove a Q2 with active and 19x8, 19x9 wheel package. Absolutely amazing car! Just simply perfection out of the box. All I want is Nero mirrors and a carbon fiber spoiler as well as some QV side skirts and 19x9 wheels for the rear on my Q4. Other than that there is no performance mod, suspension mod or any other useless mod I would add.

Such a beautiful car!

 

I checked ePer. Basically the springs have 2 different calibrations for each car versions (RWD or 4WD, diesel or petrol). The main difference if it has a sunroof or not (as I remember it's about 70kg difference in a weight)

So versions with the performance package (LSD and electronic shock absorbers) have the same springs as regular.

I assume in this case that the suspension geometry is equal for regular cars and cars with performance pack.

Lighter wheels? Again, in ePer is easy to find a weight of every part, but I would check OZ Superleggera.

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Check EU accessories catalog, they have skirts and spoilers for Giulia

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Looking around for wrecked cars to pull from. Might buy a few in the next couple of years to part out. I don't see the need for part yet but I may bring one in to part and store parts for the future. Hopefully I can score some mirrors or at least get them painted in the nero color, rear spoiler is no big deal. Side skirts for sure, it will just add a nice flare. (haha). I'd maybe like a nice exhaust note but in all reality not sure a SS exhaust would do much except make it louder.

 

I cannot see anyone modifying a Giulia QV unless you want to build a track car. I think it is much cheaper to buy a used sports racer and have a true track car. I had a friend who race his Alfa Spider in SCCA D Production and his partner said that it would have been cheaper to race a SCCA B sports racer. The cost to build a racing sports car is really expensive and competing against factory sponsered race cars is very difficult.

 

You might be surprised. There are lots of modified M3s and C63s running around. However, most people who modify will do minor things like add a tune and a downpipe. An extra 100hp is likely doable without doing anything too drastic.

 

I love this car!

First upgrades, Tires. OEM p7's are junk. Will install Pzeros or Michelin PS4S. with Rear 19x9 or 19x8 wheels. No more 225 stretch either.

-245/35/19 front (rear depending on wheel), 255/40/19 on 19x9 or stock size for 19x10 on Qv.

-no carbon fiber

-maybe b pillar carbon fiber like the OEM 164 carbon fiber I have. I found some nice carbon fiber mirror covers with subtle alfa logo on them. Pretty tasteful I think.

-Rear spoiler. Not sure on that yet.Painted the trofeo white.

-Will either upgrade exhaust to SS by Supersprint or remove mid muffler and rear for a bit more sporty sound, it is a bit quiet. Also working with an Italian company on a flasher.

-Will not touch suspension at this point. It's really quite nice the way it is. This car would be obnoxious lowered! It already rides like it is lowered. Part of it is the Sh** tires!

-Tint is being removed. Hate it!!! Plus its wavy on the back window at that angle and too **** dark!

Happy the car came with a clear bra on the entire front end.

164 and 952 together. 164 in it's normal position, being repaired for something... haha kidding, Q2 still being installed. I will miss the 164 greatly!

 

I love this car!

First upgrades, Tires. OEM p7's are junk. Will install Pzeros or Michelin PS2. with Rear 19x9 or 19x10 wheels. No more 225 stretch either.

-245/35/19 front (rear depending on wheel), 255/40/19 on 19x9 or stock size for 19x10 on Qv.

-A little carbon fiber here and there will be a nice touch but I am not going to throw it up all over the car.

-b pillar carbon fiber like the OEM 164 carbon fiber I have. I found some nice carbon fiber mirror covers with subtle alfa logo on them. Pretty tasteful I think.

-Rear spoiler. Not sure on that yet. Maybe go carbon fiber or painted the trofeo white.

-Will either upgrade exhaust to SS by Supersprint or remove mid muffler and rear for a bit more sporty sound, it is a bit quiet. Also working with an Italian company on a flasher.

-Will not touch suspension at this point. It's really quite nice the way it is. This car would be obnoxious lowered! It already rides like it is lowered. Part of it is the Sh** tires!

-Tint is being removed. Hate it!!! Plus its wavy on the back window at that angle and too **** dark!

Happy the car came with a clear bra on the entire front end.

164 and 952 together. 164 in it's normal position, being repaired for something... haha kidding, Q2 still being installed. I will miss the 164 greatly!

Sold 164?

 

Yeah big fan of clear bras ...

Pete

 

Haha!

 

I knew I could find you here lol! I got a year and some change left on my VW CC lease, but I am seriously considering a Giulia. Will be interested to see how yours holds up. Also I see you still have your 164, that is awesome! Look forward to more posts on both cars, take it easy brotha,
Jon

 

Buddy! Email me!!

So far the giulia is AWESOME! No issues at all. I specifically went for late 2017. No carplay or anything. Q4 version in trofeo. Love it man. What I miss? Manual trans but this thing is so bloody fast to shift I don't care. V6 sound and performance even though so slow compared to the giulia. Both have stellar looks but the 164 does have that classic pinninfarina design that never gets dull.
Miss having the only one around in that shape.

Otherwise I have not seen another trofeo Q4 in SD, only a QV and he is my customer.

I'd dump that VW. I won't buy another one of those things again. My TDI Touareg has been at VW for 3 months getting a new engine and fuel system under warranty.

 

P7 is not a bad tire but it doesn't pretend to be high performance. Runflats are universally awful tires by comparison to the regular version of the same tire.

Pirelli PZero is much better but then it is intended to be by Pirelli. PZero A/S Plus is a very good tire for an all season. Rides better, quieter and better in the wet than the Michelin equivalent. Michelin aims their high performance all season more to the dry end of the scale.

Runflats are the solution to a non existent problem. Ditch those asap for a better regular design.

 

Here she is. Only added a rear spoiler, painted of course as I don't like the carbon fiber trend.

Next is the Tecnico Bright Silver wheels. Made in Germany. Lighter and Silver not Anthracite or whatever dark color the wheels are. I am over this carbon fiber and dark wheel non-sense.

Going with supersprint exhaust but may add Fiammenghi Italian made rear exhaust with valve. Super nice.