My recommendations for a buyer’s inspection:

Body/Exterior
1. Paint condition/clear-coat separation. Especially mirrors, roof, trunk lid and sunroof which are the areas first to go.
2. Rust around fuel filler door.
3. Look on the inside of the fuel filler door for a sticker that says “Recall 96V-140.” That signifies that the fuel hose to the tank was replaced under recall because the original had a propensity to fail and cause gasoline leakage.
4. Rust on under-car steel fuel pipes, brake lines, and especially power steering cooling loop (left side of car).
5. Rust on rear suspension.
6. Weak hood struts. (about $75 each)
7. Springs that need adjusting on the trunk hinges.
8. Plugged up sunroof drain holes.
9. Sunroof smoothness of operation and weatherproof sealing.
10. Door handles are notoriously weak. Be careful and check them. Look for little "dimples" showing bending.
11. Keys. Both valet and primary key. Primary key blanks have to be ordered over the internet and are about $12. The “valet” key blanks/cutting are available at most key shops and can be made into primary keys that open the glovebox and trunk, by filing down the small ridge on either side of the key a little. Very easy to do. Ask the seller about extra keys and make sure they work in the trunk and glovebox. Also ask about the Key Fob Anti-Theft Alarm Button. Without that, you can’t arm/disarm the alarm function. OEM replacements aren’t available, although some owners have had success with training aftermarket fobs to do the job. Also, be sure to get the Alarm Siren disable key (small brass key), so you can shutdown the system without the key fob, if necessary.
12. Look for leaks under the car. Especially from the steering rack. Seal leaks are common as these cars age. Steering racks are about $350 for rebuilds, not including labor to install (not easy).
13. On some "S" models, the trunk lid raising mechanism used a gas strut instead of conventional springs. These struts are not easily visible because they mount to the body behind the rear window sheet metal. The problem is the mounting point is weak and can break putting a serious outward dimple in the outer sheet metal. Other "S" models used conventional springs that are clearly visible along the sides of the trunk. There are no issues with those.

Interior
1. Driver seat condition. Rare factory special Recaro Seat option (very very few cars) is a big plus.
2. Tan interiors seem to wear worse, at least look worse when worn, than black interiors
2. Operation of seat heaters (failure item).
3. Overhead console. Cracking/falling apart. No new parts NLA. Be very care to not pressure the outer frame because it very easily cracks. If you touch it, probably some black **** will come off on your hand. This oxidized “soft touch” coating can be removed with lacquer thinner. The appearance will remain the same but the black **** that rubs off on everything will go away.
4. Shrinkage/pealing up of the edges of the instrument panel hood leather cover. It is possible to recover with new leather. About $100.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/185307-instrument-panel-cover-refurb.html

5. Any cracks/damage in front glass windscreen. They’re hard-to-get and expensive.
6. Black carpet commonly fades to weird dark greenish, grayish black color. Can be redyed.
7. Check operation of seat motors. Somewhat common complaint that they stick in the rear-most position.
8. INSTRUMENT PANEL/WARNING LIGHTS (See pictures below): Turn the key switch to "ON." Across the bottom of the instrument cluster there is an entire row of warning lights. They should all come on, at least initially. The long amber one on the far right is the AIRBAG light, which will come on for a few seconds, then extinguish if the system passes its self-check. If it doesn't come on at all, then it's almost certain that the owner has removed the bulb or disconnected the wire to conceal an inop system. Another very common problem is the Anti-Skid system warning light (7th from the left). Many cars no longer have a functioning anti-skid system and owners have removed the bulb to conceal that as well. If working normally, the anti-skid light should extinguish a few seconds after engine start.

There is a bulb check button on the lower left facia panel. Press that to see what bulbs work or have been disconnected.

There is one difference between auto transmission cars and manuals. In automatics, the 4th light from the left is transmission overheat while on manual cars, it's shows "low beam lamps".

Modifications:
Be very skeptical of modifications to the car, especially add-ons that cover things up. For instance, in the car I bought, the previous owner had installed an expensive and highly complicated aftermarket alarm system along with a stereo system/woofer in a large wooden encasement in the forward part of the trunk. And it didn’t work, BTW. The major problem, besides the broken systems and added wiring, was the fact that this permanently installed box across the forward third of the trunk covered up access to the fuel pump, fuel level sender unit, and vent tubing. And remember that eventually, probably very soon, you’ll need to start replacing some of these very old rubber parts.

Tires/Brakes:
1.164s wear front tires and brakes more quickly than most other cars. Inspect accordingly. Look for even wear and good alignment.
2. Seized/dragging rear brakes are not an unheard of fault in 164s. It comes from the parking brake mechanism not releasing completely. Usually requires replacement of the calipers, which are expensive. Release the parking brake and the car should roll easily. The 164 parking brake holds very well when working correctly.
3. After the test drive, check that the brakes are heated evenly and you don’t have a dragging brake. Look for deep scoring/rust on brake rotors.

Air Conditioning & HVAC Dash Controls

1. Stepper motors under the dash. These control movement of the various doors that mix air to satisfy the automatic heating/cooling system. These are common failure items and are very difficult to access, requiring loosening and pulling the entire dashboard back. If you can find it, the new part cost is about $300. The specific failure mode of the steppers is not the motor itself, but a gear in the little gearbox attached to the motor. Many BMWs use the same stepper gearbox, and replacement gears can be obtained from salvage BMW steppers for about $20 each ($40 for the parts to repair both Alfa stepper motors). Once the stepper motor assembly is out of the car, replacing the faulty gears is relatively easy. If you pay a mechanic to replace the steppers, the labor cost will be very high. Bad steppers are characterized by failure of the dash buttons to change the direction/temp of the air and a constant clicking noise made by the motors trying to move the doors despite broken gears in the stepper motor assembly. If inop, the motors usually freeze in the windshield defrost position. Some sellers might disconnect the steppers to prevent the constant clicking. You can see connector behind the access plate on the left inside of the glove box. Just remove the cover and look in. As mentioned before, it may be more than just bad steppers . . . could be a broken distribution drum as well. Most of the time this can be repaired in-situ with a reinforcement ring (approved Alfa factory repair), if you have the broken piece. If not, you'll have to fabricate one. See the many threads on the BB on repairing the distribution drum pivot and stepper gear replacement. Here's a couple:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/189397-stepper-motor-repair-2.html
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/194668-broken-distribution-drum-2.html

2. The dash controls also have a self-test function if you wish to perform it.

3. R134 Conversions. This is a important and potentially expensive item to consider.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/198765-r-134a-conversion-guide.html

91-93 models were R12 refrigerant. Many systems were converted to R134, with various degrees of fastidiousness. Beware of a cheapo job with just throwing in some cans of R134 w/oil charges. A good R134 conversion should consist of a minimum of removing and draining the compressor of its R12 lubricating oil and refilling with Ester Oil. A new R134 receiver drier (different desiccant than a R12 drier) should be fitted and replenished with the appropriate amount of R134 Ester Oil. And, of course, replacing the old R12 sealing o-rings with R134 spec ones on any opened connection.

A really good conversion would also replace the Expansion Valve with a R134 specific one, which operates at somewhat different pressure specs.

A really thorough conversion, in addition to the above, would purge the entire system of the old mineral oil, refit a larger, more efficient parallel-flow condenser (available from Alfissimo and other generic custom A/C vendors) http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/196439-parallel-flow-condenser-retro-fit.html, a R134 specific compressor and a refill with R134 PAG oil. If all the old R12 mineral oil was removed, then PAG is your best choice. Otherwise most people prefer to use Ester Oil because it’s more tolerant of residual mineral oil in the system.

If the R12 hoses are retained after conversion to R-134a, you may get some loss of R-134a during the year due to the smaller molecules going through the "non-barrier" type hoses. Usually a top-off of R-134a at the beginning of the season will keep the system working great.

Be advised that the 164 air-conditioning may not get as cold as you might be used to in other cars, but should cool the car adequately.

The fan blower motor should operate freely and well. In the highest setting (4) it will blow very hard. This is also common failure item and somewhat difficult to replace.

Common failure items in the A/C system are:

1. Compressor pulley bearing.
2. Serpentine drive belt idler bearing.

Beware of any squeaks or bearing noises from the belt driven side of the engine. It could be an impending bearing failure.

Engine Compartment

The engine should start easily, run smooth, and pull nicely. The 164S engine due to the higher performance cams tend to idle with a very slight lumpiness, which is normal.

 

Engine

1. Timing Belt. This is an item of critical importance. Most owners use 30k miles and 5 years as maximum for changing the timing belt. Most change the tensioner and water pump every other belt change. The shop cost to change a timing belt is probably about $600-700 MINIMUM. For a detailed breakout of the cost of having a shop change a timing belt, see:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/341666-timing-belt-service-cost.html

An seller should have documentation on the last timing belt change, either from a shop or receipt for the parts if he did it himself. You’ll have to judge for yourself, if you think he was competent to do the work. The penalty for a broken timing belt is usually several bent valves and a VERY large repair bill.

Ask what kind of timing belt tensioner is installed (a savy owner will know). Usually it is the new "Mechanical Tensioner" approved by Alfa. These have a somewhat sketchy reputation for broken springs, although if installed correctly they are usually fine. However, many knowledgeable owners say to never allow the engine to rotate backwards with a mechanical tensioner due to the possibility of skipping a tooth on the left timing sprocket. You always avoid this anyway regardless of the type of tensioner. Some more knowledgeable owners have continued to use the original Hydraulic "De-Tensioner." The original hydraulic ones tended to be troublesome in that they leaked after a period of time. However, with modern square seals and some sealant in strategic places and new seals they are reliable and much more robust than the mechanical ones. Other owners have gone to "Fixed" tensioners (often referred to as "Zat tensioners"). These are very reliable, although they do not compensate for thermal expansion of the block resulting in a very slight bit of belt stretch. A big plus with the OEM Hydraulic De-Tensioners or the fixed tensioners is you don't have to worry about belt slippage upon startup or inadvertently rolling the car backwards in gear. A long discussion on the pros and cons of each is beyond the scope of this guide, so if you would like more info, download the timing belt/tensioner guide in the Downloadables Section.

2. If maintained well, the Alfa V-6 engine is very reliable and long lasting. If not maintained well, it can be troublesome and expensive.

3. Check fuel hoses. Remember, fuel hoses deteriorate from the inside and may look fine on the outside. If original (you can tell by the factory Oetiker clamps), expect to replace them now. Two of the hoses that come up from under the car to the engine compartment are a little difficult to get to, but well-doable by an owner-mechanic. Use 7.5mm SAE30R9 spec hose and fuel injection specific clamps. 7.9mm/5/16” fuel injection line commonly available will work but will require tightening up harder on the clamp. Correct 7.5mm SAE30R9 line is available from some auto parts store and internet vendors. The system is under 45 psi pressure and small leaks could create a fuel spray fire hazard potential. Another hose that is aging out is the 1" long connector hose located in the fuel tank connecting the fuel pump to the fuel tank outlet flange. Changing that requires removing the fuel pump assembly from the tank. It's also almost certain that the rubber gasket around the fuel pump and anti-rattle pad at the bottom of the assembly need replacing.

4. Check coolant and heater hoses. Factory clamps mean the hoses are very old. Heater core. Another problem area somewhat known for leaks.

5. Radiator Fan. Let the car idle and heat up. Look for the fan to turn on when the temperature gauge gets to the long mark between 170 and 240. It may only come on momentarily, cool the water, then shut off. The temperature gauge sender is at the water pump on the engine, but the radiator fan temp sensor is on the upper left side of the Radiator. See lower paragraph for info on accuracy of 164 coolant temp gauges. If the engine does not heat up to 175F fairly quickly, it might be that the thermostat is not working correctly (common failure item).

6. Check for leaks, especially under the transmission bell housing. Could be a bad rear main seal.

7. Check for leaks from the power steering rack assembly. Another common leak problem.

8. Check for sloppiness and wear in the shifter reaction rod bushing. While an assistant moves the shift lever slightly forward and back, check for wear in the reaction rod just behind the starter.

9. Oil Consumption. 164 engines typically use oil without detriment. Maybe as much as 500 miles/qt. Many owners report that the oil consumption was higher than most cars almost from new, but stabilized and stayed that way through the life of the car. So, unless the oil consumption is fouling plugs or is very high, it should not be an overriding concern.

Here's a thread on a oil consumption survey among 164 owners:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/202369-oil-consumption-survey.html

Trunk

1. When first opening the trunk sniff for any trace of gasoline. In the forward part of the trunk, there is access to the main fuel supply pump and the fuel level sender. Even minute seepage can cause a gas smell in the trunk and passenger compartment. There are also several vent lines that run in the rear of the trunk and the evaporative vent system tank in the upper right front side of the trunk. These are all covered by the easily removed front trunk trim. I recommend asking the owner to remove the front trim piece so you can get a good look at the fuel system hoses. The large rubber elbow coming off the fuel flange is especially known to develop cracks that allow fuel vapor (remember the tank pressurizes itself after driving a while) into the trunk and passenger compartment. If the car has an original elbow and factory clamps, count on replacing it. A suitable substitute elbow can be found at any good autoparts store.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/187111-fuel-smell-2.html

2. Remove the floor trim and look at the spare tire. OEM was the emergency “doughnut.” A good plus would be a full-size spare. Check to see if the OEM took kit is there along with the jack. With a full-size spare, you need to put some foam strips about 1" thick to raise the trunk carpet floor to clear the spare. Very easy to do. Trunk is very large so you won't miss the little bit of lost space. If you have an OEM temporary spare, it's likely to have dry rotten and is unsafe. More than just a couple have literally exploded on their own in the trunk.

3. Look on the right side of the trunk. You should see a small red cord coming though a slit in the dark gray trunk trim. That’s the manual release for the fuel filler door. It’s important in case the electrical solenoid opener operated by button on the dash stops working.

4. A common problem is the outlet vents in the lower rear fender coming loose and allowing fuel fumes (especially on the left side where the exhaust pipe is.

Airbag

Airbag caution lights on the dash are a common problem. When starting the car, the airbag light will come on for a few seconds, then go out. If it stays on and flashing, the system has failed it’s self test. You can continue to drive like this, however, the airbag system may not operate when needed in a collision. The problem may be as simple as a bad connection at the connector (behind the right front seat center console kick panel), requiring nothing more than to separate and clean the connector and reconnect, or something as serious as a bad airbag in the steering wheel. The malfunction code is extracted through a procedure where you ground a test connector located behind the right door kick panel and read the number of flashes on the airbag caution light. In my case, I had an airbag caution light when I bought the car and it turned out to be a bad airbag in the steering wheel. I replaced it myself with a salvage part very inexpensively.

Driving the car

1. If possible ask the owner to have the engine cold when you arrive to see the car. The car should start readily and idle nicely. The “S” engine idle may be very slightly “lumpy.” Check the gauges:
a. RPM about 1200 or so cold, 900-1000 rpm hot.
b. Oil Pressure gauge: Alfa oil pressure sending units are traditionally problematic and notoriously inaccurate. Even new ones seem to fail (oil leaks into the sending rheostat mechanism) in a moderate amount of time. On cold start oil pressure should be about 55 psi above idle and about 30 psi at idle. A bad gauge will gradually go down in indication as the oil heats up, maybe down to almost zero at idle. However, the oil low-pressure light should NOT come on. Aftermarket sending units are available that are more reliable than OEM.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...orums/164-168-1991-1995/198632-164s-oil-pressure-gauge-sunpro-sending-unit.html
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/195378-alfahill-oil-pressure-sender.html
http://www.sunpro.com/product_detail.php?pid=16354

A good seller will have installed a new oil pressure sending unit, so that the prospective buyer can see a true indication. Beware of low oil pressure indications. It’s probably just an indicator problem, but then again it might not be, and you’re taking the chance if you buy the car and the low pressure is for real.

2. The engine coolant will heat up in traffic and at idle to the unlabeled mark between the 170 and 240 marks. That’s about 210F. This is normal, although the needle will not be sticking straight up like on most American cars. It takes a little getting used to, but is normal. At speed, the temp will moderate some. As mentioned before, the fan should come on low fan speed when the temp in the radiator reaches 198F and high fan speed at 205F, and also when the air conditioner pressure reaches a certain level. Keep in mind that the dashboard gauge temp sensor is located on the engine and the fan switch in the left radiator tank. Hence there may be some slight difference in when the fan comes on vs. the dashboard gauge reading. Many owners install a dual speed fan switch with lower kick-on temperatures (180F/195F) from an '85-'90 model VW Golf. I did this and the switch fits perfectly, except you have to put some spade terminals on the wires.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/192878-running-hot.html

Also, I note that after owning a 164 for several months that the dashboard gauge indicates about 20F higher than the actual coolant temp coming out of the thermostat (that's where the gauge sending unit is). I verified this temp discrepancy with a hand-held IR temp gun. Many owners, myself included, just solder in a 27 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor (some use a 100 ohm resistor) (about a $1) in the wire going to the temp sender. That brings the indicated temperature on the dash gauge to match the actual coolant temperature exiting the thermostat.

3. Clutch. The clutch should feel right, engage positively and not have a squeak in the pedal movement. A squeak could be cured by nothing more than some WD-40 on the pivots and rubbing parts, or could be a master cylinder going bad. Slipping is a definite problem. A clutch disc and pressure plate for an “S” model (different than the L) alone is over $400. Probably looking at $1000 parts/labor to have a shop change it.

4. Torque Steer. Since the 164 is front wheel drive, you will notice some torque steer under acceleration. After a while of driving the car, you’ll get used to it and it probably won’t bother you.

Suspension

1. The S models have a Controlled Dampening Suspension (CDS) system. It’s driver selectable on the center panel, but in "auto" switches depending on driving conditions. It is common that these fail. Replacement shocks for the “S” are very expensive (over $1k each), but can be changed to fixed “L” model type. When you first turn the key to on, look for the red light between the AUTO and SPORT button to come on momentarily, then go out. During your test drive, push the “Sport” button on the dash panel and see that the light switches to Sport mode. Sport mode will be a noticeably more firm ride and is the default failure mode. Recently, here on the AlfaBB, a member has found a way to self-overhaul the S model shocks for a fraction of the cost of new.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-168-1991-1995/181848-rebuild-electronic-strut-164s.html

However, like I said, you can substitute L shocks in their place if the Sport mode is not important to you personally.

2. In the left rear side of the engine compartment, look at the strut mounting point in the body sheet metal. Especially check the bolt hole closest to the coolant reservoir. Some cars develop a stress crack propagating from that hole and going into the body sheet metal. In such cases, the crack must be welded up and a reinforcement added to the bolt hole. See post #22 in this thread for picture of a shock tower stress crack.

3. Look for any bent or badly rusted rear cross-members/suspension parts. The rear suspension of the 164 is relatively lightweight and subject to being damaged by careless owners and mechanics jacking the car incorrectly. And BTW, NEVER EVER jack a 164 by the rear suspension. Nor tow it, pull it or anything else by the rear suspension.

Last thoughts:

Of course, any prospective owner should consider the cost of maintaining and repairing the car. 164s are NOT cheap to maintain, especially if you take the car to a shop for repair/mx. Keep in mind, these cars are 20 years old now and the normal wear items . . . bushings, seals, pumps, rubber lines, etc. have reached the end of their expected service life. A lot of 164's, because of the cost of having a specialty shop repair them, have owners that have ignored upkeep and replacement of a lot of these worn parts. That means that YOU as the new owner will have to deal with them.

If you do your own maintenance and repair work, you'll find that parts are not more expensive than the norm, but sometimes can require some searching. Almost all critical parts are available or have suitable substitutes. Working on a 164 is no harder than many other cars of it's same genre. And, of course, here on the AlfaBB, help is only a mouse click away from many highly experienced and knowledgeable long-time owner/mechanics.

Below is a more detailed version of this Buyer's Guide in PDF format.

 

Excellent buyers' tutorial & checklist! Two comments: will a full-sized spare really fit in the trunk cavity? I had a blow out last week and the blown tire (205/60/15) didn't fit, upsetting the floor trim.

Might take issue with the description that sport mode results in a "slightly" stiffer ride. The difference on a straightaway is actually quite dramatic, you will feel every imperfection of the road in "sport" setting, while in "auto" setting—if it truly is working—the imperfections will be significantly masked. And there are other ways that demonstrate this: I have a rear alloy with a mean-looking 5/8" ding on the inside edge; in sport at 40 mph I can feel the constant pulsating of the irregular wheel radiating up from underneath, while in auto I can't feel it at all. (Of course if you drive aggressively or do sharp corning the auto setting switches to sport). I have this sneaking suspicion that the majority of S's on the road don't have a functioning "auto" setting (especially when you read the BB and see that a lot of owners can't feel any difference).

2. Remove the floor trim and look at the spare tire. OEM was the emergency “doughnut.” A good plus would be a full-size spare...

Suspension

1. The S models have an adaptive electronic shock system... . Sport mode will be a slightly stiffer ride...

 

Like your thoughts and say you are correct. Being in Italy, my choices are a wee bit different. I chose a 2L twin spark as I like the 4 banger and am familiar w/it as well as the hit I don't take on my annual road tax. And I dearly love the deep gray cloth interior. If I were to add anything to your thoughts, I simply say, if you can possibly get the car on a lift prior to buying, do so and give it good looksee w/ a good light. Ciao

 

Job well done.

I might comment:

Item b under "driving the car" concerning oil pressure, it's not the gauge that goes bad but the sender. If that goes bad, you can replace with an OEM, potentially fix the nonworking one by "drilling the hole", or replace it with an aftermarket one previously discussed on the BB.

I would also say that the struts are pretty darn reliable for many thousands of miles, the only failure I have experienced was one which decided to leak a little, seals always being the weak link in shock absorbers. Most "failures" as reported end up tending to be poor wiring connections in the system. Usually cured by cleaning and applying dielectric grease to the connection.

The Bosch a/c fan motor life can be extended by lubing the exposed lhs (driver side) bearing, which collects grime and water, wearing it prematurely. The other failure mode can be the commutator which tends to wear out sooner than one would hope. The motor cannot be rebuilt as it is designed (poorly I might add), but an identical Saab motor can be bought for perhaps around $70. Not too difficult to replace.

My feeling is that all 164s should by now have had all the rubber fuel lines replaced, as they degrade faster than usual due to the higher than normal engine bay temperatures of the 164.

All 164S come with Recaro seats, but there are a few with the optional "higher tech" Recaros with the moveable bottom cushion, etc. I sat in one S with these seats, and I couldn't use them as my thighs are short, and the front of the bottom cushion hit the back of my calves uncomfortably. They are shaped differently enough that you just have to try them to see if you fit.

The unreliable serpentine belt idler pulley should be monitored once in a while, and changed before any longer trip, as if it goes out in the middle of nowhere, you are stuck until help and parts arrive. It's easy to change, however, and if you carry a spare pulley (there are several backup versions available from other makes as discussed on the BB), belt, and the few tools required, you can be on your way.

Using the handbrake EVERY time you park the car seems to alleviate hand brake/rear brake problems, as the mechanism is kept clean by the usage.

You can disarm the alarm by using the little key in the alarm control box located in the rr fender. Make sure you get one of those, and make sure you also get the fob code, although that can be determined by pulling the fob apart using the instructions discussed in one or more of the 164 Service Bulletins.

As for rust on the chassis and suspension, try to buy a West Coast car, as many have zero rust even after all this time.

Again, job well done.

 

Believe it or not, my car has original fuel lines. They even "look" in pretty good condition. However, they're high up on the to-do list.

I agree with exercising the handbrake all the time. Further, I've been told that putting it in gear and allowing the car to roll and rotate the engine backwards can disturb the valve timing?

I made a few changes to the text to include the suggestions.

 

Pen and ink change required on fuel hose size: 7.9mm is 5/16" not 3/8".

Good write up I will proof it more closely.

As for A/C conversion since it is very hard to do a full monty flush I use Ester Oil instead of PAG oil.

 

thank you so much for the time and effort involved in posting that information. I am considering adding a 164S or LS in the near future and this will be a terrific aid for that.
Grazie mille.

 

I might also add that when you check the "electroshocks", look for the little red light between the auto and sport buttons to come on for a couple of seconds. That is a check of the system. If the light doesn't come on, and there is a fault in the system, the system defaults to the sport setting. No big deal in my book, as that's where I have mine set anyway.

The other thing to check for is a sagging headliner, as the foam backing for that eventually turns to dust, and the headliner then comes loose and sags, requiring installing a new one.

I would suggest that you change those fuel lines asap, as while they may look ok, the hose ends under the clamps get hard and start crumbling, esp if touched, and then start to leak, big time. Take it from me, having witnessed this first hand. Tightening the clamps will not stop the leak. The rest of the hose may look ok, but...

 

Excellent write-up John. With regard to steering, it's vital to check entire system for leaks. My low mileage 94 came to me perfectly leak free, but within the past year i've replaced the rack and the cooling tube which had several pinholes. This was on a car that is completely rustfree on the underside.

 

A full sized spare does fit into the cavity in the trunk, with only a little of the sidewall sticking up. You do have to remove all the plastic spacers, etc. There are little bolts which stick up out of the floor, but rather than remove them, I just put wide flange nuts on them for the tire to rest on. Sure, the floor is not exactly flat, but it's just not enough to talk about. I use a full size spare in both the 91S and the 94LS. None of these phony limited speed and mileage spares for me.

The Sport setting does make a substantial difference in ride and handling response. I use the Sport setting almost exclusively, as I like the stiffer ride and more responsive handling. I find that the Auto setting is pretty floppy/floaty in normal driving, and doesn't react fast enough for speed bumps, etc, to prevent hitting the engine sump or spoiler. The vertical sensor for the Auto setting is in the trunk, which does not detect any vertical displacement of the front suspension until it is too late. I have one hill I drive down often, and at the bottom the pavement flattens quickly, enough so that if the suspension is in Auto mode, I can just scrape the spoiler. In the Sport mode, no problem at all.

The feeling of the car in Sport mode is just so much better on winding roads than the Auto mode before AND after it switches. It's much more an Alfa. I would say that if the Auto mode is not working, then the system is suppose to automatically switch to the default Sport mode. If one says he cannot tell the difference, then he has probably been in the Sport mode all the time. One way to tell is look for the little red light between the Auto and Sport buttons to come on for a couple of seconds upon start up. If it comes on, the system check says everything is ok, if not, the system has probably switched to the default.

Lol, for those who like the Auto setting, one might recommend a Buick? Said jokingly of course.

 

It's interesting how the roads we drive on determine our damping preferences. With the stimulus money being used on some roads and not on others, we've got quite a variety to deal with! I know, Del, you've mentioned this before about your one troublesome hill. I just got an idea: move the accelerometer to to front of the car, that would be an interesting experiment! I wonder if it would solve the problem.

...The vertical sensor for the Auto setting is in the trunk, which does not detect any vertical displacement of the front suspension until it is too late. I have one hill I drive down often, and at the bottom the pavement flattens quickly, enough so that if the suspension is in Auto mode, I can just scrape the spoiler...

 

I've thought of that as well. Rather than do that, though, I just run in the Sport mode because I happen to like that ride. The Auto ride is just too floppy for me. It would be interesting, though, perhaps making the Auto switching much more rapid. Still, it wouldn't solve the swaying on mild undulating roads that I think the car is floppy on, because I'm not sure that would be enough movement to cause the mode to switch from Auto to Sport, regardless of it making me slightly seasick, lol.

 

I guess I don't regard the 164 as a "luxury" car, but a sporty car with life in it's blood, exuberance. That's why I bought them, that's why I drive them. If I wanted a Buick, even just sometimes, I might buy one. Now...the Cadillac CTS-V. That might be a different picture indeed.

 

I agree that there is a significant difference between Sport and Auto. Since I drive mostly in Queens, NY, I use the soft setting so I don't have to have a kidney transplant every year. I guess the taxes are too low in NY to afford to fix the crappy streets.

 

I think that because of the recession, most streets in any city are getting rather tired, and full of poor paving and pot holes.

One thing I might also add to your expansive list of things to check is to look at the sheet metal around the top of the left front strut mounting, specifically between the strut bolt hole nearest to the coolant overflow tank and it's mounting screw hole. A crack usually develops there, emanating from the screw hole, running toward the strut mounting bolt, and possibly down behind the overflow tank. That crack must be welded up, and reinforcement added to the screw hole.

I inspected a very clean low mileage 164L a couple of weeks ago, and sure enough, it had that crack, more extensive than what I had found in my high mileage 91S. I've seen it in numerous 164's. the sheet metal at the top of the inside fender is just not thick enough to withstand impact shock cycling from the suspension, and the screw hole acts as a great stress riser for staring cracks.

 

Del- I'll add that to the list. Do you have a picture of a failure?

 

No, I don't have a picture, mine is fixed: however, a member of the local Fiat Club, who bought a clean 164l, might be able to take a picture of the crack in his car. Pretty long crack. I'll email him to see if he can do this, and upload a picture or two to the BB.

 

My 1990 164 QV has already the R134a A/C gas, maybe the EU-Spec cars were different?

 

164 strut mount crack

Here is a picture illustrating the strut mount crack. This particular crack, emanating from the overflow tank screw hole, is rather extensive, but has not yet reached the nearest strut mounting stud hole. Don't know if it extends down behind the coolant overflow tank as the crack in my 91S did. This is a low mileage relatively pristine 164L, maybe less than 70k miles? Don't remember. Many thanks to George Baumann, who supplied the picture.

 

If they had only used a round hole there instead of a square one, we wouldn't be having this issue. It's kind of hard to weld too, cause the metal is thin and burns through pretty easily. I had trouble even with my household current wire welder especially when you get to the edge of the metal at the hole. The method of welding a washer at the hole would have made it easier (had I seen that thread before doing the work). Mine extended downward as opposed to upward. I think most go down and are hidden under the coolant tank. Come to think of it, fixing the downward crack may cause an upper one to happen next.
Charles

 

How about welding the crack as best you can, then welding on some doubler plates?

I'm going to need to check my car when I get back to NY.

 

I expect that brazing should work to a useable degree without burning through the steel inner fender.

What these cars needed was not only thicker metal there but a cross brace from that strut top to the very strong dogbone area on the other side as well as a different location for that tank strap. That strut, and the other side as well really work that thin sheet metal around the strut top mounts. The dogbone brace aft mount evidently reinforces that area on the car rhs to some extent, having seen no cracking there.

 

Wow, Del...never seen this before.
Are roads that bad causing this strut/metal crack?

Erwin

 

Roads I've driven on in Europe do tend to be a little smoother in general than the average in the US, and so that might be part of the equation. In general, our roads are not too bad depending on where you are (it is a big country) except there can be speed bumps, potholes and patches, and many mismatched access lids and drains in the streets anywhere. It is common to bang into these imperfections on every drive. I have long suspected that, quite frankly, the various State Departments of Transportation in the US just don't adhere to the same standards for smoothness of roads as I've seen in Europe.

Another aspect of the problem is that we have a huge number of really large very heavy trucks compared to much of Europe. I had read a SAE study which concluded that these cause maybe >95% of the significant road damage the US suffers from. And now the trucking industry is petitioning the Feds to allow even heavier (at least 96,000 lb) and longer trucks on 0our highways.

Finally, many states and municipalities have a poor record on maintaining the road and highway infrastructure we have, from our freeway system down to the smallest side street. Our history shows that we are great at building things, but poor in maintaining them.

It is my opinion that it is possible then that Alfa Romeo underestimated the required durability of the structure supporting the stiff front suspension of the 164, esp the S sport setting, for the fatigue spectrum of occasionally hitting these obstructions over many many miles in the US. I have seen these cracks in B and L models as well, however, so even those models with the softer suspension are susceptible.

 

This is an excellent and well written buyers guide for the 164! I've had my 1992, 164S since new and still love it but I learned alot from this guide. The 'S' has let me down a couple times, due to failed water pumps and idler bearings. Over the last 125,000 miles I have experienced most of the issues that you mentioned. Fortunately there were a couple of items that I have heard of but not experienced; the main one being failed trunk hinge mounting points. I always make it a point to ooopen the trunk lid slooowly and shut the trunk lid (myself- no bag boys at Publix) very gently, in the hope that this type failure and the half moon creases on the lower 'B' pillars can be avoided.

Also when opening the doors, I just use the handle to unlatch the door enough that I can pull the door open with the thick metal window frame and not pull on the plastic handle.

If you stomp on the gas and have worn motor mounts, you may cause your heater radiator to fail and spray coolant on the inside of your windshield, underdash and your windshield wiper rack to turn on and fail, which is costly to repair along with your motor mounts. The right front tire wears away much faster than the rest, especially on the inside edge.

Dirt will accumulate inside the rear fender liner where it gets trapped by the fuel tank filler hose. It is a good idea to peel back the fender liner and clean out this dirt with a stick or wooden spoon and a hose or the fender will rust.

There have been a couple of electrical issues which prevent the power antenna from going up or down without blowing the fuse; the door and rear courtesy lights from working, power mirror adjusters and defrosters and I suspect seat heaters from working. Once the passenger rear courtesy light wiring rubbed on some sharp exposed metal causing a short which prevented the light and antenna from working. Despite the issues the 164 is a real joy to drive and turns more heads than a centerfold taped to a stop sign.

 

"failed trunk hinge mounting points"

I think that the cars with the trunk lid struts, similar to those used for the hood, instead of just the springs as my 91S has, are likely to have that hinge/fender problem because of the way they are mounted at the hinge end.

My LS has struts of course, and I checked that mounting very closely. Luckily, they are not close to the inside of the fender, but I could see that if they are highly overloaded by a high force closing, they could distort and bend toward the fender because of the high developed moment at the hinge. The hinge needs to be more substantial, or that end of the struts mounted to a different location.

When I open/close the trunk lid on the LS, I do it somewhat slowly, letting it move with minimal force. Takes several seconds longer, but it gives peace of mind. Also, the spoiler of the S is susceptible to cracking, the paint at least, if used to open and close the lid. As mentioned above, NO ONE touches the trunk lids of my cars, esp the LS. The S, not having those struts, has no problems with the hinge problem. I personally would think about changing to the trunk lid springs instead of using struts.

"not pull on the plastic (door) handle"

The handles, both inside and outside, are metal. Very poor metal at that, and a poor design to boot. You could almost bet that a modern high density plastic might work as well if not better.

"The right front tire wears away much faster than the rest, especially on the inside edge"

In my experience with both our 164's, both front tires tend to wear at about the same rate if the rest of the alignment is the same/close for both sides, esp if one doesn't "hotrod" the tires. The inside edge wear of the front tires is due to too much toe out. I get an alignment with close to zero toe, and then adjust the toe myself to try to get even wear across the tread on both front tires, and centering the steering wheel at the same time. The outside tire may end up hopping a little in the wet in full lock turns, but I can live with s small amount of that to get better tire wear. I've never spent the money to find out what I end up with. I suppose I should.

Also, the specs for the rear toe call for too much toe in for my book, causing high wear there as well. I should think that the toe in should be reduce somewhat, I'm guessing half? But not zero, as I've read that rear toe in contributes to the stability of the car, esp in a straight line.

The worst example of this type of weird tire alignment was my bro's old Fiat 850 roadster. That poor thing wore out tires in no time at all because of extreme toe front and rear.

Rotate the tires front to rear every few thousand miles.

 

Thanks for your reply. The Alfa Owner published "New Alignment Values" due to a TSB dated 10-14-94 as follows:
Front camber is -1.1 to -2.4 degrees
Front caster is +1.0 to +2.6 degrees
Front total toe is 0.0 to -2 mm
Rear camber is -1.8 to +0.1 degrees
Rear total toe is +4 to +6 mm

Note only the inside edge of the right front tires wears or shows Camber wear. If the toe in was off both tires would have sort of a 'feathered in' look on each tread. Unfortunately the camber is not easily adjusted on these cars. I believe it can be done using small shims but it is by trial and error.

I thought the broken handle was plastic but I never saw it taken off the car (warranty repair!) it must have been a 'pot metal' casting like the inner door handles. The 164L I currently have on ebay had to have an inner handle replaced. Nudge, I think you may still have time to place a bid on a green Alfa with 164,000 smiles ending in a day or two!

Since the trunk hinges have made it 20 years I am not too worried; I just continue to be careful when opening or closing the trunk.