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Installing liners and pistons without taking engine out

34K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  nealric  
#1 · (Edited)
Hello friends!

Repairing an oil-into-water leak, I had to pull the liners out (although at the end I believe the problem was in the head gasket, but it was so much fun!). I followed the fantastic instrucions given in this post by DaveC (Thank you so much...)

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spider-1966-up/6036-oil-pan-removal.html

The only thing I missed here were some pictures, and that is the reason for writting this post. Hopefully they will help someone that follows the same procedure.

First of all, and with the only intention of putting together all the information, here is the explanation of the procedure given by DaveC (Thanks again!).

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You can do a ring job without opening the bottom of the engine. I've done it. Here is the procedure courtesy of the Alfa Digest...

Removing Pistons
First, remove cylinder head. Now the object is to replace pistons and liners and not do the bottom end of the engine. Clamp a vice grip on the edge of a liner using an old copper exhaust manifold gasket folded over the liner edge so as to not chip or mar the inner surface. Rotate the engine, by hand, so the piston will come up against the jaw of the vice grip and raithe the liner out of the block. Do this to all liners. so that only the piston and rods looking looking at you. Two pistons will be up and two will be down. Put some rags in the liner holes in the block so as to not lose anything in the lower portion of the engine. Remove one of the circlips and push the piston pin out of the rod. Remove piston. Do this to all pistons.

Now the neat part.

If you are replacing the piston and liners or just reconditioning the old ones (ring job) does not matter. First, place a piston in the bottom of a liner pressing the rings as they slide into the liner making sure ring gaps do not line up. Push the piston only far enough into the liner so the pin hole is still open. Put a circlip into the piston on the side closest to the block. (Remember, Arrow on top of piston points to exhast side of engine and orings are fitted on liner bottoms.) Start with number four piston assembly and rod at top of stroke. Lower piston assembly over rod and push home the pin. Insert circlip on the piston and push the liner down into the block. Obviously well oiled pieces make it easier. Install liner hold down on number four and rotate engine to bring #3 rod up so you can install the next assembly. Here is the trick part. Bring up Number two rod and install only the piston without the liner. Now bring up number one rod and install piston/liner assembly. Now to install the liner on Number two by loosly tightening a large hose clamp (I tied a piece of fishing wire to the clamp.) around the piston ring of number two. Lower the liner over number two carefully over the piston and pressing carefully so as to push the hose clamp down while the rings go into the bottom of the liner. Liners are camfered so it will easily accept the rings. Once the liner is over the ring take a long screwdriver and push the hose clamp down into the block. Twiddle the clamp so that the screw end can be unscrewed by the long screwdriver. Unscrew the clamp fully and pull the clamp out with the fishing line. Push the liner into the block. You are done.

I installed new piston and liners on my 87 Spider last year. This took me about two hours. One liner was a bit stuck and I used a large pipe and with piston at bottom of stroke I inserted the pipe into the liner and rocked the pipe a bit. This freed up the piston. Others came out easy.

If you are just doing a ring job, no need to remove pistons. just use the hose clamp method as a ring compressor.

Good luck
Dave

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#2 ·
Here you can see the block, cleaned and ready to receive the liners. It is important to clean thoroughly around the holes. Otherwise debris between block and liner seal can be a big problem, and you may not be able to push the liner all the way down.
 

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#4 ·
Pushing home the pin and specially inserting the circlip on the piston is a tricky part. Do not forget to cover all holes, including the one beneath the piston you are mounting just in case the circlip decides to go for a fly!
If this happens, you would have to open the oil pan to recover it.
 

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#5 · (Edited)
This is how I hold the rings in place. With a brace it is easy to release the compressor, just cutting.
As you can see in these two pictures, I used the procedure with #1 piston. This was not just for fun. I accidentaly pulled the sleve out when inserting #1 circlip. It was a good practice for #3 afterwards!
 

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#6 ·
Here you can see # 3 piston already mounted with the homemade rings compression system, before inserting #4 sleve+piston.
You can also see the fishing wires I used to hold both metal strap and plastic brace.
Sorry about the bad quality of the third picture. We were at the critical moment (fishing the compressor with the sleve already in place) and the fotographer was a little nervous :D
 

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#11 ·
Super cool, Spaceladen!
 
#12 ·
Working on this right now. Its not going bad at all. One sticking point, grumpy wrist pins during disassembly.

I went to Lowes and found some items that helped.

1682327


I ended up having to shorten the threaded rod. And I did not fit the jam nuts on the left end, too tight against the engine block wall. Didn't need it anyhow since the jam nuts on the right allowed me to prevent the rod from spinning. I used an extendable magnet to ease the lock washer and nut on the left on to the threaded rod once I placed the threaded rod through the wrist pin. The lock washer needs to be big enough to hold the wrist pin, but small enough to clear the rod end opening. The PVC needs to allow the wrist pin the enter it during extraction. I could hold the lock nuts on the right with a socket wrench while turning the middle nut to pull the wrist pin through.

1682328


Went slow and careful to not damage rod end internal surface. Just make sure left washer is proper size to clear internal rod end opening.
 
#16 ·
Working on this right now. Its not going bad at all. One sticking point, grumpy wrist pins during disassembly.
You just need to get the wrist pin out far enough to grab it with a small pair of vice grips. Then you just twist the pun back and forth while pulling it out.
 
#13 ·
Not being critical but I would think once you've got the head off you're about 90% there to removing the block.
(2) motor mount bolts
(6) bell housing bolts
(3) starter motor bolts
(4) trans cross member
(1) clutch flex line
(1) tach cable

All of those are easily accessed with the head off and way easier than trying to working on the motor in situ...
 
#17 ·
I've done this several times over the years. Usually due to piston slap. Its fairly easy and does save time over pulling the engine and setting it up on an engine stand, etc., etc.

You only need to remove the lower pan and undo the number 2 rod nuts to pull the piston and liner out. After that its almost just like putting the jugs on a Volkswagen bug motor. Which is how I came up with doing it this way in the early 90's when I had to replace a piston and liner set under warranty.
 
#18 ·
Hi,
I'm in the process of trying to remove the liners in situ.
I tried "hammering" it out with the Piston or applying significant force turning the crank pulley to have the piston push it out, but without luck.

Any tips?

(In the pictures - using vice grips on the liners top and a long lever wrench to turn the pulley)
Image

Image
 
#19 ·
Hi,
I'm in the process of trying to remove the liners in situ.
I tried "hammering" it out with the Piston or applying significant force turning the crank pulley to have the piston push it out, but without luck.

Any tips?

(In the pictures - using vice grips on the liners top and a long lever wrench to turn the pulley) View attachment 1858415
View attachment 1858414
I have found liners difficult enough to remove with the motor disassembled on an engine stand. If they are really stuck, that may be the only option.
 
#20 ·
I did this more than once, early in my life succumbing to Alfa madness.

I quickly learned a few important points…

Removing the engine and gearbox together from a 105 is not difficult, and takes less time than trying to do heart surgery while straddling an engine bay,

As I ALWAYS found something besides questionable pistons or rings, I would be motivated by the “WIIT” problem (While I’m in there). Since these other issues were easier with the engine out, I just tooled up to make extractions and insertions a quick piece of work.
 
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#26 ·
Move the sediment away from the bottom of the liners or flush it out thru the drain plug in the side of the block.
Then get a can of kroil or deep creep and spray the whole can into the cooling chamber. Wait a week or so then try pulling them with the vice grips.
Or pulling the no2 piston and rod out like it described in the previous post. Then try pulling the liner with vice grips. If it still won’t come out. You can take a hammer and a sharp metal chisel and break the liner out.
 
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#27 ·
I’ve been reading the responses in this thread with interest. Have never even considered a piston/liner replacement in situ. Seems like once you have done all the work to remove the head, your 2/3 of the way to pulling the engine. Jim G is THE expert based on his dealership experience. So I will take his word!
 
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#30 ·
This was quite common back in the day as Jim G said.. I used to pull #1 piston and rod. This procedure was done on fresh engine at the race track when an experiment went wrong. Put the engine on TDC #1 piston pin goes rearward #4 pin goes forward put #2-3 pistons up top and pull #3 rearward and #2 forward. Removing the pin clips can be a dick but very doable. I used zip ties to squeeze the rings when assembling. There is actually a slight chamfer on the bottom of the liner helps a lot when sliding them over the pistons.