[DPeterson3]

In the US, 1996 is the newest non-imported car we can bring in.

This is absolutely untrue.

There are many cars, including Alfas, that were originally certified to meet either US or Canadian emission and safety standards, but not subsequently imported to the US.

I owned a 1999 Alfa 916 GTV that was accepted into the US under these rules.

Please stop repeating BS someone told you without bothering to check the real truth.

 

[Aggie57]

When Pete says Holden engine he really means GM; Holden made them in Australia for Commodores and a version of the blocks were sent to Alfa in Italy for these 3.2 engines. The heads were designed and manufactured in Italy IIRC.

As Pete and Dean say these cars have a reputation for being heavy, and the spider versions for also being very flexible. The platform was shared with the 159. If anything the 159 wagon was the best looking of the lot, best had with the 2.4 JTD engine by all reports.

 

[alfettaparts2]

The heads were designed and manufactured in Italy IIRC.

I don't think that's correct however I understand this is a point of conjecture. Alfa massaged the intake system, I don't believe they changed the heads. Indeed like the JTS when you inevitably replace the timing chain you use GM parts.

Quick calculation would have petrol in the US at a similar price here. Must be killing the people who drive those massive pick ups.

 

[Del]

Yup, Costco and Sam's Club are usually 20 to 30 cents a gallon less expensive. They want you to fill up there and then go in and buy that big TV.

 

[Aggie57]

I don't think that's correct however I understand this is a point of conjecture. Alfa massaged the intake system, I don't believe they changed the heads. Indeed like the JTS when you inevitably replace the timing chain you use GM parts.

Quick calculation would have petrol in the US at a similar price here. Must be killing the people who drive those massive pick ups.

More than happy to be corrected in that one, it’s sad either way to remember as we write these words of the factories and knowledge lost when the auto industry pulled up stumps in Australia.

Yes, gas (petrol) is pricey in parts of the US. It does vary though depending on local and state taxes.

 

[alfettaparts2]

More than happy to be corrected in that one, it’s sad either way to remember as we write these words of the factories and knowledge lost when the auto industry pulled up stumps in Australia.

I make it a habit to stay away from Holden's but I am sure in my discussions with Oratzio, who has heaps of experience on both cars, he can confirmed this. Something to chew over Friday fish n chips next time your in Melbourne.

I have huge sympathy for the workers who lost their jobs in the auto manufacturing industry. That's where it stops. It might not be a popular opinion but Australia has never made cars good enough to compete on the world market. Look at the main stays. Falcon, Commodore, Sigma/Magna. They are all really bad cars. I'll bite my tongue when it comes to anything from the US other to say that if anyone thinks a trans am was a good car they can stay away from my alfa 😁

 

[Aggie57]

I make it a habit to stay away from Holden's but I am sure in my discussions with Oratzio, who has heaps of experience on both cars, he can confirmed this. Something to chew over Friday fish n chips next time your in Melbourne.

I have huge sympathy for the workers who lost their jobs in the auto manufacturing industry. That's where it stops. It might not be a popular opinion but Australia has never made cars good enough to compete on the world market. Look at the main stays. Falcon, Commodore, Sigma/Magna. They are all really bad cars. I'll bite my tongue when it comes to anything from the US other to say that if anyone thinks a trans am was a good car they can stay away from my alfa 😁

Actually they do make some really good cars in the US, you see quite a few of them on the roads in Australia mainly going by the name of Toyota, Mercedes, and BMW. We just bought a GLE 350 made in Alabama, quality is excellent.

 

[alfettaparts2]

Actually they do make some really good cars in the US, you see quite a few of them on the roads in Australia mainly going by the name of Toyota, Mercedes, and BMW. We just bought a GLE 350 made in Alabama, quality is excellent.

I think we both know that's not what my point was.

 

[Aggie57]

I think we both know that's not what my point was.

Of course.

 

[PSk]

I think the word alfettaparts2 should have used is "designed", not made
Pete

 

[Del]

Anyone who thinks the Trans Am of decades ago represents the quality of cars made in the US these days...

And, even the Holden (aka Chevy here) we own is still tight and quiet (except when tromping on the gas), with no flaws that we can find, even after 52k miles of DD (except for having an automatic tranny, lol). Modern cars in general are much better than they used to be.

 

[PSk]

True

Pete

 

[alfettaparts2]

Of course.

It is remarkable who, how and why manufactures make cars in the global marketplace. A US built BMW, Mercedes are built in India? I remember it being a scandal when one manufacture rebadged a car from mazda to ford. Fully admit I have little knowledge of the current industry.

 

[alfettaparts2]

Anyone who thinks the Trans Am of decades ago represents the quality of cars made in the US these days...

And, even the Holden (aka Chevy here) we own is still tight and quiet (except when tromping on the gas), with no flaws that we can find, even after 52k miles of DD (except for having an automatic tranny, lol). Modern cars in general are much better than they used to be.

Absolutely Del. My point, if I had one, was to highlight how bad the car industry was, or should I say how far behind the car industry was here for so long. There are several factors that attributed to the demise of the Australian car industry. One of them was how bad the cars they made here were, for decades. I am sure your Chevy is a perfectly acceptable mode of transport but compare it to a many European cars of the same ilk and its chalk and cheese. I don't know how far away from a commodore your Chevy is but the commodore is a horrible car to drive compared to an equivalent BMW or Mercedes or Alfa ect. It is primitive refined agricultural machinery. That's one of the main factors they no longer make them.
Of course I wouldn't suggest a trans am has anything to do with modern manufacturing but I will stand by my point that it highlights the fact that for many decades bad cars were made that, in some cases, eventually brought about the demise of the industry.

 

[Del]

"I am sure your Chevy is a perfectly acceptable mode of transport but compare it to a many European cars of the same ilk and its chalk and cheese"

Having driven many a car, both domestic and foreign (Asian and European), made, I don't really think that is true these days. In the US, Mercedes has a spotty reliability reputation, my friend's beautiful Audi A6 has had electronics problems, and his Porsche Boxter S has tranny problems. Alfa has had problems with the new Giulia. The really really expensive European cars end up mostly being garage queens, with little mileage on them. American cars are able to hold their own in quality and performance for the most part, having been pressured by the quality of many Asian cars, not European. Depends on how much you want to pay of course.

Well, have to admit my brother did put 180k miles on his Jaguar, but then it was actually a Ford with Jag styling. My own experience with European cars is that in general they are no more reliable or well built than others.

Of course, I do admit the "Chevy" we personally have is a step above most foreign cars, as it is well set up with the Corvette engine, huge Brembo brakes, the automatic magnetic shocks, stiffer stabilizer bars, fully adaptable/adjustable sport transmission, steering, and brakes for various degrees of response, from laid back touring to full race competition. Holds it's own.

And, the Holden body has proven to be well built. 52k miles of DD with no problems is not just a drive around the block. Holden did a good job with it. Cannot speak for the ordinary Holdens made for the Aussie market.

 

[alfettaparts2]

Now we start to get into semantics because one could argue the driving experience is or isn't related to things like reliability, longevity, resale value. If I gave you the choice of a 1000 mile weekend away in a BMW or a Holden I know which car I would rather spend my time in. Might not be so happy come service time. In fact come service time you would probably wish you bought Japanese or Korean. But its all just opinion and what do I know after all I drive around in a Mito. At best its a modern day Daihatsu charade with a fiat drive train built in god knows what country with an alfa badge that lets face it, its a shadow of itself. A parody of itself.

On a positive note there is some discussion here about local manufacturing of electric vehicles.

In reference to the original post I would imagine any alfa pre 1990's traditionalist would be disappointed driving a brera.

 

[Rogue Leader]

This is absolutely untrue.

There are many cars, including Alfas, that were originally certified to meet either US or Canadian emission and safety standards, but not subsequently imported to the US.

I owned a 1999 Alfa 916 GTV that was accepted into the US under these rules.

Please stop repeating BS someone told you without bothering to check the real truth.

Ok I've never heard this ever before. I would be interested to know more. Is there a list somewhere or some other information?

 

[planetmojo2]

On the Holden engine question-- This is the little I know about that question. Please correct me in any areas that are not correct.

I was contacted by a gentleman in northern New York who was interested in buying ALFA engine parts for his 164 24v 3.0 engine into a GTV6 chassis project. He changed his mind after doing more research. He told me he had decided to go with a V6 from a Chevy Camaro. This engine was based on the ALFA 24v 3.0, where GM had purchased the licensing rights from ALFA. GM had swapped out the rubber timing belts for a more robust chain drive, and enlarged the displacement to around 3.6 or 3.7, and was pumping out 350HP. He found a Camaro in a salvage yard for the engine. I heard later that the Camaro engine was also used in Holdens.

He added that if anyone came down on him for using a GM engine in an ALFA, he could reply that the basic engine was design was originally from ALFA.. the chain timing drive would save him all the headaches of the rubber belts... it had about 200HP more than the ALFA 12v 2.5... and on a cross-country drive, he could stop at any Chevy dealership across the nation for parts and service! So, no apologies to the purists. I couldn't argue with that reasoning.

Peter

 

[elsieker]

He calls this engine a Busso so he is wrong?

 

[Del]

"This engine was based on the ALFA 24v 3.0, where GM had purchased the licensing rights from ALFA" Camaro V6?

Really? I've never heard this. Interesting, to say the least. I wonder if it would really just fit right in.