Does the stamping look Kosher? What is the opinion on value?
How much value would be added to GTA that is missing a 1600?

Thank you all....

Regards, Alberto

 

I think seller could provide a better photo of the serial number.

 

The engine was last offered for sale in Italy in 2021. At the time, the seller wrote that the differences in the font of the numbers suggested that the engine had been re-stamped. The cylinder head was original from the GTAJ and not a new die-cast. The seller had purchased the block and cylinder head together. The oil pan was aluminum, and the seller also had an original magnesium pan separately; it was magnesium-colored, not black. The block was complete with all accessories, including the original starter motor. It was offered as a fully restored engine and was bench tested, with photo documentation of the work performed. It appears that this engine was sold to the current seller in 2022, but the tiles in the background are the same as in 2021.

 

Those numbers sure look mighty funny, specially the first two ZEROES compared to the one in 502.
Is someone trying to pull a fast one?

The trash bin and the yellow dust pan are exactly the same. I think this may be a touch bogus.
Why use old photos, ran out of film?
Attention to detail, is in all movies

 

I would encourage all to enlarge the photo. To my innocent eyes, the block has been peened,
to push back old digits and form new ones. Is it only my eyes?

 

 

There must be more crooks involved with GTAs than any other form of crime!!

So sick of this
Pete

 

Reported it to BaT. Sent the enlarged photo and a few comments.
Let's see what they do about it.

 

This is getting interesting, read latest comment, #11

 

It is possible that the block is a replacement for a damaged original. I personally know of one in particular where the original block had both sides punched out by #3 conrod back in the day. The owner/dealer simply got in a new un-numbered block and factory tool re-stamped the correct number for the car chassis number/license records. All this was done within the dealership and was considered to be normal course of events to keep everything legally correct. Given that the blocks were all the same from that period on, there was nothing special about a GTA block other than the number when it was allocated to that model.
I have the original holed block as wall art. (well, under bench anyway)

 

Same for My Engine. In Brno 1975 a conrod got flying. They continued with a blank spare block (maybe original GTA spec as there are no holes for the fuel pump, so you don’t need the blanking plate). During my Restauration I let the blank block restamp with the original number (Unfortunately the idiot made a „5“ too less). Anyway, it’s well documented with the pictures of the old damaged engine and the change is also states in the FIVA papers. So part of the racing history I would say…

 

This is an interesting tread about bat and some of their auctions, porsche realated, but the seller also had a gta for sale recently:

BaT - Bill Noon's 1989 911 Turbo S Auction - Pelican Parts Forums

This thread is in reference to this auction (link below) on Bring a Trailer, as I feel the need to correct the fiction being pushed by this seller.

forums.pelicanparts.com

I think some cars and items should not make it to the site...
I also have the feeling a shift is happening in the comments. I used to love bat and learned a lot on cars through the comments by very very knowledgeable people but lately big problem cars sold and in the comments only "fantastic buy" - "you stole it" - ...

 

The seller has responded to my question that the cylinder head is a correct 1600 GTA.

Yet It does not look sand cast, there is no part number cast across the front and there is no serial number cast on the exhaust side, all that I am accustomed to see on GTA 1600 heads.

Can someone familiar with the 1300 GTAj head please have a look and comment, here.

Thx

Ken

 

The seller has responded to my question that the cylinder head is a correct 1600 GTA.

Yet It does not look sand cast, there is no part number cast across the front and there is no serial number cast on the exhaust side, all that I am accustomed to see on GTA 1600 heads.

Can someone familiar with the 1300 GTAj head please have a look and comment, here.

Thx

Ken

Ken,
The head looks about right for the later die cast 1300 and 1600 version, including markings on the front.
I suspect the engine is actually made up of separate item parts and built up into a complete engine.
Still a worthy assembly of some hard to get parts.
I'm building up a 1900cc monosleeve GTA engine from parts that have certainly never been together before. I have them as loose items collected over years with no real purpose, so restoring GTA 752556 with a big bore period GTA engine for road use seems like a fun thing to me! Original engine safely aside, refreshed and in the corner to remain with the car.

 

Hi Ken, the head is from a GTA 1300, but at the time they were also mounted on the GTA 1600 because they were interchangeable. The engine block was probably re-stamped at the time, but in person it doesn't look as bad as it does in the photo.... I'm writing this because the engine is mine, and I don't intend to defraud anyone. I'm available for any further questions, photos, or videos. For my rebuild of my GTA, I had purchased several spare parts over the years. This engine block is part of a batch of spare parts purchased by me in the 1990s, along with the crankshafts and the cylinder head. During the restoration, I decided to prepare two engines; one is currently mounted on my GTA 1600, the other is the one I decided to sell. All the preparation work was done to the highest standards by highly qualified personnel. The oil pan is made of aluminum, while the valve cover is made of magnesium. The carburetors are NOT DCOE 14s, but fully overhauled DCOE 13s. I'm available for any questions. Best regards Matteo Grandi

 

Hi Matteo,
We must have been typing a response at the same time. Funny, we almost tell the same story! And both RHD GTAs, what a coincidence!
Regards, Vince.

 

Pics on BaT show 2 different blocks... wach out for rear side.....

 

That is explained in the questions/answers on BAT listing.

 

"The engine block was probably re-stamped at the time, but in person it doesn't look as bad as it does in the photo.... "

So, nothing is certain or guaranteed at this time, as in, it may be, or may be not. OK.
To me, that is the twilight zone.

It does no look as bad? Huh?

 

Going vintage racing? It will be fine. I've an AUSCA GTA engine made at AUSCA in early '66 from parts. I've another, currently set up as a single plug race engine with a un-numbered block. This was a dyno cam test engine.

When Ausca raced and built these cars, no-one cared if the engine was original to the chassis, engine made up of early or later GTA components and more. These were race cars! Autodelta and Alfa supplied AUSCA parts, we built engines and went racing.

 

Pretty cool when you have an engine in the living room!

 

Gordon, you are absolutely right, yet this engine is sold on the premise of it being a 'proper' GTA block, which is more or less the 'issue'. If not an issue, then it ought not carry a 'premium price.

It may as well be any ole 1600 with the GTA add-ons.

On the rest, I fully agree with you.

Regards,
Alberto

 

Do you know how to tell? Years ago at AUSCA, Ron Neil told me to get a late GTA block out of our parts collection for him. There were at least 20 blocks under the benches. I asked him how to tell which was which, how to tell a "late" one. Ron told me that the later GTA blocks (Not my own earlier unnumbered GTA block from Autodelta) were heavier than all others having more alloy up around the upper main webs. The weight difference isn't much, but indeed, late GTA blocks weighed on a bathroom scale were heavier than others. I was amazed at the time. This was about late 1966 or early 1967 I believe.

 

There are basically 3 series of early 105 1600 (cartridge oil filter) engine block.
The first: With unreinforced mains below bores, scalloped bore holes and flat #5 rear cap. 18.4kg.
First sedans and GTs.

Second type: reinforced webs main area in block at #2 & #4, thicker in #3. Scalloped bores holes and flat rear #5 cap. 19kg

Third type: reinforced web mains #2 & #4 and thick #3, No scalloped bore holes and new arched #5 rear cap. 19.5kg.

GTA blocks are typically the third type which became the standard production block across all models by about '66 maybe.
Vince.

 

Great information! Thanks for sharing.