Looking good, Jason What paint did you use on your valve covers? I did mine with POR 15, not realizing it's not UV inhibited. They look really crappy. Your looks a little better, but faded also.

 

I used a SEM wrinkle finish paint. High heat too! It works great! Thanks Richard!

PS Flash fades it more than it really is.

 

Between a curvilinear timing belt and a hydraulic de-tensioner, there should zero worries about timing belt issues from now on. Looks great!

Did you source those pulleys from European salvage? If so, what engines?

 

I agree. I have sourced them for a customer through a salvage yard that I know of (Belgium), mine are brand new except for oil pump pulley (sourced from customer in Brazil). I have 2 more new crank shaft pulleys and mate have leads on used pulleys, not sure if any new are left. I was lucky and ordered them from Alfa in Italy, they had a pair left with the hubs that don't fit. Those will end up on the shelf collecting dust forever!! They are pretty though!

If anyone is interested in this, just let me know? I can source everything you would need, not a hard job, just a little more involved that a standard water pump, timing belt/tensioner job.

As Steve mentioned the camshaft is either shorter on the 1998> GTV engine or the head is slightly different. The new hub and pulley stuck out too far from head, from memory about 25mm or so. Would never line up with other pulleys properly nor fit the timing covers. Either that or taper on cam is different.

Thanks!

 

There are two 12v V6 Alfa euro cam pulley options for this project but not two later cam pulley hubs as Jason and I have found out at his expense. I have project thread on this, too. See attched links.

NOTE LESSON LEARNED by Jason: The latest 60655130 cam pulley hubs with fixed dowel pin for the 60655129 cam pulleys without dowel pins WILL NOT WORK on our GTV6/Milano or 164 12v V6 engines. These hubs which are used only on 1998 GTV 12v V6 turbo is seems and up which have shorter taper shaft ends on the camshafts.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...4-168-1991-1995/292074-my-later-euro-12v-v6-timing-belt-cam-pulley-project.html


http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...orums/164-168-1991-1995/424433-some-differences-164-12v-v6-cam-pulley-hubs.html

 

I also, have sourced enough facelift gears, pulleys, hubs and timing belts belts to do my two 164s.

I think using the original three piece hub with oring on rear head will give extra clearance to get rear hub off cam shaft and out of head for either replacing oil seal in rear head or actually pulling rear head off with engine still in car. I found it is rather a tight fit to get one piece hub out of rear head even with transmission mount disconnected and tranny lowered onto subframe. I had a time of it getting fixed hub and rear head off 92 164L about six months ago for a friend.

I am sure that is why Alfa redesigned the threaded 130 hub with inverted dowel pin so you could remove pulley first and then pull out new style hub from rear head.

Even though the 130 hubs on the right side of pix looks so much shorter that two piece hub with oring or the one piece hub and gears set at same height in picture when installed you can see the later cams have to be shorter to get pulleys to line up.

 

Notice how much farther out 130 hub places the cam pulley away from lining up with aux shaft pulley.

 

More:

 

Even got a hydraulic tensioner...nice

 

Yes Indeed!

Del, I can get you a price list for the project.

Goats, Like Steve says, deeper/wider teeth as opposed to trapezoidal teeth which are not as deep and tend to slip. This was the Facelift before the 24V came out. Now this is the norm.
Less chance to slip rear cam. ever again! Especially since I have hydraulic detensioner.

 

Interesting change, to change the belt to the rounded teeth? Would like to see a final list of parts, changes required, and estimated approximate cost.

 

Final list of parts needed to convert early 12v V6 87-93 later Euro cam timing belt




Here are the parts needed to convert a 1987-1993 3.0L 12v V6 Alfa Busso engine to later Euro set up with deeper rounded teeth on cam timing belt and pulleys:

1. Cam pulleys with dowel pins 60808899 or 60500451 Use M8 bolts vice M7.
1A. Cam pulleys without dowel pins 60655129 (needs to be tapped for M8 bolts and have Size D drill rod dowel pins pressed in).

2. Cam pulley hubs reuse original 2 piece 60569080 hubs with 60507327 oring
2A. one piece cam pulley hubs 60500453 (found in some later 91 and up 164 engines as well later other 12v euro models.
2B. Cam pulleys 60595757 and 60655127 should also work

Note: 60655130 later GTV hubs with dowel pin will not work


3. Aux shaft pulley 60513853 no known subs was 60808082

4. Crank pulley cog gear 60500465 no known subs was 60807893

5. Timing belt 60500466 was 60807898 or ISORAN or Dayco 94411 134RP254C

6. Timing Belt tensioner either oil fed , mechanical or Zat.

 

I don't get it. Whats the advantage to this? doesn't look like the pulleys are clockable?

 

The reason why



Because, cam pulleys, aux pulley, crank pulley cog gear and timing belt have deeper rounded teeth like the 24v instead of thin flat teeth of original 1981-93 V6 12v Alfa engines. So on 12v engine less chance to jump time.

As for clockable cam pulley hubs the 12v V6 engines have always had keyed to cams pulley hubs. If you want to change cam timing at all you have to elongate bolt holes and dowel pin holes in hubs to adjust pulleys.

 

Oh Steve posted it. I do have some items in stock but would have to get the others.

 

Prices will be a crap shoot.

I found some new and used parts on ebay and got Difatta to order one set of pulleys and they had some belts in stock. Even got one cog gear from ARI-Orlando. As I said i have enough now to do my two 164s at next belt change.

 

I have belt, crank pulley, can get the others. Yes, hit and miss with pricing. But I'd say all said and done your looking at around $300-400 to upgrade. Just all depends

 

Based on parts I just found on ebay two cam pulleys, aux gear and crank gear about $500 for new parts plus belt and shipping.

 

If I were rebuilding an engine and could get the parts, I'd do it. Given the track record of belt integrity with a Hydraulic De-Tensioner installed, I feel pretty comfortable even with a trapezoidal profile belt.

 

I have to agree with you John.

 

All timed and ready to go. I turned it over about 10 times just for fun, well to make sure it was tracking right and everything was smooth. It seems to be right on. The belt runs right down the middle of the pulleys which I prefer. The originals seemed to want to run on the side of the pulley which in my opinion seemed strange but never an issue.

Draining coolant system and then will button it all up and start it up. I pretty excited over this project even though it does not give me more HP or anything like that but I do know the belt is stout with those deep teeth. I never worried too much with the old style and hydraulic belt, I have to say.

 

Well, She's running. Everything seems normal. The only thing that was bothersome to me was that the rear cam pulley and oil pump pulley have a different alignment than the front cam pulley. On the front the belt rides along the edge but in the rear it rides about 1mm from the edge. Under further inspection I believe for this to be normal. I checked my old pulleys and the wear pattern on those pulley's matches the new ones. I guess I just never noticed it previously./Users/parts/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Previews/2015/09/04/20150904-091134/IMG_7246.jpg

 

Today I converted my spare 6096 mile 164L engine to the later Euro 60500466 timing belt, 60808899 cam pulleys with factory dowel pins (ss by 60655129 pulleys that Jason used with added pressed fit D drill rod dowel pins), 60500453 one piece pulley keyed hubs, 60513853 aux shaft pulley and 60500465 crankshaft cog gear. I also used original oil fed 60808222 detensior/tensioner.

The minor problem I foresee is the next time we need to remove cam pulley hubs is we will have to modify/drilled out our M7 bolt cam pulley hub pullers to accept M8 bolts because we had to install M8x125 bolts after threading 60655129 Euro cam pulleys to M8x125 threads. The used 60808899 pulleys I have were already threads to that size. I used a three legged puller to pop off one piece 60500453 hubs since engine out of car but thst would not be possible on rear cam hub with engine in a 164.

I plan to still use the old two piece 60569080 cam pulley hub with 60507327 oring on rear head in case I would ever need to remove rear head with engine in 164. Still would have to use pancake Totally Alfa puller drilled out to accept M8 bolts or my Home Depot homemade plumbing flange puller with larger M8 bolt holes, too.

Here are the Euro parts I used and the engine set up at the start at top dead center (TDC) using template and marks on front crank pulley.

 

Installing stepped pin in oil fed tensioner, right cam and left cam timing marks, pin in tensioner and remover crank pulley nut with timing belt still in place to hold crank in place.

 

Removing crank pulley, aux pulley and setting up cam pulleys and water pump pulley to remove:

 

Setting up to remove cam pulleys:

Note: pancake puller on rear cam and OEM factory puller on front cam.

 

Front cam pulley hub hits thermostat. Once thermostat removed comes right off. Used small puller to remove crank cog gear. Used antiseize on new crank cog gear before I installed it.

 

Old pulley alignment and new pulley aligment checks then after new euro belt on rechecking timing marks

 

Pulling euro pulley with one piece hub back off with three legged puller because M7 bolt pulleys will not work with M8 bolts without modifying/drilling out holes in pullers to accept longer and larger diameter M8 bolts.

I removed euro set up and reinstalled old flat tooth set up and stashed engine back under bench.

I didn't wanted to let new euro timing belt age out of the box until I am ready to install it and use engine.

 

I'd like to see where your belt rides after a some rotations of the motor. I took mine on a spin today and all seems well. Still not idea why both pulleys are the same with the timing belt alignment. I suppose maybe since this is a 1993 engine something could be different. Only thing I can do is shim the front pulley. I also used a straight edge to make sure pulleys were in-fact straight. Yup!