[vroom]

These pictures were taken by me at the Modena classic car show in 1989.


Certainly a real car..

any idea of the Vin #?

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Hello Vroom,

Thanks for the pictures! Andrea Bagnoli has/had an Alfa Romeo concession in Udine. His adres is/was
ANDREA BAGNOLI e C. S.A.S. – VIA SAVORGNANA 43 33100 - UDINE
He drove the Vernasca Silver Flag with a GTA in 2003.
He also drove a number of racing cars in the 70´s and 80´s.

I do not know this GTAm and without a chassisnumber it is difficult to see if this is a real one or a nice replica. Any more info from where these pictures came from? Anybody that can shine a light on this car?

Ciao, Olaf

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Yes, thanks. Here is a copy of the color chart for USA cars, the cars the GTAM's were supposed to be based on. I guess sand beige is beige cava. Is the Autumn gold like Giallo Ochre or the 1971 #42 Spa car?? Also the red GTAM's look darker that AR 501. I have noticed photos of Autodelta cars show a dark red, darker that the Ferrari SEFAC cars. Wich Alfa red is it??


Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

Hello Tom,

Have a look at this link: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/33431-post1.html
It is the first post of the 1972 Alfa Romeo Color Chart thread. It contains all the translations for the Italian, German, French and English colornames that were available at that moment. Although two years later, I saw most of the GTAm colours still present on this chart.

Ciao, Olaf

 

[F1 Tommy]

Thank you Olaf,

Also the US model 105.51 1750 GTV's I have seen started as low as 1530021. The Fusi book is off on the 1750 GTV serial numbers.

The Alfa red the Autodelta factory T33's look like is AR530(the same color as my GTV6 Balocco). The AR509 looks to dark to be the Autodelta color. Maybe AR501 is the right color for the GTAM's. Kodachrome sometimes does darken with age.

Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Thank you Olaf,

Also the US model 105.51 1750 GTV's I have seen started as low as 1530021. The Fusi book is off on the 1750 GTV serial numbers.

The Alfa red the Autodelta factory T33's look like is AR530(the same color as my GTV6 Balocco). The AR509 looks to dark to be the Autodelta color. Maybe AR501 is the right color for the GTAM's. Kodachrome sometimes does darken with age.

Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

Hello Tom,

I checked the book "Alfa Romeo Le Vetture di Produzione/Production Cars 1910 - 2007" written by d'Amico and Tabucchi and published in 2007 by Giunti/Giorgio Nada Editore (2nd edition). On page 648 they mention the chassisnumber for the 1750 GTV US version (type 105.51). They start with chassisnumber 1530002 produced in 1968 while 1530001 was produced in 1969. At Alfa Romeo, that was entirely possible.
The chassisnumbers mentioned in Fusi's book'"Tutte le Vetture dal 1910/All cars from 1910", published by Emmeti Grafica in 1978, do not make sense. I agree with you.

Concerning the colour red on the 1750 GTAm, you could be right. The red looks beautifull and a bit dark. Rosso Zagato looks a lot like the red in the pictures, but I can't imagine that they used a Zagato colour on a 1750 GTV Alfa Romeo at Autodelta.

Ciao, Olaf

 

[vroom]

car models - model cars - 1/43 - M4 - ALFA ROMEO - GTAM N 22 MONZA 1972 DE ADAMICH


Same car?

Silver GTam raced by De Adamich Monza 1972

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Hello Vroom,

Thanks for the pictures!
It could be the same car. In 1989 these GTAm cars weren't very popular yet, so making a replica wasn't the only choice you had. Restoring a real one was another opportunity if you could find one. Let's keep this car in mind and see if other information will emerge, that will shed more light on the Bagnoli car. I tried to find other pictures of the Bagnoli car but didn't succeed yet.

Ciao! Olaf

 

[F1 Tommy]

The Monza pictures are AR1533142 as it was a late build GTAM and was I think the only silver works 2000 GTAM. Thanks for the photos. One of the works 1970 Monza GTAM's was I think also silver for some reason. (# car 96).

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

 

[vroom]

The Monza pictures are AR1533142 as it was a late build GTAM and was I think the only silver works 2000 GTAM. Thanks for the photos. One of the works 1970 Monza GTAM's was I think also silver for some reason. (# car 96).

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

There is another shot of what appears to be this car i think incorrectly attributed to this race (Jolly club 4 hours at Monza - though clearly still Monza ) at page 144 of Tabucchi..

Different sticker placement etc.

This time Hezemans is driving.

Also this video:

appears to show a second Silver GTAM... Car #30 @ 3.01...

Lots of fun to be had with GTAm numbers!!


Best regards, John

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

There is another shot of what appears to be this car i think incorrectly attributed to this race (Jolly club 4 hours at Monza - though clearly still Monza ) at page 144 of Tabucchi..

Different sticker placement etc.

This time Hezemans is driving.

Also this video: 4 Ore di Monza 1971, part 3 - YouTube

appears to show a second Silver GTAM... Car #30 @ 3.01...

Lots of fun to be had with GTAm numbers!!

Best regards, John

Hello John,

Lots of fun indeed!! Thank you for the video and the link!
You are right, there was a second silver GTAm with startnr. #30 in this 1971 Monza race.
I saw it to on the video too. So there was a startnr. #22 in the 1972 Monza race and a startnr. #30 at the 1971 Monza gathering.

As Frank said, this could be #1533142. I will dig further into this and will try and find out how many silver GTAm´s there were and which ones took part in this race.

Ciao, Olaf

 

[F1 Tommy]

Another shot from Zandvoort in 1970 of car #25. It does look like AR501 in this shot. Could be the same car as the Spa 1970 #25 because of the front marker light location and GTA alloy doors.

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Hello Tom,

This might help!

Ciao, Olaf

 

[vsharp]

Fantastic thread and detective work guys!
Given that there were only a few red GTAms in '70, do you know the chassis# of any at particular races? Maybe I can determine more about #1531068, by eliminating the red ones that it is known not to be.
Vince.

 

[F1 Tommy]

The number #24 Zandvoort 1970 car had plate number #L18548 MI wich should be chassis AR #1530776 built in October 1969. I am not sure if AR #1531068 was a works car. It could have been a customer car modified by Autodelta but without more information its hard to tell.

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

 

[Alleggerita]

Remember that AR501 came in 5 or 6 different shadings. Old photos don't help either ...

Another shot from Zandvoort in 1970 of car #25. It does look like AR501 in this shot.
Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

 

[gta776126]

Remember that AR501 came in 5 or 6 different shadings. Old photos don't help either ...

...German paint shops have some more Ulrich. Do you remember??


..i am going to Padua next weekend. If you need some stuff let me know

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

The number #24 Zandvoort 1970 car had plate number #L18548 MI wich should be chassis AR #1530776 built in October 1969. I am not sure if AR #1531068 was a works car. It could have been a customer car modified by Autodelta but without more information its hard to tell.

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 2012

Hello Tom,

Yep, my sources (in this case Tabucchi) confirm what you say; License number #L18548 MI should be chassis AR #1530776 built on the 29th of October 1969.
On AR #1531068: Vince Sharp is the man to talk to concerning this chassisnumber.

Ciao! Olaf

 

[vsharp]

Hello Tom,

Yep, my sources (in this case Tabucchi) confirm what you say; License number #L18548 MI should be chassis AR #1530776 built on the 29th of October 1969.
On AR #1531068: Vince Sharp is the man to talk to concerning this chassisnumber.

Ciao! Olaf

Thanks Tom and Olaf, that is one red '70 GTAm accounted for.
As I said earlier, I am trying to find details about #1531068 by working backwards and eliminating other known RED 1970 GTAms from the equation.
#1531068 was ordered and supplied thru Autodelta, but when recieved was used and worn and was in the underground storage area for the Museum cars.
That is all I know about it so far.
Any more RED '70 chassis numbers known?
Thanks guys, regards,
Vince.

 

[AlfaRonny]

Vince,
did Foley sell *1531068* to Stephenson?
Ronny

 

[vsharp]

Vince,
did Foley sell *1531068* to Stephenson?
Ronny

Ronny,
No, Foley sold #1531068 to Franco Cecchele in early '73 with tipo33 engine fitted. I bought it from Cecchele a few years ago (less engine). However, Stephenson and Cecchele were involved together in racing Alfas, so yes there is a connection. Also in 1980 I bought a GTAm engine in parts from Stephenson, said to be from the car. This is what is is going back in.
#1531068 was originally red with black inside, so I wish to count off all the other known red 1970 ones. Foley bought it from the factory in December '70 and it was already worn out.
Vince.