I would say go Milano Verde it has the LSD and tall gears so you will get much better MPG
now if this is only a track car then you might want the hard to get LSD with the low gears.
but I think with the tall Verde box it is stronger as the pinion is larger and that seems to be the part the goes first.
I do not think the old box will be problem other then lack of LSD. but if you use the car every day like I do the gas saved will pay for the tall tranny in a year or so.
and if you had the gears lightend I think you can use the same gears in the new box.
In fact I think you could use the whole gear set if only 1000 miles on it and use the case and diff off the new box.

 

Is the GTV6 transmission strong enough and good enough for about 240hp

Short answer ... yes. Anecdotal evidence from multiple websites I have come across over the years suggest that you'll break the donuts on the driveshaft first, before you twist anything in the 'box.

That said, slyalfa is right in saying the Verde gearbox is more desirable. It has LSD and taller gearing which will help put the power on the ground.

 

That said, slyalfa is right in saying the Verde gearbox is more desirable. It has LSD and taller gearing which will help put the power on the ground.

I think the 3.55 gearing plus the 24V would suck. The 24 valve likes to rev and has less torque below 3500 rpm than 3.0 12V. The 4.10 I have works perfect with 24 inch diameter wheels. I pull 3600 rpm at 80 mph. The 3.55 is just too tall with the 24 valve. Unless you want to build a freeway flyer, stick with 4.10 with LSD.

 

more info

Thanks so far. the car will be strictly street. What do you mean exactly the the Verde box is the more desireable one. Elaborate Thanks.

 

Thanks so far. the car will be strictly street.

This is why I think the 3.54 (Verde) 'box is better for him. I have a 4.10 in my 75 but as you know I track it a lot. However, as I'm turning it back to a street car, I'm putting back the 3.54 'box to mate its new 164Q engine (3.0 24v). The torque deficiency you speak of is not that much below 3,200 rpm, but the 'meat' of the curve beyond that rpm is much bigger that I personally think it'll be just fine.

Street cars have a tendency to be driven at one rpm a long time, and as much as I love the sound of the V6, it does get old when you have to keep it at one rpm on long stretches of highway (think of all those times we NorCal guys drive down to Willow Springs). I'd rather it be a lower rpm if I had to do that, which is why I like my wife's Verde better for road trips than my own 75, even though mine has the better suspension!

 

Clarify

Are you telling me that I could take a Verde core and use most of my GTV6 transmission parts to rebuild the Verde core with the LSD.

 

yea as far as I know the that will work. I think the only difference is the case and the diff. the ring and pinion. The part for the speedo is eletronic on the Verde.
and I think it is not on the gtv but I think I have read that the part can be moved over from the old tranny but the reading will be off with the different diff ratio.
but most spedo shops can make a small box that will fix that.

 

Yeah, I understand your point Nizam. Unfortunatley there is no 6th gear for a Milano. My M3 box is pulling about the same rpm's in 5th as a 4.10 but I can slip into 6th and pull down 500 rpms. If were looking for a good ratio for comfort, I would use 3.73 or 3.92 from a 75. Maybe you could regear a 4.10 and put in a taller 5th gear.

Since the Alfa engines date back to the year one, we get no stinkin VVT on intake and exhaust cams. Variable geometry on the plenum like the Porsche varioram would help too. All these goodies give modern engines much flatter torque and good horsepower at the top.

I still think the 24V is alot softer below 3500 than a bone stock Verde motor. Maybe not quite a dramatic compared to a cammed 12V motor. It's like the difference between VW A2 GTIs. The 8V engines had a lot more midrange torque but the 16V engines breathed alot better at high rpms. I personally loved the 16V but you had to work at it to keep them on cam. You think 3600 rpm at 80 is buzzy, my 16V would pull over 4000 at 80mph. I still miss that **** 16V!

All the 164S, 75 Potenziato, and the SZ used shorter gearing to compensate for torque in the cammed motors.

 

thanks but here's a new question

Guys thanks for the input. Since the car will be a street car the Verde trans seems the way that I will go . The question now is do I have the Verde transmission lightened and the LSD increased maybe to 50% . I have had these changes by some people. Is it worth it? What will I gain. Is it worth the Monies. Thanks Sebastian

 

I would definately have the gears lightened if you're already in there, it will help with the rotating mass which is the best way to free up power at the wheels. The 50% LSD is going to lock up faster, if I understand right. So that will depend on the climate. In the snow/mud it will help alot, other than that I'm not sure how well it helps with pulling out of corners and pulling from a stop on the straight aways and what-not. Nobody likes a "one tire fire"

 

as far as I know mine is stock (unless the PO did somthing) and I have never had one tire spin. it is both or nothing. But a bit tighter I guess will not hurt as long as it is not so tight that it keep the car from turning with out skiding a tire.

 

Don't forget there is a speedometer issue and depending on exactly when your 85' was built there may be a shift linkage issue. A Verde transaxle into a GTV6 is not terribly complex, but it's far from a plug and play swap. There are quite a few GTV6s out there with Milano transaxles and no working speedometer.

Lightening the gears won't make any measurable amount of difference in rear wheel horsepower. What it will do is extend the syncro life. I do think it's worth it.

 

this may or may not be related: Just out of curiousity, is there any way to convert from the mechanical speed sender to a universal electric one, I'm thinking of putting an electric speedo in my car, and maybe swapping out the tranny, or atleast a few gears and LSD.

 

if you use a universal electric one it should be no problem(with the eletronic Milano sender) . if you use a Verde speedo it comes in 2 parts. the part in the dash and a box under the back seat if memory serves.
and get the whole shifer out of a Milano. there was a good writeup on this bb or on gtv.org
also check out http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=35826
it looks here they say the diff can be swaped into the old tranny. I thought the case was different to make room for the extra bits.

 

Speedometer To Work

Now i do not know if this would work but i found this website on another thread www.dakotadigital.com here is what they offer:

Universal Speedometer Signal Interface
From Dakota Digital





The SGI-5 Universal Signal Interface Unit can handle all of your electric speedometer signal conversion and calibration problems. The SGI-5 can recalibrate 8K pulse per mile (ppm) through 250K ppm electronic speedometer pulse rates. The SGI-5 is great for readjusting aftermarket and OEM electric speedometers on vehicles after changing rear end gears.

The SGI-5 can also handle all of your speedometer pulse rate incompatibility problems. Does your VDO Hall Effect Speedometer generator produces a 16K ppm and your cruise control requires a 2K, 4K or 8K ppm? No Problem!
Does your older GM 700R4 transmission produce 4K ppm and your new cruise control require a 8K ppm? No Problem!

The SGI-5 can also assist in creating tach signals for diesel engines when combined with a flywheel gear-tooth sensor or purchased as a kit the DSL-2 Universal Diesel Flywheel Tachometer Interface.

Would this make the GTV6 speedometer work using the Milano transmission.
Any help thanks Sebastian

 

More info

I just found out the I have an earlier 1985 GTV6 without the isostatic shifter.
What is an isostatic shifter first of all and how not having this isostatic shifter affect me? Can it be added?

 

With a little sledgehammer work it can be added.

 

Clarify

Greg can you clarify what gets hammered?

 

Not exactly as I have not done it. The body of the car needs to be reshaped near the linkage at the transaxle. I think there is an article on alfagtv6.com about it. I know Michael Harris has done it. He also solved the speedometer issue by using a Milano speedometer inside the gtv6 housing.

Personally, I prefer the gtv6 transaxle. It has tougher gears and better bearings. With an improved bushing at the front of the linkage it will be nearly as good as the later linkage in terms of precision. It's also A LOT easier to change a clutch or perform transmission work on the car with the early linkage.

Greg Gordon,
www.hiperformancestore.com

 

If you have a non-isostatic GTV6 and want a Milano transaxle, I would simply replace the shifter input shaft on the Milano transaxle with the one from the GTV6. That is the simplest and what we (with the help of Andrew G) did on Colin's GTV6 race car. This retains the GTV6 shift linkage.
Jes

 

Decision

After much thought and reading and listening to this BB and "experts" My last conversation was with Andy Garcia at AlfaGarciaRacing in Houston.
I will get a Transmission from a 1982-1983 GTV6 and add LSD and increase the LSD to 50% vs the stock 25%. The best transmission with the best ratios for my use would have been a Verde transmission which has
a 3:53 vs the Platinum or my existing which has a 4:10. To buya Verde transmission is much more expensive than GTV6 transmission. I could get a GTV6 transmission get it with new synchros, some gears lightened and a 50% LSD for about the same as a Verde transmission done the same way. The biggest difference the GTV6 transmission is a drop in. No problem mounting, speedometer, and all the regular problems associated the a Milano trans retrofit into a GTV6. I think it makes sense. Thanks to Andy. I can not wait to receive my new transmission from you guys.

 

Wow, you don't hear about too many people wanting a 82'-83' 3.42 box. I thought I was about the only one who liked those. The tall gears are not a big drawback for a powerful motor, with enough power it's really a good gear box. Watch my drag race video and you will see it's easy to spin the tires all the way through first anyway.

 

The right box

Greg you are right. Thats exactly what Andy said. The 82-83 box on a car with no power probably sucks. But when you got over 220 hp the shere power increase makes that box just right. Think about this you go to mothers house 45 minutes no no the track 1 hour away with the 4:0 at 65 mph you will be revving about 700 hp more than a 82-83 box or even a Verde box. The RPM at those revs will be great at first but after awhile welllll...And think about the cost factor. Nobody wants those GTV6 boxes you can pick them up cheap maybe $100-$200 but a Platinum well well over $500 if you find one and a Verde box the same. So the savings in the purchase of the transmissions pays for the LSD addition onto the GTV6 box and no headaches for the Milano retrofit. So Greg chears to you realizing thay the GTV6 box is better You are the pioneer and now all will follow.

 

Thanks! Andrew knows those transaxles as well as anyone. He will do a great job setting it up.

Another thing: If you do the math the overall drive ratio in first gear is about the same between a 3.42 GTV6 box vs a 4.10 Milano box (both are quite a bit taller than a 4.10 GTV6 box). So the drawback to the GTV6 boxes ratios becomes more of a spacing issue. With enough power, it's really not a big problem.

 

Transaxle Quandry

I can assure you that your GTV6/Milano transaxle is as capable of handling every bit of power as the Verde/Plat unit. I have built as many close ratio racing transaxles (RJR) in these cases as the V/P units. Your simple solution is to replace the ring gear carrier wth a LSD unit & insure the backlash & preload is OK. Pinion depth will not change. It`s simple.
Unless you are wanting to tear down your transaxle I would not get involved with gear lightening. The greatest burden on the syncros is the clutch driven disk. Get one that has an aluminum center & bonded friction material. In the pic above the one on the right is one with a rivited lining I built for a 2 liter. The bonded lining very light, releases smoothly & completely, & the BEST thing you can do for the syncros & shifting. You don`t need springs. You have plenty of rubber in the driveline! Contact me off line if you want more info.
The best internals would be 1st & 2nd from the Verde or plat on your Pinion shaft with 3rd/4th from a Alfetta. Takes a bit of machining but a wonderful close set of gears & speedometer unchanged.
Richard