[Del]

I don't remember, did you change the dreaded Bosch fuel pump double relay? One day our Milano would start, run, and then die, not getting gas. Changing the double relay cured that. I always carry a spare one of those in the glove compartment, as IMO they are not reliable.

My feeling is that if the engine starts, runs, and then quickly dies, it's not an ignition module problem. Had a module act up in our 94LS, and the affected plug would not fire at all.

 

[pangolin]

My Milano is as you described above. The starting is weak (not starter is weak, but igniting A/F). I attribute this to age, most likely, I have low compression, I estimate that I have about 100 hp out of 154. I can barely outdrag Corrollas, that aren't even trying. Anyway, as soon as I hear it fire, I'm on the gas, like as if carbed (carbs generally have accel squirters), I rock the pedal up and down (this probably does nothing in FI car). The important thing is the old (weak) engine needs more compression pressure, so opening throttle works. I have plenum pop once, this is a compromise that I accept, to make this work.

 

[Del]

"I can barely outdrag Corrollas, that aren't even trying"

Well, that's nothing new. It is a Milano, not the fastest car around, esp in the newer low cost Asian imports. They are generally fairly fast these days. Lol, been there, tried that.

If the engine fires, and you don't touch the throttle, will it idle at all, or die within seconds? I don't think you want to play with the throttle as you try to start the engine, as if it backfires, you could damage the AFM. Maybe you are lucky in that case because of the apparent lack of fuel. I think that more fuel there is, the more forceful the backfire could be.

Have you changed the double relay? If the double relay is not working, we found that the engine would start, maybe run on fumes for several seconds, or not, or sometimes longer, then die as the fumes run out. Changing the relay cured the problem.

 

[Del]

Returning to the previous discussions concerning the ignition modules for GTV6 and Milano, has anyone actually tried the Beru ZM001. I've bought Beru ignition parts before from Latvia(?), and the parts are well made, and quick delivery, BTW.

So, interested to know it it works on the Milano. Might try to buy one.

 

[pangolin]

When firing is weak it will always die. If I don't get it started the first time, it will always take quite a bit of cranking to get it started again. My solution is to give it throttle, it has worked, and plenum pop is rare, and has occurred. I called it a compromise I have made. I have been through the double relay rabbit hole.

Back to topic.
I am using a module, that is marketed for a Volvo. Haven't found what I put in it, I have documented on this forum, I think.

 

[pangolin]

Found it: I am using Huco 13-8013 (Volvo 3501921). Coincidentally (or not) my tach doesn't read properly since this was installed. I have installed an aftermarket tach. The weak start up may be related, but this module has been in place for a couple of years already.

I'd like to add, that this Volvo part cross referenced to a Bosch part 0 227 100 124, and I tried to obtain it. However retailer wanted a VIN, so I wasn't willing to go a Pick N Pull to get a VIN for a Volvo, so I purchased Huco from different retailer.

 

[ivanaa]

I don't remember, did you change the dreaded Bosch fuel pump double relay? One day our Milano would start, run, and then die, not getting gas. Changing the double relay cured that. I always carry a spare one of those in the glove compartment, as IMO they are not reliable.

My feeling is that if the engine starts, runs, and then quickly dies, it's not an ignition module problem. Had a module act up in our 94LS, and the affected plug would not fire at all.

I have a new Regitar Ign. Module in hand now and a very expensive NOS Relay set (original and identical part number to what is currently on the car) on its way from Italy now. Will try them out in the next few days... If the relay set works, will open the old and see if it can be repaired per some other forum posts.

 

[Del]

It is posted on the BB that one can make a duplicate of the double relay by using a pair of ordinary relays and a little wiring. Haven't tried it yet myself, but thinking about it if I have nothing better to do some day.

 

[ivanaa]

It is posted on the BB that one can make a duplicate of the double relay by using a pair of ordinary relays and a little wiring. Haven't tried it yet myself, but thinking about it if I have nothing better to do some day.

You may find this interesting if you haven't already stumbled upon it. Same idea, slightly difference relay set for a VW bus. TheSamba.com :: Bay Window Bus - View topic - How to make your own FI double relay

If my new relay fixes the problem I will happily open and/or donate my bad one for that effort. Still pushing on Bosch to send me the electrical diagrams. So far no response...

 

[ivanaa]

Well -

The mechanic (not an Alfa guy) gave up on it. And I took the car back. Spent a few hours today trying more stuff. Mostly cleanup and testing. No dice. My replacement Ign. Module went in and the car has better spark and maybe a stronger start, but dies once the key is released from Start to On.

I recleaned more stuff, grounds various electrical connectors, tried reseating everything I could under the hood. Nothing loose, doesn't appear to be any leaks, but even wrapped the accordion portion of the air intake to account for even minor hidden cracks. No dice.

I tested the double relay, inconclusively. 88d seems to be OK. 86b is either bad, or perhaps just not easily tested as its a small opening in the connector for two wires and my cheapo probe is too thick to fit as well. Ran a small electrical wire up into it as an extension, but maybe I didn't make good contact.

Fuel pump is new, fuel filter and lines connecting them are new. Gas is new. Battery is charged (though it too was new when the problem first occurred so that leads to this question - anyone know the original battery spec for the car, I replaced with what was there in terms of size but the non-crank amps are a bit lower - could it be???) Air leaks, seemingly none, ground clean and intact, ign module new, ign wires checked and reseated. Ign. coil same. Almost all electrical connectors cleaned. Fuses triple checked. Everything electrical on the car works.

The car cranks nicely, starts and will run if you hold in starter position, but sputters and dies after the key is released to On position. Still waiting on the NOS relay set to arrive. Hoping its simply that.

Have a couple of alfa specialists near me I am waiting for, but would rather get in running BEFORE I take it in.

Any other ideas?

 

[pangolin]

How are your fuel injectors?
In general, it's very difficult to discern fuel and ignition. It could be that only the cold start injector is actually spraying fuel, so check your fuel injectors.

I assume mechanic has made sure 12v appears where needed.

 

[Gepetto]

FWIW, my car had trouble with the ignition module too. It happened rather suddenly at higher RPM while cruising on the highway (a harrowing event if you live in the NYC/LI area, like I do). Eventually was able to replicate it on command for mechanic. Good used module (Bosch 0-227-100-111) works. Got a brand replacement -123 module, same thing - car cranks but won't run. Regitar module claims to replace a whole bunch of different part numbers, but as some of said here, I reckon there's something specific about the Alfa 2.5 (mine is a 1985).

 

[ivanaa]

FWIW, my car had trouble with the ignition module too. It happened rather suddenly at higher RPM while cruising on the highway (a harrowing event if you live in the NYC/LI area, like I do). Eventually was able to replicate it on command for mechanic. Good used module (Bosch 0-227-100-111) works. Got a brand replacement -123 module, same thing - car cranks but won't run. Regitar module claims to replace a whole bunch of different part numbers, but as some of said here, I reckon there's something specific about the Alfa 2.5 (mine is a 1985).

Is the car running now or still start stop? Mine turned out to be a single set of #4 injector wires that had pulled back from the connector after the plenum pop and were touching each other in the connector boot. The car started and ran fine after that was sorted. Posted in a different thread. Has the Regitar ign module and everything else stock. Only diff is some wiring of the one row v two row connector of the original module. Maybe that needs to be adjusted for your new non bosch module?

 

[Gepetto]

Well right now I'm running on a good used Bosch module and the car runs fine, and I just purchased an NOS module (# 0 227 100 111). I reckon once that arrives, the car will work just as well and I'll have the peace of mind of having a new module in there so it should last a long time. All the wires are properly connected and in good condition. The old module just crapped out and made highway driving virtually impossible (or any kind of pushing the car past about 3800 rpm).

 

[tomhenneka]

I replaced my OE Bosch ignition amplifier module with this aftermarket Chinese module from an eBay seller. It works and has not blown up yet.

 

[DSpieg]

Returning to the previous discussions concerning the ignition modules for GTV6 and Milano, has anyone actually tried the Beru ZM001. I've bought Beru ignition parts before from Latvia(?), and the parts are well made, and quick delivery, BTW.

So, interested to know it it works on the Milano. Might try to buy one.

Yes, I've been running a Beru ZM001 in my '87 Gold, it works fine.

 

[6alfas]

Classic Alfa is selling the Beru unit for GTV6's and Milano's. D0325 IGNITION MODULE GTV6 & 75 V6 - Classic Alfa

 

[alfasudz]

Yes, I've been running a Beru ZM001 in my '87 Gold, it works fine.

Interesting, because in the Beru catalogue they show the ZM001 matching the Bosch 0227 100 102
https://www.beruparts.eu/content/dam/marketing/emea/beru/catalogue/ignition-parts.pdf

They also show the BERU ZM001 as being the correct module for most Alfasud models which implies this module is compatible with a reluctor pickup.

The other ignition module Beru shows for the Alfasud, is the BERU ZM005 which matches the well known Marelli BKL1A. This is the same as the D1906 module from GM HEI used in late 1970s Chevrolet, Buick and other GM cars, sold as a Lucas module on Jaguar and other British cars and as Marelli on Fiat, Lancia and Ferrari.

 

[DSpieg]

Well, the ZM001 has been working fine in my Milano for nearly 4000 miles now, so I'll assume it's OK

 

[alfasudz]

Well, the ZM001 has been working fine in my Milano for nearly 4000 miles now, so I'll assume it's OK

That's the main thing.

The whole thing is a bit confusing.
From the BERU catalogue - page 15, 224, 276 and others.

ZM001 - equivalent to Bosch 0 227 100 102 (and others): induktiv
- correct module for some Alfasud and Alfetta models from October 1981 onwards and the modern Bosch equivalent for the same cars appears to be 0 227 100 123
ZM002 - equivalent to Bosch 0 227 100 103 (and others): Hall
ZM005 - equivalent to Marelli BKL1A and Delco D1906: induktiv
- correct module for 1982 Alfasud 1.5 Quadrifoglio and others
ZM015 - equivalent to Bosch 0 227 100 124 (and others): Endstufe
ZM026 - equivalent to Bosch 0 227 100 200 (and others): Endstufe
- correct module for several Alfa Romeo models from about 1990 onwards.

Endstufe = final stage. This appears to mean that the module provides the final output transistor stage(s) that drive the coil(s) and no other functions. This is for cars with an ECU where the ECU provides the dwell control and other functions required.