Ray, screw the brakes.. Brakes are the last thing you do to a car before you put gas in it and turn the key .. unless you wish to do them over again in 12 months. Go spend your time on the research..really. Sounds harsh but it's the way to go. Double Uncle.. Find another project that doesn't involve the introduction of fluids that have a life span.. like the exhaust.

I was bleeding brakes on my SZ before the St.Louis convention in the last century at 3 AM with a 7 AM departure on it's maiden drive,.

 

Ray I'm with Uncle D&T here, you can rebuild the mechanical side of the brakes, but leave the fluid out until the last minute

The MGA Guru website is filled with all the technical answers you could possibly want and many of the parts are actually the same as our Giulietta's, especially the Lucas electrics. Here's the brake page - MG Brakes Tech - Sure it's MGA, but the basic principles are the same.

The Triumph TR2 & 3 used the same rear cylinders as the Giulietta's and Moss Motors has some details and diagrams on their website.

Ciao
Greig

 

Greig,

Really just looking for information and not intending to introduce any fluid at this point. I still need to purchase the MC and try to locate one of the short, fat BF reservoirs that the disc brake cars use.

I thought I'd assemble the hardware while the diff is on the workbench and wanted to have all the various parts in place before I started.

 

Ray, the manuals cover the refitting very well. Better than I can. The tricky parts of the procedures and checks are assumed the operator knows:

1. install the adjustment unit fully back off the two pistons which should be greased lightly with axel grease or brake grease ..the groove in them is to hold grease

2 install the brake cylinder with a a dab of grease so it can slide against the backing plate.. The three plates only go in the order of 1, 3, 2.... The center plate is driven in LAST. there is no other way .. . which is counter intuitive to 1,2,3....They will squish the rubber boot which is sort of like a prophelactic with a pin-hole in it at a drive- in movie. It keeps out most of the trouble makers but it only takes one drop of water to defeat it. Follow the diagrams for positioning orientation. If you have powder coated the backing plate it can spell trouble.. I ABHOR POWDER COATING. the built-up paint will not allow the cylinder to move .. which it must when moving from REV-FWD-REV-FWD..etc The three plates attaching the cylinder allow this action to occur and thick globs of powder coat restricts it causing heart burn when the brakes lock up on your maiden voyage.

3 Assemble the Springs and two shoes together in your hands properly oriented,, then apply them to their position knowing you have to overcome the tension on one of the springs with a large lever to fit the shoe into the slotted piston of the cylinder.. With an audible grunt the shoes will find home squarely inside the cylinder piston and aligned on the adjustment pistons.

4. Eyeball the two shoes to symmetric position.

5. Fit the drum... coaxing the shoes out of the way if they interfere. Once the drum is in place .. remove it.. Then test for parallelism between the shoe surface and the drum with a hand made square mimicking the one in the shop diagrams. If you are starting from scratch ..they will have to be aligned or if new shoes..if so then the adjustment is part of the game..If you had kept track of the shoes ..probably not necssary or only mini turns on the adjuster. kunt hairs off is ok. This is not the space shuttle.

6. Adjust the contact with the drum turning the square driive 90 degrees at a time. until the drum locks then back off equal amounts to just have contact.
Report back. Uncle cubed.. heading for the bar.

 

2 install the brake cylinder with a a dab of grease so it can slide against the backing plate.. The three plates only go in the order of 1, 3, 2.... The center plate is driven in LAST. there is no other way .. . which is counter intuitive to 1,2,3....

Just doing this now on my 60 spider. Yes, 1, 3, 2 (i.e. inner, outer, middle) is the correct order to install the sliding plates. However, I'm finding that 1 and 3 are very hard to get in due to interference with the hand brake lever. I made it work, but it took a lot of force. Just wondering if I'm doing something wrong?

John

 

750 rear brake assembly

Uncle:

Thank you for such a lucid explanation of the assembly process. I is a great help.
JR (Lycosa)

 

This is GOOD. I've lived with these 2 shoe rears for 53+ years. they are just great. Uncles discussion is point on.

 

I use the hand brake to push the shoes tightly against the drums, then tighten the guide screws until they just touch the shoe.
Make sure the front and rear edges of the linings have the proper bevel, or you will have self locking brakes.

 

Chas H
"Proper bevel" ??

 

Yup, if the end of the brake lining is not beveled the brake shoe can jamb. The proper bevel is called out in the service manual.

 

Only the front linings are beveled . The rear ones are not. Beveling the rears has nothing to do with avoiding self- locking brakes. Please refer to my previous post on powder coating (or slathering paint for that matter) the backing plates.

 

I just had to bevel the linings on the rear to cure a locking problem. It had nothing to do with powder coat or paint.

 

I guess I must have a different manual than yours. FWIW the photo you posted are front shoes (perhaps 3 shoe?)on a Giulietta. I suppose you might have to do the rears if you have Giulietta front brakes on the rears like some Giulia systems..but that would be speculation on my part and there could be tech bulletins I'm not privy to. If you think it works more power to you.

 

Front brakes on a Giulietta have 2 or 3 leading shoes. The rear brakes have one leading shoe. It only takes one shoe to jamb the brakes.
Just passing on my knowledge and experience.

 

Can you elaborate on this,my Spider Normale rear shoes have no bevels?

 

so noted many times

 

Brake & Equipment Warehouse in Minneapolis just replaced my front and rear linings and they did put bevels on all edges without being asked.
It's part of their normal relining process.

Highly recommended for all brake work including SS sleeve of M/C and wheel cylinders:

Brake & Equipment Warehouse
455 Harrison St NE
Minneapolis, MN 55413
(612) 378-3141

Ulf

 

I'm done.. put a fork in me.

 

Good night, Chet...

 

No fork Uncle. Some of this depends on the type of lining. There is a BB discussion on this re/ woven linings of OEM type have greater stopping power with less pedal effort than modern solid linings.
My own rear linings on my GIULIA spider ex race-car, are solid, not woven, bonded and riveted race (hard) linings. These have been on the car since NEW in 1965. Initially they had the slightest leading edge bevel, now worn away. This car was raced with 2 shoe front drums (Giulietta) because those were physically lighter than the factory discs, and did not have the spongy pedal often associated with the discs. These also STOPPED the car easily with little pedal effort for many many race years, linings identical to those in the rear.
This car does have a Tilton bias valve just behind the passenger seat. It has been re-converted to original discs with some anti-spongy pedal modifications for street use where the bias valve was needed to adjust hard pads, hard linings for street use where they don't stay hot.
I strongly believe a leading edge bevel is needed with woven linings, particularly if not bonded and riveted.
As a teenager, (was that just last week? I'm now 73.) driving my 1931 Model A Ford at about 50 mph (It would go faster) I mashed on the mechanical (not-hydraulic) brakes and had a LR riveted but not bonded woven lining un-rivet on the leading edge, and wrap up under the drum, locking the LR wheel. A very lively few seconds followed. I learned WHY Uncle is correct, AND I did not know him then!
Use a bevel.
Just my opinion from my own experiences in deceleration.

 

Gordon,

Your comments triggered something in my memory about a discussion dealing with a/the spongy brake pedal feel on disc brake-equipped Giulia Spiders.

How prevalent is it and what is there to be done about it?

Thanks,

Ray

 

It was irritating to me in racing, so I made it disappear. I like a rock hard pedal that is always in the same place with the same deceleration. On the street, ALL cars have some sponge to pedal feel. My suggestion is to restore/ reassemble as factory, and if you don't like it, there are solutions still using factory discs, and maintaining a stock appearance and build for the most part. Modifications come with some compromises.

 

Girling front discs call for a 3/4" Master cylinder. All others were 1". Never had a problem with sponginess in street form..

 

Glad to hear it

Thanks, Uncle!

 

Thank you!
D&T, your post discussing the backing plates became part of my notes with respect to assembling the brakes.
Jim

 

Thanks Chas H
One picture is worth a thousand words.
Jim

 

There should be little effort unless you have already connected the hard line.. Table 77 p. 242 shows the orientation .. the order goes Rubber 32 then 31 .. then 30 then 29.. a drift with gentle tapping gets the last one home.

 

Also,put the emergency brake lever in "after" the two plates(3 and 1) are installed,that way the lever is not in your way and you won't bend any plates.The brake cylinder will still be loose enough to allow you to squeeze the E-brake pins into place.Now the middle plate can be put in.AFA the rubber boot,I've managed to put it in last,but only because I forgot about it. A few more pictures being added