On an '85 Graduate, a similar problem was because of a bad small aluminum colored relay under the back seat. Very difficult to find as sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Mostly it didn't work when warm.

Mike

 

With a good battery and normal cranking speed, you should be able to see a good spark at the plug if you remove it and ground it against the head with the plug wire attached. If no spark, you need to troubleshoot. Are you getting 12V at the + side of the coil? Continuity from the - side of the coil to the points? Points and condesor good? Coil, cap, rotor, etc.

Ignition problems on points distributors in my experience generally are not so intermittent; they usually work or don't. Especially if it runs some, then doesn't restart, I'd think the problem might be elsewhere. But as they say, 75% of fuel system problems are actually ignition problems. Also, the ignition circuit is pretty easy to verify objectively that it's working, compared to the Spica system.

Once you verify spark is OK, then it's time to troubleshoot Spica, starting with the basics; pump working, fuel lines and filters clear, pump timed properly, actuator functioning, cold start solenoid working, rack spring not broken, etc.

Andrew

 

Starting a Spica injected Alfa that has sat derelict for 17 years is not smart. Hopefully your injection pump was "pickled" before put into storage, but I doubt that was the case. There is a strong possiblity that the injection pump is damaged and/or the thermostatic actuator is bad as well.

It's a good thing that you know enough to ensure that there is sufficient fuel pressure.

I think it futile to try and diagnose the problem until you go through the entire fuel and electrical system and clean and reset them.

"mrutkas'" comments do not apply. His car is a L-jet injected Alfa and bears no similarity to a 71 Spica injected car in terms of ignition or fuel system.

I also disagree with Andrew's opinion of points ignition systems. They can and do exhibit strange symptoms now and then. My own car, when sitting for say a month, has problems with the points getting corroded and causing a miss. A couple of swipes with a file and it's back to normal. Also, it's very possible that the spade connection under the distributor base where the wire from the coil attaches, is corroded or loose, causing wierd intermittent conditions.

With regards to the starter problem . . . that could easily be a mechanical problem with the key switch itself, or just as easy a problem with a corroded or burned starter solenoid. A test light should help isolate that problem.

A car that has sat derelict for 17 years is going to have all kinds of problems. If it were me, I would not even attempt to start it until I had done the following as a MINIMUM:

1. Cleaned the entire fuel system, tank to injectors, and replaced both fuel filters.
2. Cleaned and reset the entire ignition system.
3. Cleaned and reset at least all the important electrical connections.
4. Changed the oil and filter.
5. Cranked the engine through without spark plugs to reprime the oilways and bearings.
6. Inspected the timing chain tension

 

Here's how I look a your report. You say when the car is warm it won't retstart and at the same time you don't see a spark out of the timing light. I think your method of testing for spark is flawed. To test for spark, remove sparkplug, reattach sparkplug lead, wear rubber soles and heavy leather gloves, hold the sparkplug against the cam cover(unpainted) and have your assistant crank, you should see a spark. That's how you test for spark. I can't disagree with roadtrips methodology, but would suggest, that if it starts cold, you have two seperate problems. The not cranking could be any of the following, including a combination thereof: bad ignition switch, bad grounds/loose connection(s), bad starter, weak battery. The not starting when it cranks warm could be the FI, try disconecting the cold start solenoid. Alfa's with SPICA are often known to not restart when warm, that's why many, isolate the cold start with a switch, interestingly I've seen SPICA cars, where cold or hot, it will start, but warm it won't unless you disconnect the cold start solenoid.

 

rogerspeed is correct,

I bought a new '71 spider, and it did the exact same thing. The bandaid at the time (Roadtrip, cover your ears) was to put the dreaded cut off switch in the cold start solenoid circuit. This was even recommended by Joe Benson, the SPICA guru of the era. Thinking back, the problem was probably a combination of mis-adjusted cold start solenoid and fuel mixture; the car started when it was cold, and fully hot, but things combined to flood the engine when it was merely warm.

In our era, SPICA experts state that this switch is absolutely not necessary if everything in the system is operating correctly.

... interestingly I've seen SPICA cars, where cold or hot, it will start, but warm it won't unless you disconnect the cold start solenoid.

 

I have:
1. Cleaned the entire fuel system, tank to injectors, and replaced both fuel filters.( relined tank, all new hoses and filters, dismanteled everything but SPICA and changed oil and filter in SPICA)
2. Cleaned and reset the entire ignition system. (NEw plugs, points, cond, cap and rotor
3. Cleaned and reset at least all the important electrical connections. done
4. Changed the oil and filter. done
5. Cranked the engine through without spark plugs to reprime the oilways and bearings. Cranked by hand with oild and Marvel mystery oil
6. Inspected the timing chain tension. Not done. I will get to that once staretd and running regularly


I will retest for spark. I am certain there is fuel-- pulled plugs after no start and fuel was in cylinders

 

I will test the Cold start solenoid. Thanks

 

Ok. Great. Now we can start some meaningful troubleshooting.

1. Statically time the engine with a test light. That'll get it REAL close to perfect, and certainly close enough to run easily and well. Double check that the spark plug leads are not fouled-up and the firing order is indeed correct.

2. Clean the spade terminal connection under the distributor.

3. Check continuity of the ignition switch (12v at coil while cranking).

4. Check for spark again.

Cursory check of the injection pump:

1. Check that the pump gap is close to .019" with the engine at ops temp and the long rod connected.

2. Check that the Cold Start Solenoid is adjusted so that there's about a 1/4" gap between the base of the CSS can and the logic section casting. Try disconnecting the CSS lead and tape it over.

3. Test the CSS by running a test lead from the Pos batt term and touching the CSS spade terminal on top. You should hear an audible "click" when energized and deenergized. It's possible that the plastic hydraulic piston in there is gummed up and sticking. Get the Roadside Diagnostics Guide from www.wesingram.com/hp.htm

5. Starting technique . . . cold, press slightly (maybe about 1/2 - 1") on the accelerator. Hot - don't press initially, but only if the engine doesn't fire after several revolutions on the starter.

Still recommend that you do a compression test. If you have a bad valve, it's going to run poorly and the check will save you from chasing ghosts.

 

Also a good quickie check on a Spica pump is to remove the altitude compensator (the triangular element on the top of the rear section), pull out the whole unit with the bellows, and examine the vertical spring right in front of it on the inside. If the spring is broken (usually near the top where it threads onto a screw) the pump will have major difficulty running. If the spring is attached and unbroken, that's a good sign. Put the compensator back on and proceed to other diagnostic items.

Andrew