[Greg Gordon]

Here is the way I see it. I have been dealing with special interest cars my whole life, and while I am not a collector and I don't own any cars as rare as a TZ, I am familiar with this scam.

Lets say someone who we will call Mr.X owns a TZ, or perhaps he doesn't own one, but instead will be selling one and getting a commission from the sale in the near future. Mr.X has a financial incentive to drive up the short term value of the car he is about to put on the market.

In order to do this he calls into question the authenticity and history of a few of the other cars that are out there. Since there may only be two or three TZs for sale at a given time in the entire world, if he can raise doubts about just one of them, that will make the car he has a stake in more valuable. He does this hiding behind keyboard anonymity so he do this over and over and nobody can prove it's the same guy. Anonymity also prevents Mr.X from ever being proved wrong in public, so his credibility doesn't drop.

Greg Gordon,
HI Performance Store, Inc

 

[Nicola]

I do! For the life of me, however, I can't find a chassis number anywhere on it. And there are some other details that distinguish it from the pictures of the other TZs I've seen. I'm beginning to suspect that it might not be an authentic TZ, after all, which would be heartbreaking, to say the least (that's what I get for finding it in Lithuania). There's a picture of it here.

Good luck with your mission, 2002, whatever it is.

-Jason
WA, USA

Jason -
I recommend you keep your baby inside with this weather we are having. I'd hate to see what the current Seattle street conditions would do to that famous Zagato bodywork.

 

[JPF]

There are many details on this car that indicate this may vey well be the first TZ ever built. Of course, this car cannot have a TZ chassis number because this famous prototype was conceived long before Alfa even thought of making the TZ and/or choosing a name for it.

Brilliant!!! Er, I mean, oh yes, that's just what I was thinking. Must be true, because here it is on the web! Thanks for confirming my suspicions, Ruedi (p.s. check's in the mail).

-Jason
WA, USA

 

[Zaagmans]

This must be the famous "Bastardo" protoype that an Austrian gearhead developed and showed to Alpha Ramero engineers in or about 1958-59. There are details on this car that can only be appreciated if you inspect this car in person. There are many details on this car that indicate this may vey well be the first TZ ever built. Of course, this car cannot have a TZ chassis number because this famous prototype was conceived long before Alfa even thought of making the TZ and/or choosing a name for it.

You guys know NOTHING about TZ's!

Same goes for the Marcello Minerbi book!

Soon to arise from the ashes, after complete technical refurbishment which will make the mechanics look like brand new, TZ # 750021 which according to Minerbi was never built but which in reality was used by runaway Autodelta employees as the basis for the hyper secret TZ-3 on which I will soon publish a book! This book, for which the factory will congratulate me, will prove that I am absolutely right as it will be written in the book that I am!

I found this car on Sicily in 2002 where it has been in storage for almost 41 years, was destoyed by fires not less that 7 times and crashed 31 times!

Here is a picture of it:

As soon as the technical refurbishment is ready and the serial number clearly visible on a chassis tube, the car will be made available to discrening buyers through a good friend of mine in a country that I will not name but which is squeezed in between The Netherlands and France... My dear friend will of course supply FIA papers with the car which will prove that the car is authentic!

The car that the fool "tubut" is referring to, the famoso Batardo, will soon arise from the ashes as I found it in 2002 in a barn in Portugal where it had been in storage for almost 40 years. It is chassis number 750072 of which Minerbi claims it was "Possibly not built" but I know better! As soon as the technical refurbishment is ready, it will be offered for sale by my good friend with FIA documents which will prove it is 100% authentic!

Furthermore, I hereby reserve ALL chassisnumbers of which Minerbi says that they were destroyed, not used or have an unknown history are existing cars and that I found them all locked away in a barn in the Ukraine! They will soon all arise from the ashes after almost 40 years of storage and made available for sale by my good friend complete with FIA documents as soon as the technical refurbishment is complete!

YOU KNOW NOTHING!

Sorry... couldn't resist the opportunity...

On a serious note... would anybody here know which TZ was owned by a Lt. Ron Worthington around 1972 / 1973?

Thanks!

 

[africk]

TZs

I'll take one of each. Could I have Lemans history on one of them? Oh, and matching numbers would be nice.

 

[Zaagmans]

I'll take one of each. Could I have Lemans history on one of them? Oh, and matching numbers would be nice.

I can give you a quantity discount if you take more than 1 of each of the unique prototypes!

Do you have a preference regarding Le Mans history? Specific years? Starting numbers?

 

[alfamox]

See that's a nice christmas tale.............

Didn't Ron buy a SZ (2600SZ--037) in 1973 and not a TZ - Or did he own both.

Lars

 

[Zaagmans]

See that's a nice christmas tale.............

Didn't Ron buy a SZ (2600SZ--037) in 1973 and not a TZ - Or did he own both.

Lars

I found an old ad in which he offers a "GTZ" for sale... no chassis number... ca. 1972 / 1973... so I presume he owned it? Could have been brokering it though.

 

[sprint750]

You guys know NOTHING about TZ's!

Same goes for the Marcello Minerbi book!

Soon to arise from the ashes, after complete technical refurbishment which will make the mechanics look like brand new, TZ # 750021 which according to Minerbi was never built but which in reality was used by runaway Autodelta employees as the basis for the hyper secret TZ-3 on which I will soon publish a book! This book, for which the factory will congratulate me, will prove that I am absolutely right as it will be written in the book that I am!

I found this car on Sicily in 2002 where it has been in storage for almost 41 years, was destoyed by fires not less that 7 times and crashed 31 times!

Here is a picture of it:

As soon as the technical refurbishment is ready and the serial number clearly visible on a chassis tube, the car will be made available to discrening buyers through a good friend of mine in a country that I will not name but which is squeezed in between The Netherlands and France... My dear friend will of course supply FIA papers with the car which will prove that the car is authentic!

The car that the fool "tubut" is referring to, the famoso Batardo, will soon arise from the ashes as I found it in 2002 in a barn in Portugal where it had been in storage for almost 40 years. It is chassis number 750072 of which Minerbi claims it was "Possibly not built" but I know better! As soon as the technical refurbishment is ready, it will be offered for sale by my good friend with FIA documents which will prove it is 100% authentic!

Furthermore, I hereby reserve ALL chassisnumbers of which Minerbi says that they were destroyed, not used or have an unknown history are existing cars and that I found them all locked away in a barn in the Ukraine! They will soon all arise from the ashes after almost 40 years of storage and made available for sale by my good friend complete with FIA documents as soon as the technical refurbishment is complete!

YOU KNOW NOTHING!

Sorry... couldn't resist the opportunity...

On a serious note... would anybody here know which TZ was owned by a Lt. Ron Worthington around 1972 / 1973?

Thanks!

Your story is completely bull**** !!!

You CAN'T definitely claim TZ # 750021 as I'm currently building the AUTHENTIC replica of 750021. Every papers that you can imagine will be available for this car including MOT, TüV, aund Euro 4 Emission certificate (+ 1 year warranty) and a certificate of Mr GIORDANENGO himself . Of course FIA papers come along with the car as the racing history can't be told here because of the limited storage capacity of the BB server. In the era, engine was prepared by faketti and maintained by Colombani & barriano, in Brescia (If you prefer that they are located in Milano, Udinese, bari, or whatever place in Italy, no problem...who cares ?)

It will be eligible to Grand Prix of Belgium, Spa-Francorchamp 24H, Ieper 24H rally , Rallye du Condroz, Boucles de Spa..... Curiously , even if found in Argentina and restored in Poland with parts located in Ukraine, it will be delivered in Brussels...as one can imagine.

Now a pic of 75021 under construcxxxxx ehmmmm ground up RESTORATION in the best Fakxxx ehmmm 'Well known Alfa specialist' to prove I'm RIGHT

I DON'T WRITE THE BOOK. I KNOW THAT I'M RIGHT. WHO OWNS A REAL TZ HERE ?? (Not me !!!)

Regards
Sébastien

 

[Zaagmans]

Your story is completely bull**** !!!

You CAN'T definitely claim TZ # 750021 as I'm currently building the AUTHENTIC replica of 750021. Every papers that you can imagine will be available for this car including MOT, TüV, aund Euro 4 Emission certificate (+ 1 year warranty) and a certificate of Mr GIORDANENGO himself . Of course FIA papers come along with the car as the racing history can't be told here because of the limited storage capacity of the BB server. In the era, engine was prepared by faketti and maintained by Colombani & barriano, in Brescia (If you prefer that they are located in Milano, Udinese, bari, or whatever place in Italy, no problem...who cares ?)

It will be eligible to Grand Prix of Belgium, Spa-Francorchamp 24H, Ieper 24H rally , Rallye du Condroz, Boucles de Spa..... Curiously , even if found in Argentina and restored in Poland with parts located in Ukraine, it will be delivered in Brussels...as one can imagine.

View attachment 125730

Now a pic of 75021 under construcxxxxx ehmmmm ground up RESTORATION in the best Fakxxx ehmmm 'Well known Alfa specialist' to prove I'm RIGHT

I DON'T WRITE THE BOOK. I KNOW THAT I'M RIGHT. WHO OWNS A REAL TZ HERE ?? (Not me !!!)

Regards
Sébastien

WHAT A COMPLETE NONSENSE!

Every child knows that # 750021 passed the ENCAP crash test in 2007 with good results and without any damage! How come that you are now "restoring" it again?

The # 750021 to be sold by my friend any time soon to a KNOWLEDGEABLE collector comes complete with the ENCAP certificate which proves it is absolutely authentic!

And now...

 

[dretceterini]

Your story is completely bull**** !!!

You CAN'T definitely claim TZ # 750021 as I'm currently building the AUTHENTIC replica of 750021. Every papers that you can imagine will be available for this car including MOT, TüV, aund Euro 4 Emission certificate (+ 1 year warranty) and a certificate of Mr GIORDANENGO himself . Of course FIA papers come along with the car as the racing history can't be told here because of the limited storage capacity of the BB server. In the era, engine was prepared by faketti and maintained by Colombani & barriano, in Brescia (If you prefer that they are located in Milano, Udinese, bari, or whatever place in Italy, no problem...who cares ?)

It will be eligible to Grand Prix of Belgium, Spa-Francorchamp 24H, Ieper 24H rally , Rallye du Condroz, Boucles de Spa..... Curiously , even if found in Argentina and restored in Poland with parts located in Ukraine, it will be delivered in Brussels...as one can imagine.

View attachment 125730

Now a pic of 75021 under construcxxxxx ehmmmm ground up RESTORATION in the best Fakxxx ehmmm 'Well known Alfa specialist' to prove I'm RIGHT

I DON'T WRITE THE BOOK. I KNOW THAT I'M RIGHT. WHO OWNS A REAL TZ HERE ?? (Not me !!!)

Regards
Sébastien

You are all wrong. The car was built by Crapattini!!!

Wasn't 00057 ("A" or "B" ?) the car that Fantasy Junction was in a lawsuit over?

 

[sprint750]

WHAT A COMPLETE NONSENSE!

Every child knows that # 750021 passed the ENCAP crash test in 2007 with good results and without any damage! How come that you are now "restoring" it again?

The # 750021 to be sold by my friend any time soon to a KNOWLEDGEABLE collector comes complete with the ENCAP certificate which proves it is absolutely authentic!

And now...

Do you have any 'period' pictures proving what you are assessing ?

Any pics of the crash test dummies sitting (with a large smile of course) at the wheel of this 'authentic' 7500021 before impact ???

ME I KNOW. I Wrote THE book. Who owns a real TZ down here ?

My real 750021 is a replica of a authentic fake which makes a GREAT difference. Chassis # used for the Euro NCAP was 750007 which proved with NO DOUBT that this car was once owned by James BOND himself.

Everything is in THE book!

Regards
Sébastien

(by the way, picture I used on the previous post was from '750087' as far as I remember)

 

[alfaromeo2002]

Your story is completely bull**** !!!

You CAN'T definitely claim TZ # 750021 as I'm currently building the AUTHENTIC replica of 750021. Every papers that you can imagine will be available for this car including MOT, TüV, aund Euro 4 Emission certificate (+ 1 year warranty) and a certificate of Mr GIORDANENGO himself . Of course FIA papers come along with the car as the racing history can't be told here because of the limited storage capacity of the BB server. In the era, engine was prepared by faketti and maintained by Colombani & barriano, in Brescia (If you prefer that they are located in Milano, Udinese, bari, or whatever place in Italy, no problem...who cares ?)

It will be eligible to Grand Prix of Belgium, Spa-Francorchamp 24H, Ieper 24H rally , Rallye du Condroz, Boucles de Spa..... Curiously , even if found in Argentina and restored in Poland with parts located in Ukraine, it will be delivered in Brussels...as one can imagine.

View attachment 125730

Now a pic of 75021 under construcxxxxx ehmmmm ground up RESTORATION in the best Fakxxx ehmmm 'Well known Alfa specialist' to prove I'm RIGHT

I DON'T WRITE THE BOOK. I KNOW THAT I'M RIGHT. WHO OWNS A REAL TZ HERE ?? (Not me !!!)

Regards
Sébastien

THE PLACE = RUELOFF IN HOLLAND
THE CAR = FAKE 087 WITH SOME PARTS OF THE REAL 006 WHO ARE NEXT TO THE CAR
2008 = THE FAKE 087 BECAME FAKE 007 WITH AN HOLLAND DEALER ..EVERYBODY KNOWN THIS..EVERYBODY WHO KNOWN TZ

 

[Zaagmans]

THE PLACE = RUELOFF IN HOLLAND
THE CAR = FAKE 087 WITH SOME PARTS OF THE REAL 006 WHO ARE NEXT TO THE CAR
2008 = THE FAKE 087 BECAME FAKE 007 WITH AN HOLLAND DEALER ..EVERYBODY KNOWN THIS..EVERYBODY WHO KNOWN TZ

Did you take the picture?

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Everybody

THE PLACE = RUELOFF IN HOLLAND
THE CAR = FAKE 087 WITH SOME PARTS OF THE REAL 006 WHO ARE NEXT TO THE CAR
2008 = THE FAKE 087 BECAME FAKE 007 WITH AN HOLLAND DEALER ..EVERYBODY KNOWN THIS..EVERYBODY WHO KNOWN TZ

Hello alfaromeo2002,

I wonder who Rueloff is. Did you by any chance mean Piet Roelofs?

And you are? Or does 'everybody' already know....?

Ciao, Olaf

 

[alfaromeo2002]

Yes Piet Roelofs, the deutch Ferrari specialist

 

[guineahen]

I found an old ad in which he offers a "GTZ" for sale... no chassis number... ca. 1972 / 1973... so I presume he owned it? Could have been brokering it though.

Ron Worthington here and yes I owned both a TZ 1 and a 2600 SZ while living in Schiedam, Holland in the late 60 and early 70s. TZ was 040 and GTA powered. SZ serial number I'll need to look up. Both cars came with a good story at the time which I can pass along if anyone is interested.. Both cars are in the states now. We are still addicted to Alfas with both a 101 series Alfa Spider, Sprint and a Morgan.
Regards, Ron Worthington

 

[alfaromeo2002]

Show us photos if you have some

 

[Bill S]

TZ was 040 and GTA powered. SZ serial number I'll need to look up. Both cars came with a good story at the time which I can pass along if anyone is interested..

Stories? Heck yeah, we love stories! Nice to have you aboard in this thread, Ron. Just so you know, any thread about TZ authenticity tends to become strange and heated and isn't really representative of most other postings on the alfabb. Having said that, sure... toss your stories into the mix! I'd sure like to hear them...and pictures if you got 'em.

Former Hampton River Rat,

 

[tubut]

Ron Worthington here and yes I owned both a TZ 1 and a 2600 SZ while living in Schiedam, Holland in the late 60 and early 70s. TZ was 040 and GTA powered. SZ serial number I'll need to look up. Both cars came with a good story at the time which I can pass along if anyone is interested.. Both cars are in the states now. We are still addicted to Alfas with both a 101 series Alfa Spider, Sprint and a Morgan.
Regards, Ron Worthington

Hi Ron,
Welcome to AlfaBB. My records show that the chassis number of your 2600 SZ was 856037 and from a 2005 e-mail I gather you bought the car from Joe Richards who drove it first in Zweibrücken and then Amsterdam in the 1971-73 time frame.
Best regards,