[Alfisto Steve]

Good eye Bob. I was being sloppy since I had timing belt change planned anyway. I also had blade upside down in saw.

 

[elite38868]

No should not be noisy or cause vibration if installed correctly, bolts should be tight. Now if you used solid firm poly bushing on big end that can cause vibration from motor being transmitted to body.

Did you adjust upper link so bolts go in freely when engine at rest just sitting on lower mounts?

The 93L I just got running yesterday got lower mounts replaced with stock units and had poly upper rear with holes drilled in it to make it softer and I installed yellow poly on small end and the had to adjust link to get upper bolts to fit easily and no vibration.

Steve, I actually removed the top mount altogether and it made no difference, so the noise is beyond me, but sounds horrible. All washers were accounted for that dropped, so I'm certain that I didn't drop anything into the intake. Aside from excess oil consumption, the spark plugs weren't damaged and neither were the valves, so I'm at a loss. There's enough oil and I pulled the rear valve cover again just to make sure I didn't leave anything in there. Timing is spot on.

Here's what we replaced:

>Lower rear engine mount
>Upper small & large engine mount bushings (dog bone)
>Both A-Arms with bushings and ball joints
>Sway bar bushings
>Speedo sender
>Rear valve cover gasket and spark plug well gaskets
>Rear suspension arm
>Bolts for intake runners, but all old are accounted for

Probably more that I can't think of. Next thing I'm going to do is pull the PS wheel off and see if I dropped anything into accessory belt/T belt area, but I don't think so...I just want my baby back!

 

[Alfisto Steve]

When do you get noise just with engine running or when driving? What about vibration, too.

 

[elite38868]

When do you get noise just with engine running or when driving? What about vibration, too.

I get it when I start the engine up. I haven't let it run too long because I don't know what's causing the noise. There doesn't seem to be any vibration.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

I don't know what to tell you. Are you sure you didn't drop something into timing belt area around rear engine top mount? Why did you remove intake runner(s) was engine mount bolt in backwards?

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Did you account for (find) steel bushing that was on bolt to remains of old small end top mount?

 

[elite38868]

I don't know what to tell you. Are you sure you didn't drop something into timing belt area around rear engine top mount? Why did you remove intake runner(s) was engine mount bolt in backwards?

I'm going to check on that today and hope that's it. I removed intake runners to make it easier to remove rear valve cover to replace the gasket and spark plug well seals and get an electric jigsaw to remove the engine mounted bushing.

Did you account for (find) steel bushing that was on bolt to remains of old small end top mount?

Yes, I threw that away as soon as it popped out.

 

[elite38868]

Okay, so I pulled off the PS wheel and wheel liners and found no loose or missing parts in the timing belt/accessory belt area. Nothing at all.

What I did next was compression tested all six cylinders and got 180 across the board which I was suprised because the car uses oil and spark plugs had crud on them. Anyway, when plugs were removed, I stuck a magnet down the spark plug holes and felt around and nothing moved or came back up with it.

So, no missing or loose parts, compression was fine provided I did it the right way, which meant there was no damage to valves, and there were no objects obstructing the belts...I just don't understand. Maybe the engine is bumping the frame? Or maybe when I put a piece of wood under the oil pan, it still bent causing friction with the crankshaft?

I made a short video clip of what it sounds like when I start it up. The sound is a lot louder than what you can hear.

<embed width="430" height="389" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://smg.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v298/elite38868/MOV01863.flv"></embed>

Try the one below if the first one doesn't work:

 

[Alfisto Steve]

All I hear is valve noise like maybe exhaust rocker arm clearance is too great. If you have a grinding noise I can't pick it up in that audio.

 

[ChazzyD]

Have you done a valve adjustment, my old engine sounded like that before I did one and that quieted it down a lot. I would sit in a drive thru and the engine would idle with a distinctive sound like a tractor, exactly like yours sounds. (actually when you raised the hood, it sounded like yours). The newer engine (lower mileage) in my car now, I also adjusted the valves on, and it doesn't make really, any valve train noise to speak of. I would go in and check valve clearances. Intake and exhaust, just for peace of mind. All my intake valves have always been fine, the exhaust valves are the ones that get hot and need the clearances to be tightened up to spec. Take you time doing it and I believe your noisey engine will be fine. You can reuse the valve cover gasket you just put on, it will be fine.
Charles

 

[gr8sho]

The last time I heard that sound was on a 2.3L 1975 Mustang. As I'm driving to Binghampton, the car lost power and managed to limp home. When I pulled the valve cover off, I saw a rocker arm just laying there. This particular four banger has hydraulic lifters, and the lobes on the camshaft had worn down to the point where there wasn't enough left to hold the part in place. But man did that think bang loud. The solution was to replace the camshaft and rocker arms. Changed it in 15 degree weather.

 

[elite38868]

Here are the valve clearance results:

Cylinder -- Intake ------- Exhaust ------------- Shims Needed (for intake)
1 ------- .017" ---------- .008" ----------------------- .051mm
2 ------- .015" ---------- <s>.003"</s> .008" ----------------- .101mm
3 ------- .013" ---------- <s>.007"</s> .008" ----------------- .152mm
4 ------- .014" ---------- .008" ----------------------- .127mm
5 ------- .014" ---------- <s>.005"</s> .008" ----------------- .127mm
6 ------- .014" ---------- <s>.007"</s> .008" ----------------- .127mm

 

[andrewg]

You need to adjust your valves. The exhaust are easy, its the intake valves the require removing the cams and replacing the shims. Not a bad job, but much easier on a GTV6/Milano.

 

[elite38868]

You need to adjust your valves. The exhaust are easy, its the intake valves the require removing the cams and replacing the shims. Not a bad job, but much easier on a GTV6/Milano.

Yes, I agree! The exhaust valves literally took seconds to loosen, adjust to proper spec and tighten. Besides obviously taking the T belt off, what is involved in adjusting the intake valves? How do I know what (shims?) to buy? Would is be a good idea to replace valve stem seals while I'm in there or is it no possible to change them with the heads on the car?

 

[andrewg]

You do not have to touch the timing belt. The cams will come out by separating the cam pulleys. You need to take out the cams, measure the existing shims under the cams followers. You use a bigger or smaller shim depending on what the final clearance you are trying to get. The complete procedure is outlined in the shop manual. I have a full set of shims so replacement shim selection is not a problem. The valve stem seals a replaceable with the heads on, but not really an easy job. I would not bother with them until you decide to rebuild the heads or engine.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Alfa V6 12v engines 1981 to 1993.

I doubt you will find intakes out of tolerance enough to worry about, so cams will not have to come out to just adjust the exhaust rocker arms.

I try to keep exhaust rocker arm clearances set to about .009" (.0088 to .0098") to keep the chatter talk down.

Intakes are .0187 - .0197" so I will even let .017 to .020" fly until I actually have a need to pull a cam. Usually they are not the noise makers until they get in mid twenties and will not start to burn with low clearance until there is nearly none.

 

[elite38868]

Steve, did you see the chart I made? http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showpost.php?p=308455&postcount=32

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Are those what the noisy engine had/has? If so not a reason for noisy valves as they were/are all pretty tight.

 

[elite38868]

Are those what the noisy engine had/has? If so not a reason for noisy valves as they were/are all pretty tight.

Yeah, that was the engine. I'm thinking maybe the lower engine mount might have something to do with it. It also runs a little better when I tighten the dog-bone mount, but I'm not sure if this is too tight or too loose:

 

[itapol]

small engine bushing

DID you ever get teh race out. I am having real trouble. I have the old type bushing and am thinking of cutting the race and installing the rubber. I am concerned about rubber expansion...I was thinking of making sometype of rubber to install in that hole...