[yvesmontreal]

Here is another thread you need: Montreal Steering Box Removal

My preferred way to hunt Alfabb for a given topic is use Google as a search tool. In this case, I entered "Alfabb Montreal Burman" and it did the trick.

 

[fitfan]

Here is another thread you need: Montreal Steering Box Removal

My preferred way to hunt Alfabb for a given topic is use Google as a search tool. In this case, I entered "Alfabb Montreal Burman" and it did the trick.

Thanks!! Oh good advice. Forum search engines are useless, smart idea.

 

[John Ireland]

I love the color and the car looks stunning. All the mechanicals will be sorted. My own approach is to look at all the work from the past as if it didn't happen and just start from scratch on the car. Do everything to your own satisfaction and you won't be disappointed. The engine and trans are the gold. Because it is riding on basically a GTV chassis, look at Alfaholics components when you start changing parts in the suspension and brakes...they could upgrade performance significantly. It will probably be best to sort the problems by groups and get one done before starting on another...such as fix the trans and get that out of the way, send the Spica pump to Wes Ingram and get that finished and put it aside, clean up all the little engine bay issues, and lastly tackle the engine. Just my opinion on how I would approach it. The reason I put the engine last is because you won't really be able to judge it if all the other stuff is compromising how the car drives. And that gives you time to look inside the engine and measure things and make a list of things it should be getting...oil pump, water pump, ignition sytem, etc. Anyway you're already smiling and know what you are doing, so have fun.

 

[fitfan]

agree and similar to my approach. have to first just get it running and drivable... unsure what the exact issue is of the overly rich running. I sucked mostly fuel out of the spica logic section and will change the engine oil that has minor amount of fuel smell in it, and test drive and see if the spica is no longer rich (and the cause of all that) or, either way if the spica is still bypassing fuel... in that case... ingram isn't replying to inquiries, but site say is $6k just for the pump rebuild and not including injectors, or other parts... so... that does not sound rational or viable to me. i'm sure there are others that can assist if test this weekend reveal more terminal spica problems. anyways - seems odd to me to be both rich and bypassing fuel (internally through pumps), so hoping that with TA and CSS verified and working that all goes well this weekend. believe i have solved the water leak, but again, will find out. once running more or less right, its sending the steering box out be rebuilt so it can turn correctly. spent past 2 days putting spica all back and cleaning up wiring and starter terminal connections to eliminate the potential for shorts occuring.

fwiw/future reference: spica takes about 10 oz of oil. and the "accel" cable that no one had feedback on connects to the firewall throttle linkage assembly at the brake booster. (i have left mine disconnected still)

previous owner is disavowing any knowledge of any of the issues and deferring "shipping company must have damaged everything". some people just suck.

 

[rharre13]

Hi Rod- I got one too! I live pretty close to Mark- he has really helped me a lot with mine. I talked to Karl on the phone today- very helpful.

Mine is also beautiful but doesn't run quite right. I kept being told by the seller that I just need to drive it, so thats the first thing I did! Drove for hours a couple times. Mine runs very rich for sure. I have black smoke on acceleration and unburned fuel comes out the tailpipe while it's warming up. The dial on the engine was in the middle and Mark and I changed it to 15 C. Mine is missing the markings. So much work was done to mine- the seller told me not to move that dial and all I need to do it drive it, but it runs very rich no matter what so far so I dont know... I haven't taken the air cleaner off and gotten into the SPICA on mine.

I'm doing Karl's steps in backwards order because he's Australian. My car came with 225 tires and the steering was clunking and doing all kinds of weird things. When the tire shop put on 195's they told me the steering linkage has a dangerous amount of play, so I ordered the 6 German end links and Karl's steel reinforcement kit too. Hopefully that does it for wheels and tires. My Montreal is low and hard-riding with yellow springs and I scrape the exhaust on any speed bump.

I have a computer connected to my ignition coils with an SD card in it.

My paint is new but its bubbling on the hood and the wheels.

The circuit for the front left and rear right lights that also works the eyebrows blows the fuse while driving.

Mark helped me do an oil change but I put the wrong oil in there - 5W-40 synthetic. I bought 15W-40 conventional Liqui-Moly diesel oil from my truck shop I'm gonna put in there instead at some point. I'm storing it in the kitty litter container- not super confident about putting that in my engine now that I think about it. My oil sump drain plug is a square pumbing fitting sealed by thread tape.

I just lost my key to the car- working with the dealership to order original new keys.

 

[robo330]

Both of you need to Google “ Alfa Romeo Montreal - Driven Hard “
That’s what a well tuned Montreal should sound like…
Take a look and get back to me.

 

[rharre13]

Id say mine sounds like it but it pops and sputters when the RPMs go back down. Also sounded more like that when i first got it but after changing the oil it was a lot quieter and smoother.

 

[DPeterson3]

agree and similar to my approach. have to first just get it running and drivable... unsure what the exact issue is of the overly rich running. I sucked mostly fuel out of the spica logic section and will change the engine oil that has minor amount of fuel smell in it, and test drive and see if the spica is no longer rich (and the cause of all that) or, either way if the spica is still bypassing fuel... in that case... ingram isn't replying to inquiries, but site say is $6k just for the pump rebuild and not including injectors, or other parts... so... that does not sound rational or viable to me. i'm sure there are others that can assist if test this weekend reveal more terminal spica problems. anyways - seems odd to me to be both rich and bypassing fuel (internally through pumps), so hoping that with TA and CSS verified and working that all goes well this weekend. believe i have solved the water leak, but again, will find out. once running more or less right, its sending the steering box out be rebuilt so it can turn correctly. spent past 2 days putting spica all back and cleaning up wiring and starter terminal connections to eliminate the potential for shorts occuring.

fwiw/future reference: spica takes about 10 oz of oil. and the "accel" cable that no one had feedback on connects to the firewall throttle linkage assembly at the brake booster. (i have left mine disconnected still)

previous owner is disavowing any knowledge of any of the issues and deferring "shipping company must have damaged everything". some people just suck.

Fitfan…

I must offer sobering news.

First, I’ve not followed your tale to have a well considered list of quick and cheap solutions. But, perhaps a few hard-learned wisdoms.

Wes Ingram is a gentleman and a professional. “Not rational or viable” should never be pointed in his direction. I have never had problems getting in touch, usually via telephone.

I was the parts manager at an Alfa dealer in the early 70s. At that time, a new Spica injection pump cost more than a new engine without the pump attached. I have learned over the years that the repair cost of an item relates to its original purchase price, not its size.

If it turns out that your Spica is worn out, I predict you’ll not find a better solution than Wes. He rebuilt two Montreal pumps for me about a decade ago. They cost a little more than $3k, including injectors and TA. That something has doubled in ten years strikes me as both rational and viable.

Using the “Original Price” rationale, the Montreal will always be much higher to maintain than lesser Alfas, but less than a Ferrari.

My strategy when restoring a car was “seek an as-new result on whatever needs restoration”. This prevented me from having to waste time revisiting things I’d already “fixed”. Time is the single most expensive thing I possess.

That doesn’t me a good quality resto needs every part replaced by NOS OEM. It means that IF something needs repair, don’t take half measures.

 

[rharre13]

Both of you need to Google “ Alfa Romeo Montreal - Driven Hard “
That’s what a well tuned Montreal should sound like…
Take a look and get back to me.

I should add also that I get black smoke when I put my foot down.

 

[IRONBLOCK]

Ross, We should probably check the condition of your cars air filters. When the blue Montreal originally came to me, it had a pair of New Old Stock (NOS) air filters that looked as though they were petrified. I later saw an eBay vendor offering the exact same looking 'vintage' filters.

While we are in there, it would not take much more time/effort to remove the thermostatic actuator (TA). IF (notice all caps?) the TA checks out good in a pan of hot water with a thermometer and something to measure the length of the plunger extension, then I would call Steve Macaroni (Karl can vouch for him!). Steve taught Alfa dealership mechanics how to set up and adjust the Spica units and he has the required tools. He also helped Karl figure out his Spica issues.

Mark

 

[rharre13]

I am blown away by how helpful everyone is. I would like to pull my TA and do that test with you Mark for sure. Karl wisely told me to do that first before he gives me the name of the SPICA expert who helped him over the phone but happens to be local to the Atlanta area!

I di want to get my own hands dirty before calling on Steve Maccarone.

 

[fitfan]

Don,
I meant that in the sense of if that is what fixing up a spica pump cost… I’m pretty sure I could EFI it for less, and have a more reliable and higher performance and efficiency system afterwards. Not any sort of attack in the Ingram business at all. Anyways. Still unsure where the issues lie. If you have Wes’s number I’ll take it! By next week I will have figured out what’s it’s doing and not doing and 15 mins conversation will probably answer it all. Can’t find his number, any number on their website and email doesn’t seem to be effective either. Working on testing, evaluating a few things. I very much appreciate you sharing your wisdom! Knowledge and experience are invaluable tools in life.

@rharre13
I pulled my ta out and tested it. Very simple to do. Just a bit tedious with tight spaces and tiny bolts. The upside is that the engine is a glorious thing when you get the air cleaner all the way off! I discovered suspect wiring at the starter and re did some of that.
I also changed the oil in the spica logic section. Again easy but also delicate and tedious / fussy bolts.
…..it was so much fun I’m doing it again tomorrow morning! Lol
wjere Are you located? Please Introduce me to Mark and Karl? (Screen names?)

 

[fitfan]

@robo330 are you saying you can rebuild my SPICA to deliver same running condition?

 

[rharre13]

Don,
I meant that in the sense of if that is what fixing up a spica pump cost… I’m pretty sure I could EFI it for less, and have a more reliable and higher performance and efficiency system afterwards. Not any sort of attack in the Ingram business at all. Anyways. Still unsure where the issues lie. If you have Wes’s number I’ll take it! By next week I will have figured out what’s it’s doing and not doing and 15 mins conversation will probably answer it all. Can’t find his number, any number on their website and email doesn’t seem to be effective either. Working on testing, evaluating a few things. I very much appreciate you sharing your wisdom! Knowledge and experience are invaluable tools in life.

@rharre13
I pulled my ta out and tested it. Very simple to do. Just a bit tedious with tight spaces and tiny bolts. The upside is that the engine is a glorious thing when you get the air cleaner all the way off! I discovered suspect wiring at the starter and re did some of that.
I also changed the oil in the spica logic section. Again easy but also delicate and tedious / fussy bolts.
…..it was so much fun I’m doing it again tomorrow morning! Lol
wjere Are you located? Please Introduce me to Mark and Karl? (Screen names?)

I'm excited to pull the air cleaner and test that TA just as soon as I get new keys made- just lost my key this week.

Mark is IRONBLOCK and he's outside the Atlanta area with me. Karl is robo330 and is in Michigan where my wife is from- they have the same phone area code!

 

[rharre13]

Ross, We should probably check the condition of your cars air filters. When the blue Montreal originally came to me, it had a pair of New Old Stock (NOS) air filters that looked as though they were petrified. I later saw an eBay vendor offering the exact same looking 'vintage' filters.

While we are in there, it would not take much more time/effort to remove the thermostatic actuator (TA). IF (notice all caps?) the TA checks out good in a pan of hot water with a thermometer and something to measure the length of the plunger extension, then I would call Steve Macaroni (Karl can vouch for him!). Steve taught Alfa dealership mechanics how to set up and adjust the Spica units and he has the required tools. He also helped Karl figure out his Spica issues.

Mark

yes and yes, Mark. I'm curious what my air filters look like. I considered buying filters on eBay...

excited to get in there under the air filter housing with your guidance and go from there.

 

[robo330]

I was saying that it is highly unlikely that you need to pull the Spica Pump off at this point. There’s a lot to check before that. Did you check the TA to see if the piston deploys about 7.0 to 8.0 mm in boiling water?

 

[DPeterson3]

Fitfan,

We’ve witnessed an interesting life-arc in many Alfa models.
As new, lovely and slightly more expensive than other mass produced sporting car.
Shortly after new, values drop to spit.
Then, many receive poor, budget minded repairs just to keep them going.
Then, they’re scrapped for being too expensive and being beyond economic repair, as there’s no rewarding market for the result.

Years later, we look around and realize what treasures they are, and the selling prices creep up.
The ones that were respectfully maintained and not bastardized draw the majority of the buyers.
Eventually, certain models are recognized as treasures, and actively sought, and restored.

In the US we have a long tradition of “hot ridding”. It’s very challenging to find a 60s or 70s Mustang or Camaro in as-originally-delivered condition.

Alfas are not the same. Future buyers will not reward “improvements”. I’m guilty of making my own enhancements during restorations, but I’m certain that these negatively impacted their resale value.

The Montreal engine is a rare jewel. When you consider the devaluation of any future sale, the price of ANY modification will more than outpace the cost of top notch repairs using original components.

I was immeasurably satisfied when I rebuilt my Monty engine and was able to tune it as it was intended. Easy starting, excellent idle, fabulous power. The only negative is the fuel consumption in slow, around-town cruising.

 

[robo330]

I must say that we regularly got something in the order of between 14.0 mpg and 17.5 mpg around town. Out on the highway, the fuel consumption improved dramatically. We have done a number of long distance events, Michigan to Montreal, Canada and back (twice), and 3 other Michigan Mille events. They were all in the order of 1,000 miles over a period of 3 to 4 days. Averaging 75 to 80 mph we have seen 21.0 to 23.5 mpg. It's also dependent on how the car is driven. I don't believe any of us own or drive our Montreal's for the gas mileage! What I am trying to get at is that the car is very drivable and rewarding out on the highway. And everything is as it was built, meaning standard. I completely agree with Don that leaving your car as standard will benefit you in the long run. "Hot Rodding" it will not.

 

[DPeterson3]

Those are the mileage numbers I used to see.

The cars I drove in the 60s and 70s did about the same, but with less exhilarating performance. In my family we had my 56 Ford Fairlane with T-Bird “Interceptor” 312 V8, my dad’s 67 Chrysler 300 with 440 Wedge, and my mom’s 66 Pontiac Bonneville “Land Yacht” with dilithium warp-core engine. None of these exceeded 20 MPG at any time, including coasting down a long hill.

A modern WRX will zoom loops around a Monty, but…. Who cares?

 

[robo330]

Absolutely!!!