I have a set on my 75 and there was a big difference. I think it is the slots. more then the drills. but it seems that it let things work quick and more constant. I have a set for the spider but I have not put them on yet.

 

Have them on the front of mine with semi-metallic pads and have no intention what so ever of going back to stock on the front.

Immeditate and noticable improvement in feel, grip and markedly shorter stopping distance when threashold braking.

Rear doesn't really bother me either way as the balance thingy prevents them from working in a serious fashion anyway.

 

Any competent machine shop will be able to cut some shallow grooves in a standard set of rotors if you cannot find what you need. These allow the super-hot gases to vent away from the contact patch and therefore aid heat dissipation as well as reducing the phenomenon of pad float. There also seems to be anecdotal evidence that cryogenic treatment considerably extends rotor life and stops cracking if these are drilled too. Mostly for cosmetic reasons, I also paint the 'hats' and the outer edge of the rotor with Eastwood High-Temp Stainless Steel paint, carefully flatting back the area which contacts the back of the wheel - has worked great for the past three years.

Alex.

 

Slotted rotors should be easy enough to find, and most people I think will agree that the non-vented rotors are perfectly adequate with the right pads.

My personal feeling on drilled rotors is that they're mainly cosmetic. The holes cut down on the mass and thus heat handling capability and are certainly prone to cracking. Definitely second the cryo suggestion if you really want drilled rotors, but I'd just go for slots.

Replace the fluid if it hasn't been done for awhile. My recomendation is ATE super-blue. Castrol SRF is pretty much the ultimate if you're willing to spend the $$$$. Or Valvoline SynPower if you want to just run down to the local autoparts store. Motorcycle shops (the ones that sell crotch-rockets) are often a good local source for good brake fluid.

Braided stainless lines make a nice cheap upgrade as well. The ones I got from Centerline are nice Italian ones (forget the brand).

I like the Ferodo DS2500 pads.

edit: oh, and if you're doing all that speed bleeders make bleeding really quick and easy......

 

Thank you everyone- This has been most helpful, and informative.

I have a couple of questions left:

1. Are braided stainless steel lines street legal?
2. Does anyone even look at the brake lines during an inspection?
3. What is, in estimation, the time inteval for changing out the rotor and pads? 2 hours per side enough?
4. I like the idea of using caliper or engine hi temp paint - don't know how visible that would be from the outside - any pictures from someone who has done this?


IAP has the Ferodo pads, as well as the drilled and slotted roters. I'd be happy enough with just the slots, though the price isn't bad - about 150 for a set of 2.

 

I always recommend normal rubber brake hoses instead of braided SS ones for the main reason that when the SS ones start to deteriorate, you won't be able to see it, or possibly even feel it until they fail completely. They are fine for racecars that get fully inspected all the time, but I feel like they have no place on a road car. The rubber lines will start to give a bit as they deteriorate and tell you when they need replacement. You can also visially inspect them for hairline cracks everytime you rotate your tires, or change brakepads - you can't tell anything about the condition of a SS line by just looking at it.

 

what is the time (estimation) to required to replace all of the brake lines? Is it fairly straightforward - replace existing line with new line, watch out for brake fluid on the paint?

Kenny;
I've heard that before too. What is the life expectancy of a rubber brake line vs. a braided stainless steel? I imagine that a track car probably has a scheduled maintenance/replacement of the lines every 3 years or so, depending on use. I'm looking at a 20 + year old car, thinking that I'll need to do something now that should take the car another 10 to 15 years.

Thank you-

Fib

 

Brake hoses should last 10+ years just fine as long as the car is driven... They usually rot faster in a car that sits for years. Just as an example... the hoses in your car now are probably the originals.

 

The stainless high-temp paint just prevents the hats from rusting owing to the heat produced during braking. I could only recommend the Eastwood paint mentioned above as I've no experience of using anything else in this instance. No photos so you'll just have to take my word for it - and flatting the mating surface to the bare minimum is important.

Alex.

 

Stainless lines are street legal as long as they are D.O.T. certified lines. Stainless lines should last longer than plain rubber ones. As far as the other point - lines are like shocks, they're wasted from a performance standpoint long before they actually fail. Keep good records, etc., etc.,. I've never had one fail, but then I've never had them on a car or bike for 10+ years. Not that that's not a good point - if you don't keep good records and don't pay attention, you could have problems (way) down the line.

Replacement of the lines is very quick - maybe 15 minutes per? And there are only three lines - the rear has a flexible line connecting the body to the axle and hard lines running out to each wheel from there. Nothing special to it. Probably want a set of flare-nut wrenches. I forget what sizes you need, but a metric set is like $25 or $30 at Sears.

 

Most of the SS lines out there now are teflon lined instead of or in conjunction with rubber, which while certainly more durable, is still subject to grit and whatnot that gets into the weave/braid of the lines.

The best thing you can do for them is wash them when you wash the car. (nothing real special, just a good rubdown with a soapy rag and a good flush with the hose. Mabe the occasional blast of carb cleaner to really flush them out)

ANY evidence of even the tiniest amount of braid fraying anywhere on the lines should be a screaming flashy light bells and whistles warning to swap them all out at the very earliest oppertunity. (on the flip side, at least you can see the fray when it happens as opposed to a straight up rubber line that might not show any cracks or rot unless they are under pressure or ancient)

Several performance shops around here carry them in pe-determined lengths with ends already on them (look for the shops that have thier own race cars to improve the odds of finding them) and have the AN fittings to adapt the lines to the car.

AFA the non-DOT race lines vs the DOT approved stuff the only difference is that yellow DOT sticker and the higher price that comes with it.

I'm more trusting of the ones designed for race purposes as they need to be strong and reliable to suit thier purpose, (in most cases they have heavier braiding and better fittings), especially when compared to some of the really scary ones out there, (I've seen bigger pipes on disc brake bicycles), that are DOT approved.

Most inspection stations I've been to won't even notice the difference, nor care if they do spot it, and if it does become a 'thing', then a bit of yellow shrink wrap looks just like the DOT certification after the letters have worn off. (*cough* not that I'd condone cheating the system or anything like that *cough*)

 

I think the grit is DOT thing. I think to be DOT SS they need to have a seal over them(clear plastic on the type I have seen)to keep out the grit.
the non DOT do not have the seal and grit can get into the fibers and cut away the inner line causing them to fail.

 

Never seen the clear tube/outer jacketed ones in DOT or otherwise, though I did spot a ricer with colored tubing on his but whether that was a slipover (nylabraid) or part of manufacturing I couldn't tell you.

Certainly a sealed in plastic braid would provide immensely more protection than just the open stuff, but I'm certain they can come DOT approved even without it. (at least the 'official' set I had my paddies on before getting the race version had nothing more than the yellow shrink wrap on one end declaring it's DOT approval # )

Does anyone know if Centerline or IAP have the clear stuff on them or not?

If so, how about the one you can get for the clutch too?

Might be worth knowing for the populace at large here to know if they are researching such things beforehand.

 

Yes, the lines I got from Centerline have the clear outer wrap - as do the Goodridge lines I had on my WRX and the Goodridge one I have on my motorcycle (never use the rear brake, so didn't spend money on the line..).

I dunno, I've always had good luck with them as have my friends. But again, I've never tried to put 20+ years on them.

 

The Teflon (SS) hoses from IAP also have a plastic cover over the SS braid.

 

I put SS brake lines on several years ago. They came without any covering on the SS braid, so I just got a length of 3/4 inch dia heat shrink tubing. Shrink after installing so that the tubing goes all the way over the fittings to keep moisture out of the assembly.

I've seen newer ones that come with outer coverings of various sorts.

The normal failure of rubber hoses is hardening of the outer cover. Smog and Ozone, which we get too much of, degrades rubber pretty bad, as does long exposure to stray oil. Keep this stuff off your hoses, seals, engine and TX mounts and they will last a long time.

Robert

 

I think the grit is DOT thing. I think to be DOT SS they need to have a seal over them(clear plastic on the type I have seen)to keep out the grit.
the non DOT do not have the seal and grit can get into the fibers and cut away the inner line causing them to fail.

First, brake lines cannot be "DOT Approved" which would imply they are inspected or certified, which the DOT does not do. They can be compliant with DOT standards, which means 2 things:

1) The hoses and fittings are DOT compliant parts

2) The manufacturer has been certified to manufacture hydraulic hoses for vehicles

The clear outer sheath is a nice feature but not needed for the hoses to be DOT compliant.

Joe

 

ok the grit thing is the story I herd. and it seemed logical.
I do have to say the only SS line I had go bad only went bad when I was welding and the current went thru the SS line, and a small fire then all the dot 3 on the floor that A arm seemed like it would be a good ground but it seemed that the only path was the SS line.

 

that's a horrible thing to have happen... I guess that's a lesson well passed on. Don't ground on rubber isolated items when welding.

Maybe I'm wrong on the SS braided hoses. I'm really just going on what I was told many years ago. Possibly before they came wrapped in plastic sleeves.

Who has had SS hoses the longest without needing them replaced? Who has had them fail? Just curious now.

 

First, brake lines cannot be "DOT Approved" which would imply they are inspected or certified, which the DOT does not do. They can be compliant with DOT standards, which means 2 things:

1) The hoses and fittings are DOT compliant parts

2) The manufacturer has been certified to manufacture hydraulic hoses for vehicles

The clear outer sheath is a nice feature but not needed for the hoses to be DOT compliant.

Joe

Thanks for the clarification, Joe. However, please note that the Centerline catalog lists them as "DOT Approved".

 

Ok, I have my new slotted rotors, new pads, new braided steel teflon coated flexible brake lines.

Q:
Are there any single use type bolts/screws/ etc? Anything mounting hardware that is there now that shouldn't be used on the new set up?

Thanks
Fib

 

I've had the same set of SS hoses since 1990. They look pretty good today.

Robert

 

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


I give up. I couldn't get the old rotor off. I didn't want to strip the other flat head screw.

I'll just put everything in the box and bring it my mechanic. Oh well, I tried. But it is so hot and humid I am easily tired and frustrated. And I'm out in a parking lot, which means transporting all of my tools out there to the curb, 10 trips alone for the jack, jack stands, tool box, 2nd tool box, water, **** 14 mm socket because it isn't with either tool box.

Rambling is done.
I'm going to have this done, I imagine that the results will still be worth it.

Thanks everyone!

Fib

Besides, this beer tastes good.

 

Fibonacci,
Be prepared for a "whirring" noise when you brake. Didn't see if anyone had mentioned that. It is completly normal with slotted rotors and more noticeable with drilled rotors. Personally, I like the sound.

Also, the slots are known to greatly decrease pad break-in time as degassing is not an issue. They are also better suited to wet stops as the water is pushed into the groove and doesnt get trapped between pad and rotor.

Enjoy your new brakes

 

that's a horrible thing to have happen... I guess that's a lesson well passed on. Don't ground on rubber isolated items when welding.

Maybe I'm wrong on the SS braided hoses. I'm really just going on what I was told many years ago. Possibly before they came wrapped in plastic sleeves.

Who has had SS hoses the longest without needing them replaced? Who has had them fail? Just curious now.

Well, I still have my original rubber(like) brake hoses on my '82 spider... have had the stainless hoses ( in the box ) for ~ 3ish years now...
Will put them on someday... brakes don't leak, all seems fine....

jeff
... bakes are good, tires fair...