do you want a project? or just a ready to cruise and go to wine tastings with cheese platters and posh speaking english men?
i personally would go the second option, i hate wine, cheese is nice with crackers and iv always wanted a posh speaking english friend to make fun of.... but most of all, i just want a finished 105 stepnose to putt about in because i see too many rust horrors on this site and dont have years to work on it, or that space to do it [yet].

ebay has had 2 or 3 "fully rebuild ground up" jobs on there lately, starting at around $10,000 with reserves, and buy it now's at round $20,000. dont know what the bidders finished off at or even if they sold...

 

I would also agree with the second one! About the ten grand mark is what I'm looking at. Step nose.....a bit out of my reach. Maybe a 1750 or a 2000 with solid mech and no horrid rust (had that on a fiat and turned into a very very expensive job). That being said I've never driven one and have NFI about what to look for.

 

Hi James,

Do what I didn't do.

Join your local Alfa club now. Go to meetings, go to events (even in your non-Alfa). Meet the people ask the ones who own them and drive them to the events. I'm sure you'll be given a ride sooner or later so you can feel what they're like and some of the owners will be more than happy to let you know about all of the issues. In NSW there are a few mechanics that are regular attenders of events (or go to the supersprints and meet the mechanics and drivers of the cars) and they'll be your best friends before and after you buy and you'll feel great knowing you are putting their kids through school.

You could also get the inside running on one selling through the club without going to the trouble of advertising and a known car sold by someone you'll be meeting again and again so less likely to be freshly painted over chewing gum.

You'd be lucky to get a no-ruster with no issues for $10k. Maybe one where the issues won't bite you real hard for a few years so you've got time to work on them. Add $5k and you are getting to the bottom end of the "nice" market rather than the top end of the "OMFG" market.

Whichever one you buy you'll love it and hate it. Be prepared for both.
Oh, and driving one once won't do it for you if you are used to modern soft transport, it'll be very "different". I bought mine without a test drive (yeah, I said to do what I didn't do) and the first drive was a horror (it broke down twice as well). It took a few goes to get the feel for the car and then we matched nicely.

 

Hi James,

Do what I didn't do.

Very nice post, Andrew!

 

Had a similar experience with a fiat 500F...

 

Or you do what I did when I couldn't find a nice 106, look at 116 gtvs.

And when I couldn't find a nice 116 gtv, I bought a 116 gtv6 instead!

This, in hindsight, was a much better idea all round as they make a much nicer road car IMHO.

 

That is Ok, but there is a quantum in difference in feel and style between the 105 and 116. I have had both and as well Fiats. Still have my 1750 GTV, Super, AC124 sport and my modern Alfa (156 JTS). Again like in 105s there are differences in feel, power etc. The GTV6 has the edge with its wonderful engine, but on the other hand the early model GT and GTV are perhaps a little purer in style. Mind you 116 GTVs also rust !

If you really want a 105 GTV, check out carsales as there is plenty on offer from 1600s, 1750s and 2L to choose from. Sure by all means join AROCA, but better still if you serious about wanting to get one, check some out that are for sale. Drive them, for you will find subtle differences between each car, depending on how well they have been cared for or restored, and there are differences between the models. I have driven pretty much all models of 105 GTVs (GTA and GTC not included for obvious reasons) and know this from first hand experience.

Mind you when I bought my 1750 GTV, it was in Melbourne and I had a mate test it out for me. The first time I got to drive it was after buying it, by driving from the airport back into the city and onto the boat home to Tassie. Great journey with absolutely no problems. I only paid $7.5K back in '97. It was in ok condition but not brilliant, but it has treated me very well.

My pick for the mix between the earlier and last of the 105 GTV is probably the 1750 S1 (mind you I am slightly biased). If I had the money, space and the missus allowed me I would have both a stepnose and my S1 1750. But that is not possible.

Goodluck in finding the right one for yourself.

 

...and then I discover the step nose 105....I better start saving...was this a feature on the Sprint gt and the 1300 J only? What is with Italians and confusing variants...

 

In essence James you are correct on all accounts. Alfa models can be a little confusing, especially to those new to the marque.

The Gt (the original one) came out in '63 or '64 can't quite recall. It was a stepnose, these continued until they brought out the veloce (hence GTV) both originally were 1600 cc. The differences between the early GT and GTV stepnoses include trim changes externally (ie bumpers, grills, lights etc), interior (seats, dash trim and steering wheel ?) and then some minor mechanical differences. Slightly more power in a GTV stepnose. I won't bring into the equation the GTA or GTC suffice to say these too were stepnose cars.

Alfa then brought out the 1300 stepnose with originally the early style dash setup but later on while still a stepnose it changed to the later instrument setup akin to the 1750. I am pretty sure the 1300 Junior continued until around 1970.

The series 1 1750 came out in '68 and was replaced by the s2 1750 in around 1970. These are flush nose cars. The S1 has the flying buttress seats, whereas the S2 has more conventional seats as per also the later model GTVs.

Around the same time '69 or so they replaced the 1600 GT Veloce with the 1600 junior with a flush nose. Later on I am pretty sure they also brought out a flush nose 1300 junior and finally around '72 or '73 the 2L GTV with again a different interior.

As I said in my previous post, the S1 GTV has the earlier style bumpers and rear tail lights, but a more modern dash in comparison to the early stepnose models. Many consider the 1750 instrument, consol setup to the best looking. Having said that I still would love a stepnose GTA replica. Don't get me started. Apart from saying the GTA was the factory race car, with alloy panels, twin plug head etc. They came in both 1300-1600, oh and then there was also the GTAM (based on a 1750 but with fuel injection, and seriously flared guards etc. The GTC was a convertible.

Hope that helps paint a picture. There are plenty of good books out there which will give you far greater detail and pictures etc.

One final thing, US spec cars also have some additional differences to Euro models which we got out here in Oz.

 

Suggest you also post your question on the Victorian AROCA forum, at Alfa Romeo Owners Club (Vic). That is accessed by a large number of Oz Alfisti with good knowledge of what is happening in the local market. You don't need to be a member to post.

 

Screw it...I'll just become a drug dealer and buy myself a GTA.

 

The metal on these cars wouldnt be thick enough to absorb much of a bullet's force. Maybe not the best idea.

There's a very nice bonafide 'as new' GT on carsales if you fancy a white GT.

 

The white one is an early GT, which are pretty rare these days, the restoration certainly appears to be fabulous, hence the likewise price tag.

If ones budget and/or driving requirements are less, then there are plenty to choose from, ie. 9 1750 GTVs alone starting from around $9K and going upwards to around $30K depending on condition and specifications etc.

There are also a couple of GTVs on ebay for sale as well.

 

Yeah, gta might not be such a good criminal car- I've decided on a late GTV 2000 and i'm going to wait until the right one pops up for about 10-15. I don't want a bomb but that being said 50 grand for a gt is a bit steep.....From what I have been told that buys you a good car with simple stuff to improve on-rather than cutting out body pannels and stripping engines down....

 

Hey James, probably a wise decision re the GTA and drug dealer caper, however, and as per my previous advice seriously mate, now is the time to pounce. There are a lot of cars out there not moving for various reasons, and I would suspect owners willing to haggle. But be aware, given the budget you are talking about you are not going to find the perfect car, as these go for much higher prices, but you should be able to find one you can enjoy and perhaps do some further tidying up on.

In thinking about what you say you want, I just did a quick check on carsales and there are at least 3 2L GTVs that fit the bill you are talking of, especially in terms of both condition and asking price.

There is a '73 silver car for $11.5K in NSW. On steel wheels with very tidy exterior (paint and panel straightness), very tidy interior and engine bay. According to the seller, the car has its service records (that is good), with recent work done to the brakes and a couple of other matters. Comes with new Pirellis, garaged and never driven in the rain. Supposedly has 239,000km on the clock.

The next one is a '74 Le Mans blue one with tan interior, on Momo vegas (read both relatively rare and expensive wheels), with a tidy interior and exterior. The engine bay looked a little scruffy but supposedly very good mechanicals. Supposedly has 49, 748km on the clock but I would expect it has been around once or twice. It is in Victoria.

The third one in your price range is a '72 Navy Blue one for $14K ono, I think in NSW. The engine bay looks tidy, carbs have ram tubes and socks (so read induction noise), it is on alloy wheels, apparently good mechanically and has had some minor rust repairs done. If it were me, I would want to check that properly to make sure it had been done correctly. Replaced headlights with high power units. The bumpers are removed but come with the car. Supposedly with 90,000 on the clock but I again undoubtedly at least once around the clock.

There were a couple of other cars available for between high $15-16 + but one was auto and the other to my mind looked like a tart box.

My point is they are out there. If your budget were to stretch higher to around the $20k mark I am sure there would be some really superb cars.

My pick of the 3 listed, if it were me, is probably either the silver or Le Mans blue one. As ever though best to do your homework and/or get the car you are interested in checked out by an Alfa (preferably 105) specialist.

 

Hi James,

I have seen most of the cars that are for sale via Ebay, drive and carsales currently. Although not specifically looking for a project I wanted something I could add value to and searched through the range from $9 1/2 to $27k. I had a budget up to low to mid 20's but initially thought $10-$15k would get me something decent to start with...it won't at the moment unless some of the parties are more realistic on price and the $10-$12k range is basically overpriced by at least 30% - largely accident damaged, rust rotted, junk. Nothing is selling at the current prices so there is no rush. Although not actually having seen the cars going out via the AROCA classifieds these cars did appear to be the best value if descriptions were to be relied on...which they quite often aren't. I've been to Qld twice in the last 6 weeks and SA once, chasing 105's. Too much to list here but if you want to send an email via the BB I'll give you a mobile number you can get me on and I can give you one person's idea of what was seen in the cars on offer. I bought today, so I'm no longer competition.

Buy the "Essential Guilietta Buyers Guide" - David at "Bookshop World" in Canterbury has them for about $15 - I bought one from Classic Alfa, before I knew I could get one locally and it kept me on track during inspections. In the end I had it down to a pretty fine art, but I still used the book.

Regards,

Mike

 

I can't comment as to the actualities of the specific cars that I pointed out that are out there for sale, but in truth I would be somewhat suspect at such comments that they are all rusted out and have been subject to major damage, simply because of the lower price being asked. Remember all of these cars are now at least 38 + years old and so pretty much all of them have had some panel damage and or rust issues to be attended to over the years.

In my experience, and I have had my GTV since '97 and been involved in 105 Alfas since the early '80s I would tend in general to disagree with such comments. Sure at the higher end of the market you are likely to get better condition/better restored cars but that is perfectly normal in any classic car market.

As I say, ultimately it comes down to your budget and what you are happy with/prepared to accept.

As to books while the one mentioned is perfectly fine, and by the way the correct title is "the essential Giulia and Giulietta Coupes and Spiders, in truth there are a raft of other books out there equally as good if not better in terms of information to provide to both the enthusiast or new owner.

Included in these are the Brooklands Books AR Giulia Coupes 1963-1976 (basically reprint of magazine articles from the period) good reference material. David Owens Alfa Romeo Always with Passion, AR Giulia History and Restoration by Pat Bradden and Jim Webber, and finally AR Giulia Coupe GT and GTA by John Tipler. I have a few others as well but they are relatively hard to find these days. Tipler's book by far is the best reference book to all the models while Bradens' more so in terms of the technical details.

 

Hi James,

Just a small point perhaps, but if you have not driven one have you sat in the drivers seat of a 105? If you are over 6 foot tall you should before buying. I have wanted one since I was twelve (nearly forty years) and have nearly bought one twice. I am 6'2" and even with a dished stearing wheel and seat modified to go back an extra inch I find it extremely difficult to drive a 105. The gear shift ends up under my knee.

I currently have an Alfasud Sprint and 147 GTA. I will get a 105 one day despite the discomfort so I'm not trying to turn you off them. Just trying to avoid disappointment if you are particularly tall. Several really good ALFA 105 mechanics have concluded they are not ideal for really tall people.


cheers

Paolo

 

Know what you mean Paolo. I'm 6'4" and while I've had 105's since the late 70's I actually havent had a GTV on the road of my own for 20 odd years. Everytime I get into one at driver training I have to squeeze myself in and if it's got a roll cage forget it!

 

Hey guys I know what you mean, but all things are relative. I am roughly 6' 1" to 6' 2" and actually feel right at home in my GTV. To me the relationship between pedals, steering wheel (and it is the standard Hellebore), and gearstick are ideal.

On the other hand try fitting into a Fiat 850 sport, a Honda S800 or even a Triumph GT6 and it is a different story. Now they are a little more cramped.

 

Hey guys I know what you mean, but all things are relative. I am roughly 6' 1" to 6' 2" and actually feel right at home in my GTV. To me the relationship between pedals, steering wheel (and it is the standard Hellebore), and gearstick are ideal.

6'2" here and likewise thing my GT Veloce is a wonderfull thing to drive - even fit with plenty of room with a helmet.

 

Well, i bought my '74 GTV for $8000 back in 2005. Yes, it had rust and i was well aware of that, but it was all i could afford at the time. It had excellent mechanicals with stacks of receipts going back for several years.

I did the bodywork myself, all up i spent maybe another $8 to 9k on replacement panels, primer, paint, consumables, interior items such as re-skinned dash, new headliner, new windscreen, SS exhaust etc but i did it all myself (have a welder, compressor, tools etc)

So that’s already $16 to 17k there and i still want to go right through the suspension (another $3k).

So i guess the moral of the story is, if you don't want to get your hands too dirty or pay others to do the work i would save up at least $18-20k and get a real nice one, or more for a stepnose

 

James:

1. I've never owned a 105 coupe.

2. I have owned a 105 Duetto and a Giulia sedan.

3. My recommendation is to educate yourself, believe half what you read, and none of what you are told (which renders this post void)

4. As others have said, get yourself into a club, and to club events. Even if you can't get to an Alfa-specific club, try other clubs dealing with older cars. There is not much uniquely Alfa when it comes to owning and maintaining a 40-50yo car (I'm assuming you haven't experience in this area).

5. Books: Remember those? They are a rectangualr device consisting of sheets of paper. Not saying you need to become an expert overnight but to understand the 105 it helps to understand Alfa Romeo more broadly. If you only buy one Alfa book (yeah right) I recommend Pat Braden's Alfa Bible read cover-to-cover, although this will make more sense to you once you've gotten your hands dirty. Second, aimed squarely at the 105, would be Chris Saville's The Giulia Coupes, or one of the buyers guides (Keith Brooker-Alfa Romeo Giulia GT Coupe. The last two fit in a glovebox and help deciphering the different models. Be a little careful of differences between Europe, USA, UK in both models, and in the language used.

6. Don't hold back with questions. I've likely forgotten more about Alfas than I know, and still get confused about the **** things.