The Alfa guru in my area (Robert Richards of Shadetree Enginetrix) answered my similar question by saying that he really likes the Fiat 124 Spiders. They're a "20 year newer design than the Alfa Spider" . They have different virtues than the Alfas.

During the discussion I was examining a 124 Spider that was pretty much stripped for restoration. There appears to be zero parts compatibility between the two cars (an impression confirmed by looking the IAP, Centerline, Vicks, et al catalogs). The similarity ends at both being Italian sports convertibles with the same conceptual starting point. Robert, his wife Cindy (who is a serious Italian car addict as well) and I had an interesting discussion about the two designs. It was a split decision as to which is more fun. So, while I don't think this forum will be able to help much beyond suggesting some parts sources, I think you and your girlfriend are going to enjoy the car quite a lot after you've gotten it sorted.

It will be interesting to hear your opinion on the two cars after you had it for a while and can can give us your impressions of the two.

 

Thanks for the response Loki, I'm looking forward as well to gauging the differences between the two. I'll be bringing the car home today and I will see if my BWA Track stars will fit it. I did notice that the outside door handles are identicle to the S2 Spider but beyond that, who knows.

 

I believe the door handles and the "f" badges are the same.

 

Oh, and they use the same type of lubricants. Beyond that, there isn't much compatible. Keep in mind that Fiat and Alfa were competing companies back in the 70's.

I owned a '71 Fiat spider back in the mid 70's, and it was a wonderful car. The convertible top mechanism was a thing of beauty - it yeilded much better visibility than the Alfa top & windows. I found that my Fiat's build quality was a bit poorer than that found on an Alfa - my 124's electrical system would fall apart from time-to-time. Maybe this was improved by the 80's.

 

Fiat bolt pattern is 4x98mm. 105/115 Alfa is 4x108. 116 Alfetta are 4x98.

 

on the fuel injection part..keep it on the car..it's a lot better than carbs.. and the fiat has a very similar system to the alfa bosch system.. easy to keep up,, carb. don't help with hp. they just waste fuel

 

Yea, I'd say the Farina badges and maybe the defroster vents are the only things I can think of. We owned a couple of Fiat 124's before we got the Alfa, one was a '71 Sport Coupe and the other was a '72 Spider. The coupe was an absolute blast to drive - both were carbed.

Although it's true that the Fiat was a newer design the Alfa was definitely an upgrade with better quality components. One thing I never liked about the Fiats were the cheap feeling plastic (fake wood) steering wheels. Also, most of the suspension components were stamped rather than forged among other details. It was an obviously less expensive car.

 

Italia

They came from the same country too ! Also spelled different.

 

remember the fiat 124 spider had a v. successful WRC rally history.........which the alfa never had.
I wonder if it had a stronger chassis than the alfa? as much an alfisti I am - I would not like to take an alfa spider on a World Rally Championship, it might well fall apart before you get past the first stage

........but, on pure looks and charisma, the alfa has it hands down

 

Very different cars in feel and character. I much prefer the Alfa's in terms of feel, driving position, interior design and engine character.

However, the Fiat design is quite nice and well balanced.

 

Lot's of opinion on these cars, thanks to all. I'm leaving right now to bring it home and I'm looking forward to the upcoming process of turning this little Fiat into another head turner. Seems solid and rust free and with the new top fresh mechanicals and all it should be an easy job. Still don't think I'll get the same kind of "I love it!" feel I get from my Alfa.

Best Regards, I'll keep you all posted.
Darrell

P.S. The fiat forum admin. still hasn't gotten around to opening my account on their board. Value this community more with every day.

 

I had an '81 (by then called a Spider 2000) that had the Legend Industries turbo. Only added about 15 HP, made the engine run hot and tended to cook the pistons. Never happened to me but the sensor and switch controlling the electric radiator fans was always failing so it was only going to be a matter of time. For handling, it was far short of the Alfa, but it was still a fun car.

 

If Bianchi of all people is telling you NOT to modify something, you should probably listen

In all seriousness, if it's got electronic fuel injection already then you'd be nuts to go to carbs.

 

If Bianchi of all people is telling you NOT to modify something, you should probably listen

LOL. Good point Gubi. After all, Bianchi being the reigning king of alternatives!

 

Just got the car home. The rough idle I'd noticed when viewing the car originally disappeared on the drive home and I think I'll get more knowlegable about the injection and try to coexist with it at least till I just can't help myself any longer. Candy fell in love with the little car on the drive home and it seems to run strong and handle well. Car came with IAP red springs, konis and all new suspension bits along with vented, crossdrilled rotors. All for 1400.00. Maybe a good start.
Thanks to all, Darrell

 

I love that 124 Spider. Been looking for the right one for over a year now.

 

 

I guess I was very fortunate to find this one. E bay has always kinda left me feeling uncertain of what I'm seeing. Found this one after a very short search and it was 15 miles from home. Must have a horseshoe lodged somewhere where it won't get faded by excessive sun exposure.

 

I guess I was very fortunate to find this one. .

Sounds like a great find. I test drove a 73 in, 74. I stuck with my 850 Spider thanks to Pininfarina. The extra power was great with 124 though.


P.S. I'm with Bianchi on keeping the injection.

 

Having owned a Fiat Spider for many years, I can honestly say that the Fiat is a more modern production car which was conceived and manufactured to make big profits. Hence, generally cheaper materials were used and it was priced to sell (much lower sticker price than Alfa) in large volumes mainly to the US market. Some of the advantages of the the Fiat is the cost of ownership and maintenance is IMO much less than Alfas. Parts are generally available. It seems to have less parts to it and so easier to repair and reassemble. The double overhead cam was designed by a famous engineer and the body was designed by Pininfarina (which also assembled the car in the 80's hence the same door handles as the Alfa Spider were used). The drawback is that since there are so many, the values do not seem to hold up very well. It's biggest weakness believe or not is serious rust issues and Italian electronics. Fisrt place to look is for rust in the front shock towers.
There are some excellent Fiat clubs in the USA with very helpful members and devotees that have been working on these cars for over 40 years. I believe Mirafiori is one of the oldest. I'm sure you will have lots of fun and learn a lot.
My advice would be to familiarize yourself very well with the car before making major modifications. Drive it for a few months and make sure it's a keeper.
Enjoy, James

 

It's biggest weakness believe or not is serious rust issues and Italian electronics. Fisrt place to look is for rust in the front shock towers.

Yes, there was actually a recall of them back in the 70's due to this. I read that part of the problem was inferior steel but there also was a design flaw. It happened to my '72 Spider and eventually killed the car because it's virtually impossible to fix. Another weak spot is where the rear panhard rod mounts to the chassis. If that rusts or breaks there's no significant structure back there to weld it back on to for a good repair.

Check the front shock towers with an awl. If they are bad it will poke right through them.

 

The two Italian Spiders are looking much similar and conceptual alike and designed by Pininfarina. Both build on the floor pan of a mid sized (European, that is) sedan and both sistered by as beautiful coupes.
But whereas the Giulia was a true and true sports sedan, the Fiat 124 was family sedan, a good one as such. The 124 was lanced 4 years later than the Giulia, but both were much alike in conception. The two sedans were very differently priced and the 124 went on to make Fiat big profits - when the sedan 124 was up for replacement Fiat sold the 124 and a turnkey factory to build it to the Soviet Union - and was payed in crap re circled steel which Fiat in turn sold to Alfa. Both Fiat and Alfa suffer to this day for the rust buckets they turned out in the 60s and 70s in the opinion of car buyers in Europe.
Erik

 

But for most of California and the south west where rust was not an issue the result of the bad rep were some outstanding prices on some really great cars.

When the wife and I got married in the mid 70's and were looking for our first used car I remember we test drove an Audi 100 and I was thinking it was okay but it didn't really tickle my fancy. Then we saw that little '71 124 Coupe and it was "Oh yea, now we're talking!"

38 years later and we have never been without at least one Italian car in the driveway. Even today the prices of the survivors make it easy to own an Alfa. Nobody in his right mind buys a car as an investment anyway so I'll take the cheap prices and make good use of them.

 

Fiat vs. Alfa Spiders

I currently own neither, but have had both cars in the past, two Fiat Spiders (a '76 124 Spider (1600cc) and '80 2000 Spider), and a '78 Alfa Spider. For a couple of years, until fairly recently, I was a member of the local chapters of both the Alfa and Fiat clubs until selling my most recent Alfa, an ill-fated Milano Gold. So I can compare the Spiders directly, but only from memory. Interestingly, they are very similar cars on paper: two-seater roadsters with front-mounted twincam 4 cylinder motors, lightweight solid rear axles with coil springs and four longitudinal trailing arms to locate them, and disk brakes all around. They're about the same size and weight, and (as previously reported) both have body designs by Pininfarina.

I would say that although the Alfa FEELS better-built, it really isn't (in terms of the fragility and reliability of components). The two cars have similar handling: moderate understeer with some rear axle hop on rough surfaces. The Alfa interior seems more luxurious and less tacky to me, but the downside is that parts and service are considerably harder to find and much more expensive. Alfa, as everyone here knows, always seemed to take the most complicated and arcane (but elegant) path to every engineering task, so the cars can be pretty difficult to work on. Don't even get me started on SPICA fuel injection! Fiats are more straightforward in design, but can have their own challenges, for sure. In the ideal world, we could have one of each, and drive whichever suits our mood at the moment.

Dave Spiegelthal
Centreville, VA
'71 Fiat 850 Spider
'77 Fiat X1/9
'86 VW Vanagon

 

Conceptually the designs are nearly identical but the Fiat was definitely a lower echelon example. The suspension arms were all steel stampings, brake calipers were single piston, rear axle was a one piece steel unit. They were geared towards high volume mass production which, as you correctly pointed out, Alfa never seemed sincerely interested in. One only needs to look at the Alfetta, Milano and GTV6 designs to see how Alfa was being run by engineers rather than salesmen. They were all designs that were doomed to fail, not because they were flawed or inferior but because they were complex and expensive to build.

They also had a penchant for resting on their laurels and abandoning their own children. At one time the Spider held the distinction of being the second longest running production automobile, next to the Porsche 911. But unlike Porsche, who continually tweaked and improved the 911 (on an apparent quest to prove that they didn't have the engine at the wrong end) Alfa didn't do much with the Spider other than tack on whatever was necessary to get it to comply with new EPA or DOT regulations. When they pulled out of the U.S. that was the end of it.

Of course they were struggling at the time and they weren't the only ones guilty of such things. Look at the abomination that grew out of the Datsun 240Z for example.

 

I have had 75, 78, and two 81 Fiat Spiders. I still can drive my 81 Anniversary Spider when I vist my friend.

I owned 74 to 87 Fiat 124, 131, Brava, X1/9, Spider 2000 models from 1980 to 1995 and it was lots of fun!

If you have a Fiat Spider 2000 with L-jetronic Fuel Injection I say keep it that way.

 

I've worked on a number of 124Spiders from 74 through to 81 versions and the only really bad thing I have to say is the electrical is hoaky on a good day. However, once you embrace that and become meticulous about cleaning connectors and applying electrical grease to everything it's really not bad. I had a customer come in with a 78 with the dash sitting on the front seat...there looked to be a hundred spade connectors all hanging loose from the gaping hole above the steering wheel . Two things i learned from that experience. 1.)Find yourself the wiring diagrams...probably the most important of the two. 2.) Label wires as you take them off and take pictures. That said by 1980 they moved up to molded plugs so getting things screwed up is a little harder.
I have found that there are similarities between the two in terms of the way things were done. Similar to looking at a Ford, GM and Mopar. Items like over head cams, where different set-ups between them, are very similar in setting gaps etc. If you've done a Fiat you can do an Alfa and vice versa. My grad is the first Alfa I've worked on but feel very comfortable with her because of the work I've done on Fiats.

 

Oh ya...I love driving my father-in laws 74. We spent a fair amount of time rebuilding her and getting her dressed up.. Really fun little car.

 

I was in the imported car parts business from 1972 through about 1998, which gave me a hands-on look at the guts of what went into various cars. It is an interesting insight.

The Fiat was a mass-produced car in much larger quantities than Alfa. Thus, Fiat was able to get vendors to supply lowest-cost components throughout the car. Brakes, electrics, valves, etc. The parts they used were common to very little else on the road, which tended to make them harder to find, and less reliable as they had not gone through generations of natural-selection.

Alfa was a much lower-volume car, so they tended to shop for parts already available from major vendors. Thus, electrics, brakes, clutches, etc were either identical or clearly derived from similar parts found on Porsche, Mercedes, Opel, etc. This actually makes for a lot of interchangeability, but more importantly these parts tended to have evolved with time to a high state of reliability BEFORE Alfa selected them for use.

We made a lot of money when our primary customers were Fiat, MG, Triumph, Healy, and Jaguar. Not so much when the world shifted to Toyota, Honda, and Datsun. Alfas were never profitable to us, as they very rarely broke. Rust - well - that was another issue.