Alfa Romeo Forums banner
41 - 60 of 92 Posts
Hi, One other thing that you may want to think about and see if anyone has any experience is:

When you weld the top, the weld filet will shrink upon cooling and it may pull the shaft up a very small amount. Welders typically restrain their work if this shrinkage could be an issue. If you determine this is a real risk you can assemble your parts with a removable (afterwards) shim at the desired clearance you want and use the assembly to restrain the shaft.

A good knowledgeable welder may also have techniques he uses to minimize weld shinkage pull.

regards

Ken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Norseman50
Thank you GV27. No I need to stop trying to over analyze this idler. OK I will extend tje shaft a bit and make sure it has play at 23 ft/lb torque.

Ken, thanks !! had not thought about that. I will therefore make sure to give the shaft a extra very little length in case the weld shrinks. I thought about mounting the whole thing together and having it welded then but I'm scared it may get too hot and affect the aluminum casing.

Will report back so we have a trace of what I did for the next rebuilder :)

last note: I could of never done this without the equipment I had at work, especially the 20 ton press which was barely enough. I would not have attempted this at home in my garage.... would of taken a ton more time if not being stuck with a shaft I could not get out and would have to drill out !!
 
Thank you GV27. No I need to stop trying to over analyze this idler. OK I will extend tje shaft a bit and make sure it has play at 23 ft/lb torque.

Ken, thanks !! had not thought about that. I will therefore make sure to give the shaft a extra very little length in case the weld shrinks. I thought about mounting the whole thing together and having it welded then but I'm scared it may get too hot and affect the aluminum casing.

Will report back so we have a trace of what I did for the next rebuilder :)
If it took a lot of force to push the new shaft in then maybe this is a non issue. Check with your welder or someone here who has done this or with whoever you bought the kit from.

Bonne Chance

KEN
 
you say you need to use a press to push it in?...

if once it is all welded up you cannot turn it by hand then something is wrong.

When a mechanic rebuilt mine it was nigh impossible to turn by hand.

and once on the car it made a hell of a screeching noise (binding) when turning the steering.

I took the whole thing out again and reamed it myself till it just turned by hand with grease.
I bought one of these adjustable reamers to do the job:
 

Attachments

Installing the bushings by hand is no problem.
Just a thought: Won't loose bushing to housing fit cause the shaft to bind to the bushing and make it spin and damage the housing?

This is how an experienced Alfa mechanic explained the "fit" between the shaft and the bushing to me:
tight enough to be able to turn idler arm by hand, without much initial bind/lock, but not loose to the point where it easily spins with a finger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Norseman50
I bought the rebuild kit just in case I need it and it does not have the seal?
SU080 STEERING IDLER REPAIR KIT - Classic Alfa
why?
because they sell them separate....more money to make!
101-022 STEERING IDLER BOX/WISHBONE BUSH SEALING RING

In post #36 I gave a link to a dutch shop with a couple of those seals (PN 60547732), original, dear, and they list a different size, go figure....

The kit is basically useless unless you have exacting skills at welding the new shaft to the arm (in the EXACT same position, same depth so that the end play is EXACTLY correct)
I used the two bushes and reamed them to fit the old shaft that was in decent condition.

read the whole thread, Roland changed the shaft, it wasn't an easy job by the sounds of it.
 
Here is the tech bulletin on the recall on the 91 Spiders. This give the torque specs for just about every nut and bolt involved in the replacement. The pitman arm puller and adapter are OTC tools. Which worked really well.

The seal should be really easy to make. Just a piece of foam style rubber. Like old American car door gaskets were made out of.
 

Attachments

STEERING PARTS DIAGRAM - Classic Alfa I have a flat washer 2.5mm thick sandwiched between the aluminum idler casting and the body of the car at the 3 mounting bolts. I have not seen this in any parts blow up. I have a lock washer with the nut at the 2 locations that hold the steering stop and at the 1 nut towards the rear a bigger fender washer as well as the lock washer.
 

Attachments

Is there anywhere in the US to get the bushings? It looks like I need to do this. With my hand on the base of the pitman arm and and my fingers around the housing, I can feel the shaft move when the wheel is wobbled. Would like to order and get in a few days if possible. CL has the whole kit, but I think I just want to do the bushings.
 
Is there anywhere in the US to get the bushings? It looks like I need to do this. With my hand on the base of the pitman arm and and my fingers around the housing, I can feel the shaft move when the wheel is wobbled. Would like to order and get in a few days if possible. CL has the whole kit, but I think I just want to do the bushings.
afaik no-one in US does them separate, you'll have to buy the kit and just use the bushes
depends on year...you don't mention what year?

In any case it might be worth taking it apart first to see what's what...maybe the shaft is toast so new bushings won't help.

Also, it seems the bushes are different for the S4 spider idler (power steering, maybe they beefed up the idler shaft?):
Classic alfa list them as for S4 spider
SU161 STEERING IDLER BUSH SPIDER S4
EB Spares list them for all spiders up to -90
Steering idlers bushes. for Alfa Romeo 105

postage from UK from the better suppliers is sometimes quicker than if you ordered from US!

CL lists the 'kit' for 71-94 spiders (maybe the kit is different because the bushes come sized to the shaft)
 
Well, I bought a kit from Classic Alfa (SU080) incase my idler box needed repair. When I took it out and apart it wasn't bad, but there was nothing in the idler kit I could use unless I used all of it. Like using the new shaft and welding it on the old arm then use the new bushings and thrust washers and nut as none of the parts were correct for the original shaft!
 
Well, I bought a kit from Classic Alfa (SU080) incase my idler box needed repair. When I took it out and apart it wasn't bad, but there was nothing in the idler kit I could use unless I used all of it. Like using the new shaft and welding it on the old arm then use the new bushings and thrust washers and nut as none of the parts were correct for the original shaft!
meaning what exactly, the bushes in the kit were too loose on the old shaft?
I could use the bushes in the kit for my S4, but they had to be reamed out to fit the old shaft, no way they'd fit w/o reaming
 
A few random thoughts/questions:

-Huh, am I reading that right: does the S4 have a different idler shaft size than the earlier cars?

-If I'm remembering correctly the OEM ones were steel with like a yellow teflon coating on them right? Which probably works fine at first but then that's where the wear comes from. Or did the S4 switch to bronze bushings like CA is selling?

-If you're going to use the bronze ones I'd probably recommend drilling the idler for a grease nipple and keeping it filled

-I've installed the CA ball bearing idler box on a couple of cars now and can highly recommend it. The idler arm is no longer the sliding surface with this, so even if it's got some pitting it should still be okay provided it doesn't have play when installed in the bearings. Be sure to take the time to shim out any vertical play in the new box
 
41 - 60 of 92 Posts