In Italy, I've never seen a crest like this. Even the Biscione is strange...
Are you sure it's original?

 

I don't know what "original" means as far as these dealer signs are concerned. Did Alfa Romeo make them or where they made by different manufactures? What I can say for a fact is that it had been hanging in front of a mechanic shop since 1975 and was reportedly produced around the mid-60s. It looks really old.

 

Also I have seen many different versions of the Biscione on these dealer signs that it is impossible for me to say that anyone is the original type.

 

 

"Original" means supplied directly by Alfa Romeo, the parent company. Of course, Alfa Romeo didn't make them themselves, but relied on trusted companies that had to meet very strict standards to produce them. However, it was Alfa Romeo that supplied those signs directly to dealerships and authorized workshops.

Your crest was probably commissioned by the mechanical workshop you mentioned from a general company specialized in shop signs.

What I can assure you—since I’ve spent many years visiting Alfa Romeo workshops and dealerships... and not just those—is that there has never been an original Alfa Romeo crest like yours, either on the cars or hanging outside an Alfa Romeo workshop or dealership.

That said, your crest is still a beautiful item.

 

The shop got the sign from an authorized dealer. In fact the shop owner worked for a dealership owned by Gaston Andre (Autodelta team driver) in the USA before he opened his own shop. According to him he bought the sign when another dealership he knew closed.

I’m just curious because, yes, it’s not quite like any other sign I’ve seen.

 

From 1950 to 1971, the true Alfa Romeo emblem was as follows:

 

When I look at the signs that have been offered on BaT I see many variations of the “Milano” period signs, some in relief and some flat, also with different coloration and details of the Biscione. Is it possible that Alfa was more loose in what the signs look like than Ferrari for example?

My sign is definitely an oddity because of the script. I actually prefer it to the block letters.

 

I have many Alfa dealer signs, and I like this one.

 

I like the way the hinge is made....with little dowels and cotter pins, that is certainly old.
you can see it is a well manufactured piece...probably cost a lot of money even back in its day.

are there no other markings on it apart from the number on the hinge?

 

I couldn’t find any other markings. To be honest I didn’t look very carefully but everything about it is really old. I removed the fluorescent bulb housing which weighs at least 70 pounds and replaced with led bulbs. I’m saving what I removed. The bulbs used are no longer made and I couldn’t find a currently available replacement of the same length.

 

I am currently following a BaT auction for a Ferrari sign that’s generated a bit of controversy and that’s what got me thinking about asking about my Alfa dealer sign.

No Reserve: Illuminated Ferrari Sign

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: Illuminated Ferrari Sign at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #183,220.

bringatrailer.com

A comment about how Ferrari makes signs using companies located at the dealer’s country matches my assumption of how Alfa Romeo probably worked, if not still work. I took another look at the fluorescent bulb holder I removed for signs of who furnished the ballast and it’s an American company named Advance, I think they are (at least currently) owned by Phillips.

Can anyone confirm if Alfa used local companies to make local dealer signs? Is it possible one of those dealers had some say on the use of script rather than block letters to write “Alfa Romeo”? That’s my inclination but of course I don’t actually know that to be the case.

 

I took another look at the fluorescent bulb holder I removed for signs of who furnished the ballast and it’s an American company named Advance, I think they are (at least currently) owned by Phillips.

View attachment 1872322

Call the 1-800 number at the bottom of the Advance sticker and see if it still works!

An 800 number probably points to that component of the sign being from the 80s or later though. They were mostly an expensive novelty before that.

 

Advance is definitely still around and still makes ballasts although this particular model is no longer available. It is one of those components one expects to change over time so I suppose it doesn’t say much about the initial equipment inside.

 

Most likely your sign is a replica that was made in late 90s/early 00s. Or it was made in 70s but was "restored" with modern components in early 00s.

The concerning elements are: not correct branding, film that was used instead of paint, bar code and other symbols, and "Assembled in Mexico" script

 

The sign was already hanging outside the shop building in 1975 so I know it predates the electrical components inside. According to the mechanic, he bought it from an Alfa dealership that had it for some years prior.

 

Below are a few examples of the dealer signs from the same era and from different places. You can see that almost all of them were standard.

 

And with a random guy

 

Super pics. Joseph (seppi) Siffert Alfa/Porsche, Fribourg Switzerland. BRM casualty Brands Hatch ‘71. Circuit of his 1st GP victory 3 years earlier.

 

Great pictures. I’ll risk giving him a call this morning to see if I can get more information and a copy of a photo of his shop when it opened in 1975. The sign very well may be a custom build outside of the official channel but I have no doubt about its age.

Incidentally I contacted this mechanic after a few years of searching for him to ask about history of his former race car I am currently restoring. The only reason he agreed to talk to me was because of the car, then he gave me the sign to go with the car.

 

I just spoke to the mechanic I got the sign from and he told me he bought the sign from Patrick Motors in Worcester Massachusetts (USA), a factory authorized Alfa Romeo dealer who also sold Saabs and other makes. He said the sign was double-sided and hung outside the dealership. I do not see a photo of it in the article below that I found about the dealership but when Patrick closed the Alfa Romeo franchise, he bought the sign from them. He sold off one side of the sign and hung the other against the face of his own shop. Then when Alfa Romeo left the US in the mid 90s he was asked to take the sign down. What he did instead was remove the face from the sign and had a new plain flat face made with his own business name.

The Patrick Motor Group History | Patrick Motors

www.patrickmotors.com

When I got the sign he gave me the remaining face he had removed and I had to take the housing off the building, still with the replacement plain face he put on it. I have since moved the side with his name to the back of the housing and put the Alfa face on the front with the hinge.

I asked about the possibility the sign was not issued by Alfa Romeo given the discrepancy in font with other Alfa signs of the period, he thought it was a ridiculous question and pointed to the fact that Patrick was a factory-authorized Alfa Romeo dealer and that was the sign he had in front of his dealership the entire time he sold Alfas. As far as he is concerned, that is the sign Alfa Romeo issued to Patrick.

I love history like this, especially the period photos. Great stuff.

 

 

I asked about the possibility the sign was not issued by Alfa Romeo given the discrepancy in font with other Alfa signs of the period, he thought it was a ridiculous question

Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.

It is extremely unlikely—if not impossible—that a factory would issue an official sign with this evident discrepancy with the official emblem.

Condsidering aso it's not in rleief, the most reasonable explanation is that this is a custom part made by someone, possibly to replace a broken item.

Of course, you are free to believe it is original, but if you want to convince me (and likely others), it is up to you to prove that the sign is authentic. And a period photo of this specific sign would not be a proof.

 

Exactly!
I completely agree.
That insignia has nothing original and/or official, neither in the design nor in the structure.
Of course, everyone is free to believe whatever they want...

 

It doesn’t really matter but what I think (fanciful thinking here) is that Patrick had the sign made for his official dealership because that’s the font he preferred. No one will mistake that sign for anything but Alfa Romeo. The mechanic was in a position to know the dealership well (he worked at another local dealership) and if tells me that this is the sign Patrick had the whole time then that’s what was there regardless of how it got there.

Look at this one for example with the way the man in the snake’s mouth is depicted, are there others like that or someone’s fanciful interpretation of that component.

No Reserve: Illuminated Alfa Romeo Sign

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: Illuminated Alfa Romeo Sign at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #100,043.

bringatrailer.com

 

Very interesting... I have had this sign in my shop longer than i can remember. Not sure where it came from but i am in MA so it does track with your source. Clearly it is the same design.

 

Now that’s the most interesting thing that’s likely to happen to me today! Your sign is probably the missing side of my once two-sided sign. The retired Alfa mechanic that gave me my sign a few months ago told me he sold the other face when he first got it decades ago because he wanted to hang the sign against his building rather than free standing as designed.

I am in Massachusetts as well. I’ve reached out to Patrick Motors to see if they have a photo of the sign from their Alfa Romeo days.

I’ll PM you.

 

now what were the chances of that happening! Incredible!

you two guys should go out and by a lottery ticket

 

I communicated with KTR privately and it turns out the picture he posted of his sign is just one face of a complete sign in their possession, which means that mine is not a one-off. That make investigating who, when, where and why that much more interesting -- just for the fun of it.