[Graham D]

Cupped seal (gasket #18A, post #1) inserts into shaft guide (pictured above) quite easily provided shaft guide is firmly mounted in a steady vise, is slathered up with engine assembly lube and pinched together between your fingers. Carefully ease to it's final resting place with the aid of a small, blunt punch. The two o-rings in post #2 are 14MM ID x 1.5MM. They install in the reliefs on either side the early configuration of pulley #4 under mounting bolt #12. Keeps your moly grease in and the dirt out. The later pulley configuration has oil impregnated bronze bushings and no reliefs as o-rings no longer required.

 

[kredden]

OK, that may explain my issue with the two big o-rings, mine didn't have a space for those O-rings.

Thanks on saying which way the seal goes in, meant to ask that too.

Where does the O-ring that goes on the part I pressed out go? Mine didn't have one. Is it a big one that goes around the big lip that seals this piece to the bottom of the tensioner body?

Thanks,
Kevin

Edit: Added picture - o-ring goes in green area?

 

[1166]

There may be the o-ring stuck in the tensioner body. Whatever color it is, it should fit where you have the green line in post #22. I believe the body has a chamfer where the o-ring seals. A SMALL amount of sealer may be of use as well.

 

[Toro67]

Hi

Has anyone had any luck finding a new roller bearing ?

I tried the local Alfa dealer, but getting things for a GTV6 is pretty tough. They can´t even search for this model in their database, since it´s too old.

Anyway, my bearing is made by SKF, and has a 6-digit number on it. I called SKF here in Denmark, and they said the number refers to a drawing , not a part number ! They say Alfa Romeo initially ordered the bearing at SKF Italy on special order, so SKF does not have it in their program.
After that I gave up, and switched to the mechanical de-tensioner instead, but I would still like to recondition the hydraulic one. Maybe someone else can use it

 

[Graham D]

The SKF bearing was unique to this application; no cross-over manufacturer part. SKF 'could' produce a special run but it would be of at least 50 units or up. One callow fellow designed a roller modification employing a pair of readily available and inexpensive single row sealed bearings, sleeves and spacers but I can no longer find it.

 

[kredden]

You can still find the bearings around. I just bought one from Vick Auto within the last six months I think.

Kevin

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Hi

Has anyone had any luck finding a new roller bearing ?

I tried the local Alfa dealer, but getting things for a GTV6 is pretty tough. They can´t even search for this model in their database, since it´s too old.

Anyway, my bearing is made by SKF, and has a 6-digit number on it. I called SKF here in Denmark, and they said the number refers to a drawing , not a part number ! They say Alfa Romeo initially ordered the bearing at SKF Italy on special order, so SKF does not have it in their program.
After that I gave up, and switched to the mechanical de-tensioner instead, but I would still like to recondition the hydraulic one. Maybe someone else can use it

Same bearing is used on 164 24v engine but with different center piece you have to press it out and swap the old center piece from your old bearing.

That 24v piece maybe hard to find, too as car also out of production over 10 years now. Maybe same bearing used on 156 and 166 24v models.

 

[ToonRboy]

I wonder if Rex ever got the oil supply tube's O-rings off? Hope he saved 'em so he could go and try to match 'em up. I don't see why you couldn't find suitable replacements at the local AutoZone or fully stocked hardware store...

In the world of American dealerships, there is NO WAY they would bother rebuilding this thing. The American way is to replace! (much quicker - even though they'd still book you an easy grand to do it).

When the package arrived and I saw all those O-rings, I knew it was "time to suffer". That's why I laid everything out in "blow-up" fashion to try and help my fellow DIY-ers (and myself) see where they all go.

Where does the O-ring that goes on the part I pressed out go? Mine didn't have one.

Try laying them all out kredden and see if it's still missing. Since I didn't replace that one, I'd be glad to mail it to you.

 

[kredden]

Thanks for the offer but I have that one, finally got the old one out, quite the pain. Haven't tried jamming the new one in there yet, looks to be almost as bad.

What I'm talking about here is the cup shaped seal INSIDE the brass piece, not the big o-ring that I mention in post #22.

Kevin

 

[RexCars]

Thanks, ToonerBoy

It seemed like nobody but me could read that post.

So here's what happened: my 11 year old daughter was on the phone in the kitchen near the de-tensioner, and she must have been playing with it because the two missing o-rings were actually wrapped around the heads of the two allen bolts on the idler pulley. I found them several days after my post, saving me the $50 cost of buying another rebuild kit.

The car is back together, but covered tonight in snow. What I hope is my sole remaining problem is getting an appropriate copper washer for the bleed screw on the thermostat. I found a copper washer at Autozone, but it seems kind of thick. Without the washer, the car leaks coolant from the bleeder -- quite impressively so when the coolant is warmed up.

Thanks,
Rex

 

[1166]

Be careful with the bleeder. The 'lip' on it has a tendency to bent up and crack if it is overtightened. Take a good look at it and if the lip is bent up, get another.

 

[superloaf]

This is where they leak nearly 99% of the time. My suggestion would be to put some good wurth silicone in the recess let is slightly set then insert the seal with some wurth sealer on it as well. Let it sit over night and re-install de-tensioner.
I have not had a leak and most who do this will not as well. The seal supplied is just ever so slightly too small and the silicone seals it up tight.

Nice post.
Jason

which wurth silicone is best to use? and is there a generic equivalent like permatex which is easier to find? just want to get the right one so it won't seep out in the oil or clump up somewhere in the engine and there seem to be literally hundreds of different sealants/sealers/silicones/etc.

also, be careful separating the pieces pictured above. i tried the C-clamp with a socket and ended up bending the groove where the rubber boot attaches. luckily i have another detensioner and on the second i put the wide flat part of the C clamp (the solid part which does not rotate as you crank) where the socket would go with NO socket and tightened the clamp as tight as i could which is NOT enough to separate. i then slightly wacked the clamp (still tightened) and tensioner against the ground and it popped right out.

ok, hopefully it goes back in easy which i'm assuming it does since no one's mentioned having any trouble with it.

and, rex, where are you that it's snowing? we had 90* today. but the highs are going down to the 70's for this weekend. burrrrrrrr.

thanks to all for this write up--it's really helping me.

 

[1166]

Personally, I wouldn't even consider putting silicone where you have the pick. I would use a little on the o-ring that seals the removable part to the body.

 

[kredden]

So I double checked and I didn't have any o-ring around the lip of the pressed out part and there wasn't one still in the body. Looking at mine it doesn't look like there should be one there, perhaps they changed this in later versions (like the removed the o-rings on both sides of the bearing)?

Kevin

 

[ToonRboy]

Funny how the shop manual doesn't speak to removing this bushing or cup. I imagine the main reason is to facilitate removal of gasket 0-ring 18A. 'Bet superloaf (me too) wishes he had a press sitting in the garage!

Jason's idea (if done neatly) would probably extend the life-span of a given rebuild, since (obviously) this is where they tend to leak. As far as the O-ring 20A under the bushing/cup, one could probably just use some silicon on that lip (without an o-ring) and press it home & forget about it.

I hope that everyone can see how much more beefier the springs are in this unit as compared to the mechanical one and that when re-installing (properly), there should be no way that your belt will slip.

Thanks to everyone for chiming-in on this thread esp. to Graham D. and 1166 (and Jason) for their expertise and for keeping on topic.

 

[alfaromeo1green]

I may get flak for turning this thread in another direction, but can't find much debate on this topic on the BB: I currently have a new-style mechanical tensioner on my 2.5, which was put in by the P.O. No problems with this unit so far, and though I don't have much experience with this T-belt on this engine, I have done hundreds of T-belt changes on other makes/models. They have ALL had mechanical tensioners, and I don't see why this one should suck and get such a bad rap. Clearly, if one fails its enough to scar that owner forever, but why is this engine so different? OK, it's aluminium. So is a ton of other engines. Its a V6. Big deal. why should that matter? Is it badly designed? I am almost certainly going to put in a new mechanical unit when I do my T-belt soon. Converting back to the hydro unit seems insane. Also, why should this tensioner cost almost $200?! What the F?! This is not intended to restart the debate from scratch, but I got freaked out by some comments I had heard, and obviously some hardcore V6 people here are happy to rebuild the older hydro tensioner.

Thanks, and flame away.

 

[Alfissimo Int.]

which wurth silicone is best to use? and is there a generic equivalent like permatex which is easier to find? just want to get the right one so it won't seep out in the oil or clump up somewhere in the engine and there seem to be literally hundreds of different sealants/sealers/silicones/etc.

also, be careful separating the pieces pictured above. i tried the C-clamp with a socket and ended up bending the groove where the rubber boot attaches. luckily i have another detensioner and on the second i put the wide flat part of the C clamp (the solid part which does not rotate as you crank) where the socket would go with NO socket and tightened the clamp as tight as i could which is NOT enough to separate. i then slightly wacked the clamp (still tightened) and tensioner against the ground and it popped right out.

ok, hopefully it goes back in easy which i'm assuming it does since no one's mentioned having any trouble with it.

and, rex, where are you that it's snowing? we had 90* today. but the highs are going down to the 70's for this weekend. burrrrrrrr.

thanks to all for this write up--it's really helping me.

You can use permatex (color: Blue) or any oil resistant non hardening sealant. No leaks at all. I can go 30-40K miles without a leak.

To remove old seal I would suggest investing in some brass seal pullers, so you do not score the inner walls where the seal fits or the seal incase you need to remove the good one for any reason. Also comes in handy to install some of the o-rings over the stud. I do not like running the o-rings over the threaded end. So I use some tape over that and carefully slide, and lift the o-ring over that area onto the slotted parts of the stud. I have even used some sealant in those grooves as well as they o-rings are loose too. Also be cautious when placing body over stud. Lubricate the seals with your own made made lubricant so it slides over without too much friction on o-rings. Make sure inner part of body is clean clean clean, any small amount of anything could nick the o-ring.

Hope that helps and hope you get no leaks until next timing belt change.

I hope I did not leave anything out, if I did I will comeback and edit.

Jason

 

[Alfissimo Int.]

I may get flak for turning this thread in another direction, but can't find much debate on this topic on the BB: I currently have a new-style mechanical tensioner on my 2.5, which was put in by the P.O. No problems with this unit so far, and though I don't have much experience with this T-belt on this engine, I have done hundreds of T-belt changes on other makes/models. They have ALL had mechanical tensioners, and I don't see why this one should suck and get such a bad rap. Clearly, if one fails its enough to scar that owner forever, but why is this engine so different? OK, it's aluminium. So is a ton of other engines. Its a V6. Big deal. why should that matter? Is it badly designed? I am almost certainly going to put in a new mechanical unit when I do my T-belt soon. Converting back to the hydro unit seems insane. Also, why should this tensioner cost almost $200?! What the F?! This is not intended to restart the debate from scratch, but I got freaked out by some comments I had heard, and obviously some hardcore V6 people here are happy to rebuild the older hydro tensioner.

Thanks, and flame away.

Not flaming at all here, but more just going to explain why.
The mechanical has a bad rap due to the fact that they are so fragile and can throw timing if internal or external spring breaks. It can break for several reasons, one being not installed correctly, second is the way the spring is locked into the tensioner housing which IMO promotes breakage if too much tension is on it.
The problem is this is an interference engine. You throw timing there is a great possibility to bend valves.
It is not bad tensioner overall. When working properly it works fine. Little flimsy IMO. I have seen too many fail.
You cannot ever let the car roll backwards, thus on start up throw timing and possibly bend valves. I have had tensioners go bad and not bend valves.

Why go back? IMO the hyd. de-tensioner is IMO a great de-tesnioner. Sure it has had a bad rap too. But That is in the past, if you know how to rebuild them correctly (some tips shown above) it is problem free.
Converting back is a piece of cake. Remove studs and replace with hyrd. Of course you need all the parts.
You can also use it as a fixed tensioner with some modifications.
Some say these 2 ways are the best. I prefer the original set up as the fixed has to be tensioner every 15K miles. I rather just install and not worry about it.
With the hydr. you can roll the car backwards without worry of skipping timing. The unit is very strong and uses several springs to keep tension, strong springs. Not weak ones like the mechanical. The bearing is readily available for replacement and so are the o-ring kits. Bearing and kit cost as much as a new tensioner but you may not need to change bearing every timing change, in-fact the bearing if in a fair climate can last for years, so all you need is the kit which is around $50 as opposed to a mechanical tensioner every belt change at $129 and going up, plus belt.

So IMO it is less expensive to maintain, rebuilding is super easy, hydr. or fixed are much better designed and much beefier than mechanical, you really cannot mess up the install or belt tension at all. That procedure is easy as well. Mechanical is easy too but more caution is needed to make sure it is set right and nothing is forced.

The hydr. tensioner is N/A so you need to find a used one to rebuild which is not that hard. Probably find a good one with all the parts for $50-80.

I would not freak out over the mechanical but if you don't do it yourself make sure they mechanic knows what he is doing, he must be alfa experienced IMO.

I myself do not trust them that much but if I had to use one I would and I have for 15 years. I just happen to have a brand new unit on the shelf and decided to go for it. Took me about an hour to revert back. Works wonderful. No leaking.

If you need an explanation on this de-tensioner works let me know.
Despite what most think I think the thermal part does not affect this motor at all. I have done mechanical tensioners in all weather, engine hot, engine cold without any issues.
The hydr. works slightly different and better IMO...again.

I have never seen bent valves with the hydr. or fixed tensioners, in someways there is really no way it can happen. But the mechanical on the other hand I have seen lots of bent valves, broken tensioners, etc..
I bent valves from a faulty mechanical.

jason

 

[alfaromeo1green]

Alfissimo, thanks for the clear and lucid explaination. That was exactly what I was looking for. I am now curious about the fixed tensioner, as this sounds very simple. I will make a final decision when I get things apart.
Thanks again
Dan

 

[Alfissimo Int.]

Alfissimo, thanks for the clear and lucid explaination. That was exactly what I was looking for. I am now curious about the fixed tensioner, as this sounds very simple. I will make a final decision when I get things apart.
Thanks again
Dan

Anytime. The best fixed tensioner can be made from a hydraulic unit. But you must have the complete unit with bearing regardless of condition.
I have new bearings so no big deal there.

What is crucial is the body and eccentric pulley and arm.

From there you can tap a bolt through the body which hits the arm to keep tension. Simple as that. Adjust every 15K and your good. Never a single skip or engine loss with this set up that I know of.
I may be producing some fixed tensioners in the near future.

Jason