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D!@#%$#@#$$%M starter bolt

9.6K views 38 replies 14 participants last post by  john.harrill  
#1 ·
I have searched all the threads and have not found a solution so I am asking the Alfa Guru's for help . I am removing transmission to replace the clutch
I have all bolts out except the top starter bolt the head of the bolt is at the rear of the car with the nut inside the castings of the starter . I can get to the bolt head but the nut is turning the "web" of the solenoid /starter will not allow a socket with extensions to the front of engine or flat wrench on the nut. I am at wits end on this HELP HELP !! bad weather is coming and I work in the driveway :eek:
 
#2 ·
Head down to the local tool store and purchase a set of obstruction wrenches. They are box end and are curved. My dad always called them starter wrenches when I was growing up. Never knew why until I needed them. Thought of that and they work perfectly, they just curve around the starter and it is the way to go. Good luck.
 
#3 ·
1/4" drive vs 3/8" drive will get you past the solinoid with ease if the wires aren't in the road. (in which case, move them :))
Barring that, you might get away with using a 90 degree screwdriver as a lever between the nut and the casting web to hold it snug enough to work at the bolt.
 
#9 ·
Once I take out the oil pressure sending unit, I seem to be able to get an open/boxed end wrench in there onto the nut. I then turn it until it encounters the starter or bellhousing itself and stops. I then put the socket to the head on the rear end and then loosen it ...the trick is taking out the sending unit which allows a little bit more room for these ham-fisted hands of mine....
 
#10 ·
You have had two good suggestions...curved starter spanners and a locking screwdriver.... here's a third which I have used in similar circumstances. Grind away a portion of a ring spanner so that you can get 3/4 of a "bite" on the nut. Best of luck.
 
#11 ·
Top bolts/Shoulder Bolts Which Way Which?

Now I'm confused...again! I thought the top bolt was a regular bolt, the center bolt was the "shoulder bolt", etc. But I am confused by which way is "front" on the shoulder bolt...I always thought the "front" was from the front of the car. The IAP illustration points to the center hole (correct), but seems to indicate the shoulder bolt goes in from what I would call the "back", or transmission side, with the nut on the front...I don't know if that is possible: I think the bell housing would prevent getting the bolt in that way...so which way is "up" on this? Inserting the shoulder bolt (and the others) from the front of the car towards the rear...or vice versa?
Thanks!
 
#13 ·
thanks for the good ideas
the 1/4 drive was tried but the nearness of the casting shoulder kept the socket from seating well enough with out rounding have removed most of tubing around intake to try and get big hands under there
will be grinding done a 13 mm wrench when rain stops to see if I can wedge it down enough or may try the BHSD ( big honkin' screwdrive)r wedged between the nut and the block .
had every thing else out and or undone in a morning but have been D!@#$king with this top bolt (not shoulder) for a week . have determined that it was installed by an Italian oompaloompa with 18 inch fingers with five knuckles in each one AND a magic wrench :p
sigh
but with day temps her in 70/80's I must get back on the road
thanks guys will update in two days when the monsoon ceases
 
#14 ·
The center bolt, or shouldered bolt, is installed from the front as pictured above. In other words, the head of the bolt is toward the front of the car and the threads are toward the rear.

The top and bottom bolts are indeed regular bolts. However, because their length makes it physically impossible to install them from the front, these two bolts are installed from the rear (head toward the rear of the car, threads toward the front).
 
#17 ·
Hah!.... I think I see one of the bargain Harbor Freight transmission jacks. These things are great; I don't have to lay under the car with the transmission on my chest then grunt to hold the thing into place with one knee while trying to get the first bolt into place. I do, however, still belong to the "Proud Scraped Knuckles Club".

Regarding the infamous shoulder bolt, if you clean the threads on it and the nut, you can insert the bolt from the rear and turn these by hand until slightly tight. And, if you are lucky, the nut can then be held from turning by an open end wrench and the bolt can be turned for final tightening (Be sure to have the other bolts in place before doing this). Finally, don't forget to install the sheet metal shim between the starter and bell housing (ask me how I know).
 
#18 ·
further potential po curse or not...thanks to papajam and others!
With my own starter out (awaiting replacement of chowdered ring gear), I find that in my '74 Spider that there is room to insert the top and bottom bolts either way, but the shoulder bolt will only go in from front to back (engine side to transmission).

Question...besides the bolts and nuts, should there be any washers/lock washers...and where? Thanks!
 
#19 ·
If the bolt doesn't have a 'washer' built in then a washer under the head of the bolt and between the lock washer & item being secured (prevents the lock washer from digging in to the item).

Also there is a metal shim sort of piece to sandwhich in there, too.

Image
 
#20 ·
Beyond Nuts and Bolts!

Eric!
Thanks for the diagram and info on "finishing" my starter bolts.
I just knew they shouldn't go nekked, but I didn't want my starter overdressed, either. I really appreciate all the help you and other alfabb stalwarts have provided over time. Brings to mind my great Alfa conundrum...is it the cars that bring the best out in the Alfisti...or the other way around? In any case, thanks to all...
 
#21 ·
Success !!

The bolt is out and the transmission has been muscled from its mount and is soaking in degreaser I am searching for a local shop to re surface flywheel but as been hard to find here in the big city of Mineola

the flywheel and clutch area were dry just lots of dust
friction disc worn just to the rivets but no damage to metal surfaces

the bell housing has a lot of oil in th bottom but I think it came from blow back from the huge engine leak fixed in spring ( had a 1/4 gap in the cam cover gasket losing about a quart a week ) working its way around the inspection cover
will be ordering both transmission shift lever seals

I put on a new Slave Cylinder after the leak repair and its boot is already torn
does any one know where a replacement can be bought without buying the whole unit
wish me luck
hopefully will be going back in this weekend if the weather holds
 
#22 ·
Make sure the machine shop understands the pecularities of the Alfa flywheel. If only the friction surface is machined the clutch may slip once assembled.

The pressure plate bolts onto the raised lip. Both surfaces should be equally machined to maintain the correct depth of the step. (dimension 'B')

See: Clutch Slipping

Image
 
#24 ·
transmission stabbed went in first shot and mostly bolted up with a few of the harder bolts left shoulder bolt on starter in the right position . transmission boots on order
found old boot for slave cylinder .. so slowly reversing the removal
will prob fill with oil next week
thoughts : spirex or redline or is there something at the local auto shop I can by and not have it shipped in from afar .
 
#26 · (Edited)
engine started first shot .. after all I had undone getting to the bolt I was concerned

new boots and console re - installed ( had to "modify" the hard rubber shell between the inner boot and the metal shroud the front of it was well busted and hitting the gear shift lever looked like it had been for a while ) ) any way all console back in and no fouling of shifter on console with new trans mount
replaced clutch pivot with new form emmas ( sp) it was EXTREMELY tight going back in but all hooked back up now clutch pedal still about one inch under brake pedal
ran out of daylight before checking length of master cylinder actuation rod once checked will bleed the clutch tonight and then fill tranny with new spirax . then comes the test drive cross fingers