[alfaparticle]

I suspect both from your experience and the above circuits that the 123 is not a replacement for the 111 and someone made a mistake when that was published.
I only ever got good used Bosch modules to work properly but I never tried the BERU. I now longer own a V6 Alfa so I will not be doing any more experiments.

 

[kuni123456]

I appreciate your help and will see if the four used modules I ordered from three different sources fix my problem. I have one used Bosch 0 227 100 111 that does not work in either Milano. I call Larry Dickman at Alfa Parts Exchange and he calls me the Milano guy and hope that he stays in business for a long time.

 

[Gabor K.]

OK, it seems we have been looking at the wrong place! Looking for inductive trigger replacement, while actually the need was for a hall trigger replacement. I have a distributor for 3L 75, which I opened up and it has the drum with 6 slots arrangement for hall trigger. So this distributor which then possibly have also been used on late GTV6 s, has the Bosch number of 0 237 322 001. So the correct ignition module for this is 0227 921 036. The one to look for, according to Bosch catalog. Hopefully better luck with this one!

Add to cart
https://www.epartsland.com/products/alfa-romeo-75-milano-3-0-ignition-spark-box-0227921036

 

[kuni123456]

I received two used Bosch 0 227 100 111 ignition modules from Germany and both modules work. I also received another used Bosch 0 227 100 111 module that does not work. I have not received a coil/module from Israel and will see if it works. I currently have one spare module and coil and two broken modules with a new Bosch 0 227 100 123. I will probably return the new module to the BMW shop because it can be used in BMW cars. I purchased a used Bosch distributor and should install it and see if it works. This is the problem of owning two old Milanos and I buy parts wherever I can find them. I have many new and used Milano parts in my garage including a used 164L engine. I have given serious thought about buying a new Giulia QV and retire the two Milanos. I have been driving them since 1988 and they are good cars as far as I am concerned. I would caution anyone who thinks that they can buy a used Milano because of the parts situation. I also put heat conducting paste on the bottom of the module.

 

[sportiva]

The ignition module 0 227 100 111 will work as a direct replacement for the alloy cased 0227 100 017.
I have swapped mine over, My car has the two-wire VR inductive pick-up distributor. I used the module from my written off ALFA75 which has the three wire hall effect pick-up. It works perfectly with no over-heated coils, poor performance or misfires as long as you have the whole ignition system correctly wired.
My alloy box 0 227 100 017 amp had these colored wires they connect to the 0 227 100 111 as follows.

black/white.......................................connect to #1
black...............................................................#2
green/black .....................................................#4

The 2 wires From the distributor are as follows
green and shield

green...............................................................#5
shield...............................................................#3
#6 and 7 are not used
You can use a BOSCH 0 227 100 111 a Tridon TIM 017, Fuelmiser CM413 or a BERU ZM 001 as a direct replacement for the 0 227 100 017 alloy box.
You will need a Bosch EV1 7 pin connector. No other parts need to be replaced or modified.

 

[sportiva]

alfaparticle

Could it be that the sine wave pulse generated by the earlier inductive pick-up is still read by the ignition module because it only receives a signal once every engine revolution?
So be it a sine wave pulse from the two-wire inductive pick-up distributor or a square wave pulse from the three wire hall effect system the ignition module reads the pulse because they pulse at the same rate.

Cheers Sportiva

 

[alfaparticle]

Have you seen a sine wave from the VR sensor? I have not had the exact one that is used on the early GTV6 on the bench but I have had other VR sensors and they made short duration voltage spikes.
It is a mystery to me how you have got yours to work.

 

[sportiva]

It doesn't just work for me it is a very common swap. there are more inductive pick-up GTV6's around the world than the hall effect models. From 1983 American GTV6'S used a hall effect distributor the rest of the world kept the inductive pick-up until 1986.

 

[alfaparticle]

Maybe that is why it only works outside of the US :wink2:

 

[kuni123456]

I just received a Bosch coil and ignition module Bosch 0 227 100 111 from Israel. I installed it in the car and it started and ran great. I now have two extra Bosch coils and two extra Bosch 0 227 100 111 modules. I also have an extra Bosch distributor. The problem of buying used electrical parts can be a problem if they do not work and that is why I purchase used parts on eBay. I can always return the part and get a refund but, I usually have to pay for shipping.

 

[alfaparticle]

That should be a lifetime supply of critical ignition parts.

 

[kuni123456]

I have purchased many Milano parts because I knew years ago that you needed them in order to drive the cars. I buy new parts as much as possible and buy used parts from Alfa Parts Exchange, ABB, eBay and other sources. I still want to buy a new Giulia QV because I can buy new parts from Alfa and the car comes with a warranty.

 

[kuni123456]

I just received one more ignition module attached to a Bosch coil. I was able to start the Milano with the latest module and coil. I now have three modules and three Bosch coils. I had only one working module two weeks ago and now have three spare modules and coils. I thank Larry at Alfa Parts Exchange and eBay for finding another three modules. This is a good example about finding parts a 30 year old Milano.

 

[Graham Hilder]

Hello from NZ. New to this discussion and glad to have found it.
I'm interested in the -011 module.
I've got a 1750 GTV with std ignition that I'd like to convert to Bosch electronic, with electronic trigger, dwell-extension module and its special coil.
Being in NZ, I drive several Alfasud boxer cars and have a lot of spares from old dismantled cars. These include Sud reluctor dizzies, and their associated -011 modules and high-current low-inductance coils.I'd like to make use of this stuff if I can. The Sud dizzie won't fit in the Nord engine (and doesn't have enough advance anyway). so I need to retain the GTV -045 dizzie. I plan to convert this to Pertronix Hall trigger, and use the Hall signal to drive a smart Bosch ign module and its coil.
Now, I know my -011 modules do work with reluctor input, as they do in every Alfasud system, and now I'm investigating whether it will work with my proposed GTV Hall input.
The story is very confusing. In the 3rd post of this thread, Ed (Alfaparticle) says " Bosch 0 227 100 111 works for '84 and later GTV6's - the ones with Hall pickups, as well as all Milanos...".
This indicates that the -011 module is for Hall input. And yet, we also know it works with reluctor input, as shown by the widespread Alfasud application, and also by Sportiva's posting above about using the -011: "My car has the two-wire VR inductive pick-up distributor. I used the module from my written off ALFA75 which has the three wire hall effect pick-up".

So, am I correct, in understanding that my ex-Alfasud reluctor -011 module should work with my proposed GTV Hall input?

And will it still have dwell extension from that Hall signal?
Ed, in your first post above you report your test confirmed it does have dwell extension, but was this with a Hall input, i.e. one wire plus shield or earth?
Was the trigger connected to module pin 5 (signal) and 3 (shield), as in Sportiva's installation above?
I'm wondering about this because in the Sud application, the input is an un-earthed pair (plus a shield), and the reluctor signal leads connect to pins 5 and 6 of the -011 (and shield to pin 3).
With a Hall trigger of course we only have one signal lead and module pin 6 is left un-connected.
I'm wondering if the module truly can be fully functional (with dwell-extension working), whether pin 6 is un-connected (for 1-wire-plus-earth Hall situation) or whether pin 6 is connected (for 2-wire-plus-earth reluctor situation). If it can do both jobs, that's a pretty smart module! And if it can, my GTV problem is easily solved, using spares from the parts-bin!

Thanks for any info on these queries,
Graham H, NZ (Alfasud, GTV, 156)
.

 

[alfaparticle]

My experience is with driving 6/7 pin Bosch modules from square wave inputs as provided by Hall sensors and Megasquirt controllers. Bosch made ignition modules for VR sensors and they are a different shape and have different pin out. The 4 pin GM HEI modules work well with VR sensors and are widely available.

 

[Graham Hilder]

Thanks Ed - but I'm still not clear. In your first post you describe testing a -111 module. And just above here, Post 35, you note your experience has been driving Bosch modules made for Hall-type sq wave inputs.So, could you confirm, then, that this previous -111 test would indeed have been done with a Hall-type sq wave input? This is important for me to understand, as this is what I'd like to use for my GTV conversion project.
The answer about whether the -111 is for Hall or not is not obvious, as I think your experience will suggest it is, yet we know for certain it's used with VR input.in Alfasud and Alfa 33 and early 75 factory-original applications.
Thanks again,
Graham H, NZ
P.S. I do want to use a Hall conversion on my GTV dizzie, as I haven't found a VR dizzie with enough advance for a 1750. If I could, I'd just use a complete Alfasud -111 system in the GTV.

 

[alfaparticle]

0 227 100 111 requires a square wave input which could be from a Hall sensor or a computer. It was fitted to GTV6 and Milano models with Hall sensors. IMO it will not work correctly with a VR signal. If it is used with a computer then it must be one that does not control dwell and spark times.

 

[kuni123456]

I would put a V6 ignition system on your car and use a different system. I agree that the V6 system does not have enough advance for a 1750.

 

[Graham Hilder]

In reply to Ed - well it's all very curious. I know for sure that the 0-227-100-111 module is original equipment for post-1980 Alfa boxers (Sud and 33) and early 75s, along with the associated VR dizzy and special Bosch coil. There are thousands of these cars running round with this standard setup. (I've got three of 'em myself.) The reluctor signal is connected to the module by a balanced pair with shield. There's no computer involved, just dizzy, module and coil. But if -111 works with an unbalanced Hall Effect input too, then that's exactly what I can use in the GTV with its Pertronix points-replacement. All very odd, isn't it? Interesting discussion! Thanks again, Graham H

 

[Graham Hilder]

In reply to Kuni - thanks for the idea. But I don't know the V6 ignition system; what does it use please? Many thanks, Graham H