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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Hi 2000 Touring sp

Below, as promised, the response from the author, Vito Witting da Prato....

This fallen leaf refers to a prototype which was built in Udine by Lodovico
Chizzola. He coined the TV (for Tubolare Vico, his nickname from Lodovico)
in place of TZ for Tubolare Zagato. Then, since it was built half way
towards the TZ2, with a new Fiberglas body and a shorter chassis, he called
this TV 1 1/2, which added a little humor to his enterprise.
I am delighted that this work provides some enjoyment to other enthusiasts,
having had the experience of living so close to these wonderful Alfas.

Richard
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Hello to you all
A wish to you all and you family, that the new year will be jolly and prosperous.

My work is developing. And I have for now materiel pictures and information on all chassis numbers, except the following 43numbers.
I have marked these numbers without race history. It does only mean that I have not been able till find any documentation for participating In competition.
In that connection I do have e great wish for help.
If anybody have any knowledge and documentation, that any of these chassis numbers has been participated in a race. In the period November 1963 to 1973. I will be most pleased.
At this moment I an searching information on chassis numbers on the following drivers.
Helmut Wrobel Austria, he was active in competition I Germany- Austria - Switzerland and probably I Italy.
Lucian Bianchi participating with #8 '65 in Rallye Dos Cataluñas
Fritz Baumann and Freddy Karrer #16 participating in Maraton on NĂĽrburgring.
Amphicar - S.Barraco #156 1970 Taga Florio.
Silvestre Semilia #154 Coppa de Ene 1970.
Above i am missing the chassis numbers.
And a wish for a confirmation that I am on the right track.
Pasquale De Francisci - Settimio Balistreri #154 in Taga Florio Can anybody confirm that it was in chassis number 750012.That they started.


Switzerland

Chassis number: 750019 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano, Switzerland
Chassis number: 750023 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano, Switzerland
Chassis number: 750026 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano, Switzerland
Chassis number: 750032 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano, Switzerland
Chassis number: 750035 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano, Switzerland
Chassis number: 750044 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano Switzerland
Chassis number: 750053 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano Switzerland
Chassis number: 750088 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Lugano
Germany
Chassis number: 750013 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo Frankfurt Germany
Chassis number: 750050 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Frankfurt Germany
Chassis number: 750089 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Frankfurt Germany
Chassis number: 750093 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Frankfurt Germany
England
Chassis number: 750063 first ejer: Michael Parkes Warwickshire England
Chassis number: 750082 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo UK, London England
France
Chassis number: 750042 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750046 first owner: Monsieur Gaspin France
Chassis number: 750047 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750049 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750083 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750086 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750094 first owner: delivered to Alfa RomeoParis France
Chassis number: 750096 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number:750098 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750099 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France
Chassis number: 750100 first owner: delivered to Alfa Romeo, Paris France

USA

Chassis number: 750037 first owner: Henry Wessells Philadelphia USA
Chassis number: 750060 first owner: John Ebell San Francisco USA
Italy
Chassis number: 750027 first owner: Gennaro Frola Bari License plate BA 133774 Italy
Chassis number: 750040 first owner: Cesare Marini Cagliari Italy
Chassis number: 750057 first owner: Otello Pampana 1964, Pisa, License plate: PI 71101 Italy
Chassis number: 750058 first owner: Nino Todaro, Palermo Italy
Chassis number: 750065 first owner: Lino Pasetto Verona Italy
Chassis number: 750068 first owner: Franco Cellone Turin Italy
Chassis number: 750074 first owner: Calogero Adaino Palermo Italy
Chassis number: 750090 first owner: Lino Paseto Verona Italy
Chassis number: 750091 first owner: Giovanni Bellicchi Milan Italy
Chassis number: 750092 first owner: Olindo Suraci Milan Italy
Chassis number: 750095 first owner: Gianna Maria Scanza Chiavari Italy
Chassis-Number 750101 Bertone Canguro
Chassis Number: 750104 Test car husAutodelta, first fiberglass. Fate unknown
Chassis-Number :750114 TZ2 Pininfarina
Chassis Number: 750115 Produced for the Alfa Romeo Museum
Holland

Chassis number: 750066 first owner: (delivered to Alfa Romeo, The Hague; exhibited at the RAI Motorshow, Amsterdam Holland

43 out of 117 chassis numbers without race history. In addition, there were a few chassis numbers that were not used.
 
Helmut Wrobel, Muenchen (D): 750013
Lucian Bianchi participating with #8 '65 in Rallye Dos Cataluñas: 750036
Fritz Baumann and Freddy Karrer #16 participating in Maraton on NĂĽrburgring: 750020 (most likely)
Amphicar - S.Barraco #156 1970 Taga Florio: 750054
Silvestre Semilia #154 Coppa de Ene 1970: Coppa CittĂ  di Enna #54 750108
Pasquale De Francisci - Settimio Balistreri #154 in Taga Florio Can anybody confirm that it was in chassis number 750012.That they started: Settiminio Balistreri 750012
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Happy new year Martin.
Thank you very much, it’s a really pleasure to relay on a really knowledge person, like you.
A huge big thank you
By the way do you also know the chassis Chuck Stoddard run in the American series, not Sebring 1964
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Thank you again Martin.
I wish that I did know a way to show, have great Fuld I am, for the great help and you help I done without any hesitations . THANK YOU
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Hello to you all.
Things is developerne perfekt, al most ready to the corrector.
I do still have problems with finding info’s on the activity in Great Britain and in USA, and the 5 Belgium drivers is also a problem, but I do probably have to live with that, I think.
There is still a few missing chassis numbers, and once again I probably have to really on the help from Martin, if he still is interesting to support
Missing chassis number:
04.06 1966 #5 Ralley National des Roses. Driver Montane-Bianco
1967 #37 NĂĽrburgring 500 Km Driver Manfred Hartung - Heinz Gilges
1966 #113 Innsbruck - GroĂźe pries von Tirol Driver Robert Eberhart
1968 #125 pichet-renouil bachellerie
Clastres 1968 #6. A.G.A.C.I. INTER RALLY ° 6 af Jean-Delahaye
Tanks for all and any help.
All the best
Bjarke
alfaarkiv@gmail.com
 
Hi

I just feel unfortable that this thread has nothing to do with its origins....

If the desire is understanding and investigating individual chassis numbers I would suggest a new thread.....

Just my thinking.....

Richard
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
richard:
It has a lot to do with its origin, which you contributed information on.
The info on the heritage tree, is just continued, with a search for the reasons whey da Prato has split the tree up in to sections one 1-50 and the other from 50 -117.
I could not understand why, and my search has lead to, a development of my primary intention of a anniversary script 60 years of the development of Alfa Romeo Giulia 1600 GTZ, has been extended.
So when it is released in November will contain 4 parts.
Part one on the development
Part two a collection on track results.
Parts tree a complete list of chassis number that has racing history.
Part four a appendix list of additional information on TZ.
You have had information on my intention, and promised to assist with information.
 
1967 #37 NĂĽrburgring 500 Km Driver Manfred Hartung - Heinz Gilges = 750045
1966 #113 Innsbruck - GroĂźe Preis von Tirol Driver Robert Eberhardt = 750013
 
All these books are wonderful, and I guess for lots of you the history of each chassis is super important, but to me what is the most interesting is the engineering, the why?, the gestation of these cars, the how, the who and the what ... I want to see HEAPS of technical drawings from the wonderful drawings offices (before CAD when drawings had soul).

I want to see test mules, I want to see dyno runs, I want to see engines being machined. I want to see engine blocks, etc. being cast. I want to see Fred welding prototype chassis'.

For me the finished product is only interesting in discovering frauds and is boring, and I really don't need to see photo after photo of a particular chassis winning race after race. Much more interested in how it was put together and it's racing developments. Results and chasing particular chassis' are good, but that's only 1/8th of what makes books about particular marque models so captivating

Just my 2 cents
Pete
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Thank you Martin.
I suppose the chassis numbers, is the number they used in all three starts.
The #5 1966 Ralley National des Roses , is difficult, WRC don’t have any information. But the same car, I supose, was running in #111 Course de Corte d'Ampus. 1966.
PSK:
I do have a little in my script. As my has turned up to be at large picture collection.
But I think you will be satisfied when Martins book comes out.
I do have an expectation I will be the “ Bible on Alfa Romeo Type 105.11 Giulia 1600 GTZ”.
Martins knowledge is unbelievable high, and a combination with Patrick Dasse files and access to Alfa Romeo archives. It gives possibilities you expectations can be fulfilled.
Do you have the GTA book the produced.
It should give a book that covers al TZ from birth till to day.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
Hello to you all.
I have for now, finish my script Work on the history TZ1/TZ2, as the materiel is send to corrector reading.’
There will still be possible to ad pictures and so.
Let me point out. This is not the history of all Alfa Romeo Giulia 1600 GTZ. All chassis number is in place.
But I have concentrated my work on chassis numbers that has continued in competition in the period 1973 to 1974. It means that I covers the activity of ca. 70 chassis, there is 44 chassis where I has been unable to find materiel on track or have a participating number on the car.
The script is in 4 parts.
Part 1 will contain information on the development of Alfa Romeo type 105.10 and type 105.11 with its 4 pre-productions prototype chassis numbers 750001-750002( 750025)- 750007-750022 .
Information on the background for establishment of Delta Auto at Feletto Umberto , and its transformation to Autodelta in Milano.
Information on the responsible for the re design of TZ to TZ2.
Part 1 contains 293 pages .
Part 2 is a list of racing activities, based racing sports car information’s on starts of TZ in the periods 1963 and the last registration is Jacques Berger at Zolder 20.04.1974. Untorturable I have been unable to find any materiel on this start.
There are holes as there is activities where in have been without success in my search.’
I have had difficulties to find materiel on participates on the track. In Great Britain.
On the tracks in the Staten I have been unable to find any materiel of he participants.
And in Belgian where they had 2 TZ for 5 drivers is the materiel limited.
Chassis 750036 was imported Alfa Romeo Magelmachers, the Belgian Importer. And it was shared between 4 drivers.
Gustavo Grosselin i do have in 4 starts, in international races, but no registration in lokab Belgien races expect on SPA.
Lucian Bianchi i have registries for on race Spain.
Nicole Sol a women driver, I have found in 5 starts, but no information’s on dates and result.
Jaques Berger should have had more the 20 starts, I have found Infor. on 4 of the.
Chassis 750067 : Maurice Dantinne was active, but did only find materiel on 3 of his start I TZ. After the TZ he turned to Ferrari, and it seems verry well covered with information’s.
If Anybody have information’s in this connection, and are have interesting to share and help. I will be verry pleased.
Part 2 contains 854 pages, and it ends with a picture collection of the most photographed Alfa Romeo at Le Mans. #43 chassis 750112.

Part 3 Contains chassis in number order, and it contains all the chassis numbers. In general the focus is on the ca. 70 chassis that has racing pedigree. The list from Racing cars is on international races.
But in France and Italy, there I a high number of local Hill Climb. Almost every top has its climb.
There is also some holes, and if anybody is willing to help to close the I will appreciate.
Part is huge , I think the largest collection on correct period pictures (1973-1974), that ever has been presented,
It contains 1183 pages, and I have not counted, but estimate between 1800 and 2000 period correct pictures. It ends with a part with the unknown chassis. And it contains 5 items, 2 that is period correct , and 3 in black white pictures, that can be from classics race. I think it’s a fair rate, of uncertainty.

Part 4 Appendix is still under work. It will contain information’s as Homologations papers- copy of Fusi’s production data -Test Drive of TZ- and that type of information’s.

The collections of materiel that forms my script. Will be realised in PDF format on a mail list, in connection with the 60es anniversary of the presentation of the Alfa Romeo Giulia 1600 GTZ in November.
If anybody has questions or missing some information’s or any prepuces, please contact me on mail

alfaarkiv@gmail.com

All the best
Bjarke
 
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