[martinue]

The second no. 3 GTAm is that of Georges Moschous, well known as 1970s AlfettaGT rallydriver. Both GTAms had the same number plate, but the second car had small rear lights. I guess the first one was an ex Grafo car. Moschous was Motor Hellas works driver, after Mavros died and Fotiadis gave up racing in 1971. Fotiadis is told to have destroyed the GTA wreck. Moschous first appeared in 1972 with the second GTAm.

 

[papajam]

It had this unusual type plate on it when for sale:

Unusual indeed! Type plates with IGM, which is the abbreviation for Ispettorato Generale Motorizzazione, were issued to vehicles that were street legal in Italy. It is essentually an Italian Government type approval number that consisted of only FOUR digits. The 'OM' stands for omologazione, or homologation. A vehicles' chassis number was NOT stamped here.
Since the 10551 was an export vehicle, an IGM number was not issued. Hence, there is no IGM number on a 10551 type plate.

Another thought: type plates of this period were not stamped, but printed. In addition, there was no 'period' between the 105 and 51.

 

[South Africa]

Hello Martinue,

Is E43 the registration of the vehicle in Greece? In Greece you can have two cars with the same registration number?

 

[Takis]

Hello fellow members
Zagato Olaf exceptional work on the chassis numbers regarding the GTAm.
I confirm chassis number AR 1531231 is here in Greece and lives in a private collection, I have seen and hear it, wonderful piece of history, actually it is the GTAm that appears on the cover page and the central pages of the book GTA by Maurizio Tabucchi (1st edition).
The sorry wreck in which Yiannis "Mauros" Meimaridis was killed is a GTA 1600 converted to wide body with GTAm mechanicals, his friend and owner of Motor Hellas Lakis Fotiadis put dynamite inside the wreck and totally destroyed the car.
On post 16, if I am correct, Lakis Fotiadis is kneeling distorted after the death of his friend "Mauros", beside a genuine GTAm, the same car appears in period pictures with different livery and it is still in Greece only the body survives in unknown condition, to me at least, sorry but I do not know the chassis number.
Takis.

 

[South Africa]

Hello Takis,

Thank you for clearing that up!

Can you comment on the registration numbers E43 and E44?

 

[Takis]

I have on my hands a greek magazine called 4wheels (4 Troxoi in greek) issue number 2, November 1970, they test inside the magazine an Alfa Romeo 1750 GT Veloce 2serie which carries the plate E 43.
These plates E43 E44 etc were given then to the dealers, back in the '70s, from the Ministry of Transport, so that they could test the cars or could take the cars from customs to their dealers, before they were actually registered, so one could see the same number on different cars or models from the same dealer.
Takis.

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

I have on my hands a greek magazine called 4wheels (4 Troxoi in greek) issue number 2, November 1970, they test inside the magazine an Alfa Romeo 1750 GT Veloce 2serie which carries the plate E 43.
These plates E43 E44 etc were given then to the dealers, back in the '70s, from the Ministry of Transport, so that they could test the cars or could take the cars from customs to their dealers, before they were actually registered, so one could see the same number on different cars or models from the same dealer.
Takis.

Hello Takis,

Thank you for your additions! This thread is getting more and more fun!

Ciao, Olaf

 

[Takis]

Just a thought, for the past 20 years I read and collect almost all the magazines that deal with classic cars, only once a magazine presented a real GTAm, Auto Italia magazine issue 39 November 1999, a white colored GTAm chassis number 1382607 a tipo 105.44 actually.
Why the GTAm does not appear on magazines, is it so rare, all of them are hidden, do they really exist, their owners do not want the cars to be shown, doesn't the classic car world or market know the Alfa Romeo 1750/2000 GTAm?
Can this thread or the fellow members world wide provide information or pictures of the GTAms as they are today?
Just some thoughts, hope they are not misunderstood, they do come from a passionate alfista, especially with one with the GTAm dream in his mind.
Thank you, Takis.

 

[South Africa]

Hello Takis,

Thank you for clearing up the numberplate question.

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Just a thought, for the past 20 years I read and collect almost all the magazines that deal with classic cars, only once a magazine presented a real GTAm, Auto Italia magazine issue 39 November 1999, a white colored GTAm chassis number 1382607 a tipo 105.44 actually.
Why the GTAm does not appear on magazines, is it so rare, all of them are hidden, do they really exist, their owners do not want the cars to be shown, doesn't the classic car world or market know the Alfa Romeo 1750/2000 GTAm?
Can this thread or the fellow members world wide provide information or pictures of the GTAms as they are today?
Just some thoughts, hope they are not misunderstood, they do come from a passionate alfista, especially with one with the GTAm dream in his mind.
Thank you, Takis.

Hello Takis,

The chassis you mentioned is (according to my information) the 1382607 ex Jolly Club GTAm, sold new to Alcides Diniz in Brasil in 1970, accoording to Fred della Noce who owns it now. The block is a monosleeve with Lucas guillotine-type injection.

I share your thoughts, it would be nice to see pictures of the cars as they are today. There was an article in 'Het Klaverblaadje' (the magazine of the Dutch Alfa Romeo Owners Club) a long time ago, on the ex-Hezemans car (according to my info 1530848) that has been with the same owner since 1973. I can't reach that copy right now because it is in storage. Let this be an opportunity to share the information we have on these great cars. It is my intention to do so.

Ciao, Olaf

 

[GTV-GR]

On post 16, if I am correct, Lakis Fotiadis is kneeling distorted after the death of his friend "Mauros", beside a genuine GTAm, the same car appears in period pictures with different livery and it is still in Greece only the body survives in unknown condition, to me at least, sorry but I do not know the chassis number.
Takis.

That car lied on the terace of Moschous for several years rotting , got some inside info this car is actually now being restored, kudos to you guys for knowing such intricate details i was really amazed!

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

That car lied on the terace of Moschous for several years rotting , got some inside info this car is actually now being restored, kudos to you guys for knowing such intricate details i was really amazed!

Hello GTV-GR,

That is good news! Thank you for sharing that. Do you happen to know the chassisnumber or are you able to find out? That would be great!

Ciao, Olaf

 

[GTV-GR]

Tell you what , me and my buddy are thinking of doing a documentary on 105's in Greece and interviewing all the above mentioned guys is in our list , i can get the number

 

[Takis]

Chassis number 1530782 sits at the Alfa Romeo museum.
Takis.

 

[Takis]

Chassis number 1531231 is today in Greece.
Takis.

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

Hello members,

And this is a picture of GTAm 105.44 #1378479 at the 2008 version of the Tour Espana. Picture courtesy of Furiani. This is the 'english/german' version of a Monzeglio GTAm with the typical indicator lights at the front.

Ciao, Olaf

 

[Zagato_Olaf]

And here is the 'Italian' version of a Monzeglio GTAm. This is chassisnumber 105.44 #1357840. Picture courtesy of Ultimatecarpage.com!

Ciao, Olaf

 

[giamba_ps]

Hello friends , .................excuse me but what is an "english version " of a monzeglio gtam......??
a replica ????
Or did it actually go through Renatos hands????
I have never seen a flared non step nose gtv retain it's turn signal lights........

 

[Alleggerita]

FWIW, very commendable effort Olaf and others. At the same time, IMO you want to make sure that replicas are not reified as real cars on this thread. So the chassis # should be accompanied by a source listing and include period hx - that's really the only way to tell a real car, especially, as there is the issue of works cars (most of them) and a few privateer cars, some of them built elsewhere w/ the proper parts available from Autodelta.

Also, there are already a few # that have two cars sporting them ...

With GTAms being allowed to FIA race again in Historic, lots of replicas are being built, some of them very good w/ real parts, others looking a bit dubious. As far as their racing class is concerned, they are GTAms as long as they are built to the original homologated specs and they are allowed to run, as FIA no longer requires a period racing hx. I agree that the German/British one looks a bit questionable ....

 

[martinue]

It seems that the "german/english" GTAm is the real Monzeglio one. It was raced in that Euro1750 configuration in the early 1970s and has papers. Btw it was first purchased by a portuguese (Cruz) and restored and maintained by a german (Furiani), raced by the portuguese, later sold via a belgian (MRoks) to an Englishman (Fitzsimons), who let the german codrive and do the work on it.