I think your car is trying to tell you it does not like rush-hour traffic. I suggest you keep the car and get a closer job such that you can bike to work and use the alfa for weekend pleasure runs, or to take long picknik lucnches with a pretty girl.

Gotta get a new perspective, the alfa has been trying to tell you for years now.

 

If you can sell you're a better man than I am.

I set out to sell in response to a financial crunch (which is slowly easing off, I was just trying to help it along).

I was all set to sell (the buyer just had to convince his wife and we had to agree on price) but just couldn't let go.

 

I drive about 18,000 miles a year in rush-hour commuting.

My Toyota costs around $500AUS (minimum really if I pay Toyota) ever service at 10,000 km intervals.

18,000 miles = 28,800 kms thus even my Toyota would cost $1440AUS per year at your mileage ... thus I think your Alfa is doing alright.

In the end cars cost money to use ... and newer sometimes means you cannot service it yourself which equals MORE $$$$$'s

Pete

 

Honolulu Hawk , get rid of it...Alfa Romeo`s are great cars but without any factory service & part support they are just problem child. Last weekend i was going to burn my car if it were allowed in city limits.I love my spider but it has to many problems for a pretty italian lady.

 

I've owned a 1989 Graduate since mid-1998. Here is my chart of costs broken down by year:

1998 $1520 (half year)
1999 1621
2000 1290
2001 2914
2002 634
2003 583
2004 4818

Now these costs do not include my own time spent handling various repairs, but they do include the smallest of items purchased (i.e. valve stem caps, etc.) I drive about 18,000 miles a year in rush-hour commuting.

I received an estimate today for roughly $2,500 of clutch replacement, front suspension, water pump and fuel lines/injector hose.

I love the car, but these numbers (over $7G in 2 years) are making me wonder whether I should just dump it and buy something newer. It's frightening to think I've got $15G in repair expenses for a car worth much much less.

Well, I guess you aren't putting those miles on in Hawaii ! Is this your only car? How much work do you do yourself? First, second or third waterpump? If the engine was rebuilt last year, why do you need a clutch and waterpump and if the engine wasn't rebuilt, what the heck was $4800? How many miles on the car when you bought it and how many miles now? What area of the country are you in? What will it cost to maintain a newer car? A newer car will continue to depreciate. I don't think a well maintained '89 Spider, like yours, is going to lose value.

 

Honolulu Hawk , get rid of it...Alfa Romeo`s are great cars but without any factory service & part support they are just problem child. Last weekend i was going to burn my car if it were allowed in city limits.I love my spider but it has to many problems for a pretty italian lady.

Now to be very opinionated, what the heck, a 1980 along 1981 are the worst years for the spider; and 89 is a better car. It is true, you have to start with the right car, twenty three years ago, a 67 GTjr. was a fifteen year old car!

 

Why would you subject your 16 year old Alfa to such abuse? Get yourself a beater appliance like a Toyota Corolla for the daily grind, and save the Spider for the weekend. You'll appreciate it more, and save money in the long run.

 

I'd say get a "cheapie normal car" for the work commute, and keep the Alfa. I bought an '85 BMW 325e six-and-a-half years ago, for $3000, for exactly that purpose. It now has 203k miles, is easy to work on, and is still running fine. If you buy something like that to commute in, you should be able to easily justify keeping the Italian Lady. Good luck,

David

 

Thanks for all of the advice. Actuyally I do live in Hawaii and I do put about 18,000 miles a year on the car. I work downtown and, like most of the "middle" class, live out on the ewa plain--about 25 miles each direction usually lasting at least an hour.

I can't afford to garage a second vehicle, so its either keep the Alfa or not. I've been driving graduates since 1989, so I don't make this decision lightly.

The $4800 last year consisted of

column switch
water pump
brake rotors, pads MC
clutch mc and slave
clutch plate, disc throwout bearing (purchase only)
motor mounts
center muffler
transmission mount
tie rods
center link
set of new tires

I now need:
water pump!
engine fuel lines
clutch installed
front and rear seals, engine main seal
upper ball joints
sway bar bushings and end links
lower control arm bushinigs
injector hoses

Plus I could use a new top as the rainy season is upon us.

I averaged out the costs on this car and its running app. $2200 per year over last 8 years. I could easily live with that. Its just that the chart is trending upwards at a fairly steep angle.

 

I averaged out the costs on this car and its running app. $2200 per year over last 8 years. I could easily live with that. Its just that the chart is trending upwards at a fairly steep angle.

There are going to be good years and bad years. You have already done the right thing and looked at it from an average per year perspective.

Think about the items that could possibly break in the near future (meaning you haven't recently replaced). When you look at that 'potential' cost list you might see that the next few years could be tolerable and would even out with the last couple bad years.

Remember that you also have consumable things like a set of new tires included in your costs. These are items you are going to have to replace with any car regardless of type simply due to mileage.

---Eric

 

"Can't afford to garage"?

Do you have some legal requirement to keep your beater indoors?

 

HH,
In a previous life, I had a repair shop and took care of many Alfas, along with other European cars. I used to tell folks to expect to spend $1500 a year (1994 dollars) to keep a car on the road. So your costs aren't exorbitant yet, but you have a new problem: high mileage.

The reality of old cars is that the second 100k miles is far more expensive than the first 100k. I’m assuming you are closing in on 200k miles. Your list is primarily for maintenance items. In the coming years you’ll have the additional expense of rebuilding the engine, transmission, and rear end. (assuming they are original) Also, rebuilds never seem to last as long as the originals. (Though I’m guessing your second water pump is due to poor part quality of the first)

If you want to drive a spider, I would sell this one and get another with low miles. I will still cost you a few thousand per year, but your odds of avoiding a $5,000 + year are higher.

 

It seems to me that 5 grand for your 2004 purchases is pretty high, especially with the clutch not even installed (but I don't know what mechanics charge for that stuff)..
I would also assume that you are having the work done at a shop? I would highly advise you to invest $200 in a tool set, get a manual and do the basic stuff your self. It will save you heaps of cash, and be rewarding. That would without a doubt be the best way to go. You will enjoy your car so much more.

But getting a 90s commuter econobox would be good too.

 

Real estate (including garage space) is fairly expensive out here and my community association doesn't allow permanent parking on the streets. I have done a considerable amount of the work myself, but I don't have a lift so the stuff underneath is difficult to deal with. Plus every job seems to need a special tool (i.e. water pump needs that humongous socket for the drive shaft nut + impact wrench) Mechanics rates range between $65-115 per hour out here. I've been looking for over 2 years now for a newer S4, but there hasn't been a single spider of any series advertised in the papers. That leaves me with flying to the mainland and looking and then paying shipping. Every time I see one of the 2 or 3 S4s here, I hand the driver my business card and tell him to call me when he wants to sell. So far no luck. I sold an '86 graduate in 1998 within 2 hours of the ad hitting the paper and it brought in $9,000. People were calling me months later on the ad.

Maybe a companion motorcycle is the answer.

 

I dont' think my '91 Lexus 400LS has cost me near that much in 110 kMi

 

Maybe a companion motorcycle is the answer.

Great idea!!

 

If I were in your shoes, I might consider a Miata. Blasphemous, perhaps, but it would be a lot newer and less troublesome.

 

Time to sell the car. Your expenses are too high. Last year was a killer and this year is the wakeup call.

JMO and I understand if you decide to keep it.

but my advice...take your loss and move on.

Miata sounds about right...

 

I am driving my 1994 Accord everyday about 70 miles and only money i spend was regular maintanence items(engine&trans oil,Brakes,tires).
I dont expect same reliability from my Spider but some expenses should be reasonable.
Every year spending $1000 its too much.There are people can spend $70-$100 for a simple radio blocking plate and there people who can only afford necessary stuff.

 

the tools are easy to get the big bolt is best used from the super cheap sockit sets mine cost like $20 and has all the super large sizes it is also great fo turning over the moter for timing and such. it included the super large rachit for it. the cheap stuff works great for the large stuff there is so much metel in the sockits that size they will not break no mater how bad they are.
and the only car I have ever had water pumps fail on is the 75 they have some defect.
all other cars should last like 1M miles or so if they are failing somone is puting on the belts way too tight.
and I would guess the the berrings in the alt. might be bad also. do you have antifreeze in the coolent?

you cost seem way high to me but I do my own work. the big cost thing for me it stuff I have done to make more power(ported heads hot cams) lightend gears etc and that came in less that that. the only needed cost I have had to do was replace all the moving parts up front and that was like $2000. (ball joints and such) and 3 oil pans ;(
I need to put on a guard.. most small stuff I have needed over the years I have got from APE
and not that much. And normal stuff like pads and stuff but that is cheap and super easy to change.
my biggest costs is gas/insurance.

And on a alfa you have to change you oil your self if you go some where they seem to charge like $3-$10 a quart after the 3.5quarts they give for the price they say. so they might be where a lot of the cost is going?

but just go buy the tools you need even if used just once I bet they will pay for them selfs many times over.

 

I am driving my 1994 Accord everyday about 70 miles and only money i spend was regular maintanence items(engine&trans oil,Brakes,tires).
I dont expect same reliability from my Spider but some expenses should be reasonable.
Every year spending $1000 its too much.There are people can spend $70-$100 for a simple radio blocking plate and there people who can only afford necessary stuff.

and

... your costs seem way high to me but I do my own work.

You guys obviously service your cars yourself ... otherwise you would be way over the $1000 per year.

This guy (HonoluluHawk) sounds like he does not service himself ... so lets give the poor Alfa Spider a break. If these costs include the mechanics time ... then the Alfa has been cheap to run.

It does cost money to run a car guys and these numbers are close to what my completely and utterly reliable Toyota WOULD cost to run if I paid somebody to work on it, and did that mileage.

Solution: Do your own maintenance or take the bus!

EDIT: Okay I have just reread it yet again and I could be wrong. I think maybe he does service this car ... not sure if he meant other issues or not?. Anyway yeah expensive if he is the labour

Pete
ps: My parents used to run a car repair garage ... we had to eat and be clothed, so like I say to my kids when discussing running their own car: guess what?, it costs money!!!!

This car works out at $2058 per year (based on 6.5 years) which is not that bad considering you are really racking up the miles IMO.

BTW: My Toyota needs new front shocks and some suspension bushes (at 100,000 miles) ... will cost over $2000 to do the job MYSELF!!!. I would faint if I got a quote from a Toyota dealership. Thus even these modern cars sting too.

 

Well I was wrong. Prices for maintence are higher on the islands and a high mileage later model Spider is costing more than some of your alternatives; so it comes down to what you want to drive. I agree with those who recommend investing in the tools as you go. The waterpump failing so often also could be due to a too tight fan belt, I'd also worry about the alternator going. One strategy in buying parts from the mainland is to get you suppliers to ship US Priority Mail flat rate boxes, $7.70 for a box that holds a lot. You might want to bail on the current car, save some money, drive a beater (do they exist there?) and then invest in a fully rebuilt Spider from the mainland,A pre '75 should have lower overall maintence costs. I've picked up as a car that has a Wes Ingram SPICA pump rebuilt in '96 that still works very well (the oil stays clean and MPG is good). It would seem that the driving on the island would be perfect for the EV-1, but GM was convinced they had more of a future with Hummer.

 

Honolulu Hawk , get rid of it...Alfa Romeo`s are great cars but without any factory service & part support they are just problem child. Last weekend i was going to burn my car if it were allowed in city limits.I love my spider but it has to many problems for a pretty italian lady.

no offense to you, I'm sure you'll take it that way though, but what you just wrote is complete horse****! I have a 1971 Spider that has been well maintained throughout the years, at VERY LITTLE cost I might add, and it runs like it's brand new. Yes, it's had a new injection pump, 20 YEARS AGO!
All the problems are result of people/mechanics working on the car who shouldn't.
Alfas are good cars and are, in fact, no less reliable than ANY other cars of their era.

 

Please do not take my words as i looked down Alfa Romeos .I grew up with Italian cars in family.My father drove a 1977 Fiat 131 for 8 years without any major problems,`1986 Fiat 131 for 7 years.I like italian approach to automotive engineering but the problem is in the USA all italian parts and US labor is expensive.In my native country,Turkey .I can get first class body+paint job under $1500 .Here they are talking about $3000 or maybe more.
I had an Fiat 124(my first car)i did lots of crazy things with it and i am sure it is running somewhere in Turkey.
Here is my logic
1)Car needs maintanence-I only have money for necessary stuff+oil
2)Car does not start-Because it needs constant attention and $
3)I am mad at my car-Because Alfa Romeo Italia ignoring very important market for them and we have rely on some people make money from enthusiasts.
Probably i am going to sell or donate my car to a charity and wait for the time i can afford working on a spider.Maybe an Abarth(Is there any in the USA?)

 

An older car of any make can quickly rack up repair costs beyond the "blue book" value. I have a few other Italian's that soak up money much faster than my Alfa. With rarity and exclusivity comes inherent cost and sometimes many months or years of waiting for a particular part to surface. NLM and worse, NLA, have become my bane. Alfas on the otherhand have a healthy source of parts available through catalogs and online. You can often save some money by sourcing parts online and providing them to your mechanic.

I never considered the Spider as a collectible as it is quite common relative to my other cars. It just seemed like a fun weekend getaway-mobile. I only drive my '84 Spider (chosen for the bosch reliability) when the weather is really nice. The paint job alone cost me more than the "blue book" value of the car. I stopped adding up the repair/modification receipts when I had reached 3 times the "blue book" value of the car. I should point out that "blue book" value is not relevant to very well maintained models of any collectible car. While some may argue that an '84 spider is not a "collectible", just look at the Barret Jackson auction results if in doubt. Alfas like many collectible's are not usually considered practical cars but they incite an emotional response that is not matched by their counterparts (Spider/Miata, Milano/BMW 325, etc.).

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately, many Alfas, spiders especially, have been allowed to deteriorate significantly. Pity, but it just raises the values of those which are well taken care of as they become increasingly rare. While in San Francisco and Sausalito last summer, I was given numerous offers for my spider, two of which were in the $14k-16k range. It is not for sale. The thousand mile weekends through Northern California with my girlfriend have come to be known as our "smiles per gallon" getaways.

I have quite a few other cars that I have collected as well as a 2002 Mitsubishi Lancer (not EVO) as a daily commuter. Numerous people have posted the advantages of a simple car for the daily grind. Whether or not you keep your car is a deeply personal decision you will have to make. BTW, your mechanic seems to be quite fair in his prices.

Sorry for the short essay. Just my two cents...