essentially the same car minus 2 doors, i've always prefered the gtv6's sportier looks. i've never understood why people prefer the milano.
well, let's have it!
well, let's have it!
redmist
According to my wife the GTV6 is ugly ... and I have to agree that the looks have never done anything for me either. Saying that my wife also thinks the 75 (Milano) is awkward ...
IMO not a good period of Alfa Romeo styling, BUT that v6 engine is bloody awesome and you cannot see your own car while you are driving it ... thus I do hope for a 75 soon, and I have kids.
Honest Pete
IMO not a good period of Alfa Romeo styling, BUT that v6 engine is bloody awesome and you cannot see your own car while you are driving it ... thus I do hope for a 75 soon
, and I have kids.Honest Pete
I'm short.
I have to scoot the seat almost all the way to the front in both the GTV6 and the Milano. In the GTV6, due to the raked windshield, the top of the glass is almost at my forehead. Everytime I try to lower the visor I have to move my head over.
Also, the Milano (from the factory) had an integrated A/C with the rest of the dash, unlike the "add-on" Tropicaire system by Behr. It really looks quite ugly even though the Tropicaire versions worked OK. Not that the Milano one worked much better, IMHO. At least the vents didn't look like an afterthought.
Those long doors do nothing for us short people. No leverage to swing the door open, nor to close them. They were heavy, too.
The GTV6's didn't come with Power Steering either. In addition to being short, I'm no body builder so the steering effort is a big deal for me. I added the Milano PS to my 1984 GTV6. Worked better, but the first three items above kinda did it in for me.
Then there is the hood hinge arrangement. It popped open from the back, which meant that t-belt changes and water pump maintenance had to be done from the either fender, unless you wanted to take the hood/bonnet off altogether and risk not realigning it correctly when you put it back on. Let's face it, even if you did mark the hinge positions, you'll never get it just the way it was. However, if you don't care, this point is moot (I did care!)
My 1984 GTV6 did not have a removeable crossmember under the front seats (similar to the earlier Alfettas). All Milanos have this removeable crossmember. This made removing the driveshaft a greater chore than it has to be. You had to drop the front of the tranny to lower the clutch housing so you could pull the driveshaft far enough to clear said crossmember. Alternately, the stronger folks just twisted the middle donut enough to get the shaft out without tipping the transaxle down. I could never do that on my back.
Looks-wise, the GTV6 is more handsome. But I just couldn't live with one as a daily driver, although I did try.
This is not a slam on the GTV6's per se. A lot of people believe it's the last REAL ALFA EVER MADE. My mom still has her 1984. And she's smaller than I am! However, she keeps it for sentimental reasons and has a mechanic take care of the maintenance for her. She did, however, add PS because she found parallel parking to be troublesome without it.
I have to scoot the seat almost all the way to the front in both the GTV6 and the Milano. In the GTV6, due to the raked windshield, the top of the glass is almost at my forehead. Everytime I try to lower the visor I have to move my head over.
Also, the Milano (from the factory) had an integrated A/C with the rest of the dash, unlike the "add-on" Tropicaire system by Behr. It really looks quite ugly even though the Tropicaire versions worked OK. Not that the Milano one worked much better, IMHO. At least the vents didn't look like an afterthought.
Those long doors do nothing for us short people. No leverage to swing the door open, nor to close them. They were heavy, too.
The GTV6's didn't come with Power Steering either. In addition to being short, I'm no body builder so the steering effort is a big deal for me. I added the Milano PS to my 1984 GTV6. Worked better, but the first three items above kinda did it in for me.
Then there is the hood hinge arrangement. It popped open from the back, which meant that t-belt changes and water pump maintenance had to be done from the either fender, unless you wanted to take the hood/bonnet off altogether and risk not realigning it correctly when you put it back on. Let's face it, even if you did mark the hinge positions, you'll never get it just the way it was. However, if you don't care, this point is moot (I did care!)
My 1984 GTV6 did not have a removeable crossmember under the front seats (similar to the earlier Alfettas). All Milanos have this removeable crossmember. This made removing the driveshaft a greater chore than it has to be. You had to drop the front of the tranny to lower the clutch housing so you could pull the driveshaft far enough to clear said crossmember. Alternately, the stronger folks just twisted the middle donut enough to get the shaft out without tipping the transaxle down. I could never do that on my back.
Looks-wise, the GTV6 is more handsome. But I just couldn't live with one as a daily driver, although I did try.
This is not a slam on the GTV6's per se. A lot of people believe it's the last REAL ALFA EVER MADE. My mom still has her 1984. And she's smaller than I am! However, she keeps it for sentimental reasons and has a mechanic take care of the maintenance for her. She did, however, add PS because she found parallel parking to be troublesome without it.
The GTv6 is much prettier, I agree. The chassis and driveline are almost the same, yes. I prefer the Milano because my experience has been that Milanos are all-round better produced....and I don't just mean "more reliable". The switches and instruments, and frankly the build technology don't date back to the early 1970's, they have better ergonomics, better AC, better clutch, better driving position (I am going to catch hell) and, best of all, you can not only take your girlfriend out, but two of her friends as well. Now THAT was forward thinking in 1986 FIAT land.
I like that my Milano is not covered in rust, the door panels are not peeling off, the dash does not look like it has been horse whipped, the tail lights can be replaced in 10 seconds, not 10 minutes.....I can go on.
--CB
I like that my Milano is not covered in rust, the door panels are not peeling off, the dash does not look like it has been horse whipped, the tail lights can be replaced in 10 seconds, not 10 minutes.....I can go on.
--CB
I agree pretty much with all of what Nizam said, although I don't have the height problem...
If you forget the styling which is pretty personal (I like both of them but in a very different way) and the fact that one is a coupé and the second a saloon (why are we comparing them then? ), the 75/Milano is the ultimate evolution of transaxle Alfas and IMO the only one where Alfa managed to fix most of the really annoying bugs, especially the gearchange. The 3.0s and performance oriented 75s also have a LSD, very handy for hanging the tail out!
I also like the fact that most people think that you're just driving an "old" boxy car while you're having the time of your life. There's a feeling that we (75/Milano owners) are on to somehting that "normal" people just can't comprehend...
If you forget the styling which is pretty personal (I like both of them but in a very different way) and the fact that one is a coupé and the second a saloon (why are we comparing them then?
), the 75/Milano is the ultimate evolution of transaxle Alfas and IMO the only one where Alfa managed to fix most of the really annoying bugs, especially the gearchange. The 3.0s and performance oriented 75s also have a LSD, very handy for hanging the tail out!I also like the fact that most people think that you're just driving an "old" boxy car while you're having the time of your life. There's a feeling that we (75/Milano owners) are on to somehting that "normal" people just can't comprehend...
Posted at the same time as CrowBar, but agree totally with what he said...
In fact, the ultimate Transaxle Alfa is of course the SZ ES30, but then that's in a different price range altogether, if available at all in your country. You also have to be in "show off" mood when you drive it... Would love to have one, nearly bought one a few years back but chickened out at the very last moment.
In fact, the ultimate Transaxle Alfa is of course the SZ ES30, but then that's in a different price range altogether, if available at all in your country. You also have to be in "show off" mood when you drive it... Would love to have one, nearly bought one a few years back but chickened out at the very last moment.
I have logged over 100K in my '86 GTV6 and maybe a couple of hundred in my '88 Verde and they are different. I like my GTV6, I like the leather interior, the styling is much more artistic, I fit in it (I have the other height issue) although I have to sit in what DaveH calls the pimp daddy driving position. But the Verde has it's good points, PS with a quicker ratio, I like the taller first gear, I am putting all my 3.0 stuff into a non-sunroof Verde so I have head room, I could not reach the steering wheel with the seat in a position where my head was not touching the roof, the non-sunroof fits better. The interior is more modern, but maybe not better looking, just more normal.
I own both an 86 GTV6 and an 89 75 TS.Of course I love them both equally !
There is no question that the overall feeling of the 75 is that of a more modern car.The fit and finish are 10 years ahead of the GTV6 and overall the driving experience is "tighter".The 75 is a sports sedan well suited to travelling fast with some passengers and luggage.The GTV6 is much more of a "beast".It talks to me and tells me to push a little harder.Seating position plays a big role in how I feel about these two cars.In the GTV6 I'm down there where the action is. In the 75 the feeling is more of being a driver less part of the machine.I guess to summarize the GTV6 is a wild redhead who leaves no doubt what she needs the 75 needs a little more foreplay but the net result is very similar.
There is no question that the overall feeling of the 75 is that of a more modern car.The fit and finish are 10 years ahead of the GTV6 and overall the driving experience is "tighter".The 75 is a sports sedan well suited to travelling fast with some passengers and luggage.The GTV6 is much more of a "beast".It talks to me and tells me to push a little harder.Seating position plays a big role in how I feel about these two cars.In the GTV6 I'm down there where the action is. In the 75 the feeling is more of being a driver less part of the machine.I guess to summarize the GTV6 is a wild redhead who leaves no doubt what she needs the 75 needs a little more foreplay but the net result is very similar.
I will admit that the 1984 (I think?) introduction of the TropicAire was a vast improvement, if not aesthetically. The GTV6 and its predecessor both suffered from a green-house effect of sorts. So much glass surface area....so much opportunity for sunlight to directly enter the cabin and heat it up unmercifully. Pre-TropicAire cars could barely keep up.
-CB
-CB
I just like the fact that I can blow the doors off some spotty faced 18 year-old in his turbo-charged overblown dumped rice burner & he has no idea what the hell that 4 door was !!
Frankly, most decent rice burners, turbocharged or not should be able to outpace a Verde, the only reason you're blowing their doors off is because they're spotty faced 18 year oldsgenius said:I just like the fact that I can blow the doors off some spotty faced 18 year-old in his turbo-charged overblown dumped rice burner & he has no idea what the hell that 4 door was !!
We have both a 87 Milano and perfect one-owner since new 81 GTV6(29k)
Anyhow they ARE very different cars to drive.
Milano is great for trips, lots of "driver-friendly" items. GTV6 doesn't have as much interior storage space, back seats are tiny. Even though I have a cage in the Milano. Back to the trip aspect. The way the GTV6 came: no radio and we aren't about to install one. Milano's electrical system seems perfect compared to the GTV6 which you can "brown" out. I have yet to figure out the heater/defrost/ac controls in the GTV6 as well. The Milano also has powersteering!
As far as performace, the GTV6 has a TINY first gear. The Milano is much quicker off the line. After 1st gear the cars seem about the same.
But as far as driving for fun goes, GTV6 wins hands down. It's more funto drive, you're more in control, seat position is sporty as is the feel of no power steering.
Anyhow they ARE very different cars to drive.
Milano is great for trips, lots of "driver-friendly" items. GTV6 doesn't have as much interior storage space, back seats are tiny. Even though I have a cage in the Milano
. Back to the trip aspect. The way the GTV6 came: no radio and we aren't about to install one. Milano's electrical system seems perfect compared to the GTV6 which you can "brown" out. I have yet to figure out the heater/defrost/ac controls in the GTV6 as well. The Milano also has powersteering! As far as performace, the GTV6 has a TINY first gear. The Milano is much quicker off the line. After 1st gear the cars seem about the same.
But as far as driving for fun goes, GTV6 wins hands down. It's more funto drive, you're more in control, seat position is sporty as is the feel of no power steering.
...very true...it's always entertaining to watch the face change when "grandpa" (ie: anyone over the age of 30) appears to have a little more than they expect under the bonnet !realdriver said:the only reason you're blowing their doors off is because they're spotty faced 18 year olds
I get ricers trying to drag me from every set of lights, and I usually loosegenius said:I just like the fact that I can blow the doors off some spotty faced 18 year-old in his turbo-charged overblown dumped rice burner & he has no idea what the hell that 4 door was !!
Most of their cars have more power than mine .Not for long.
I guess I also love the fact that I know that I will still own my pasta in 10 years time, long after the rice has gone mouldy....but then that's getting off the topic...
ok- the tale of the tape so far. in the anthracite corner we have the milano:
the milano has power steering (maybe a good thing- this is personal)
better a/c
better clutch (although, most gtv6 drivers have gone through their clutches
at this point and have installed the milano one)
fits smaller and larger people better (must be a first of sorts)
slightly easier to work on (hood hinge and removable crossmember)
more practical as an everyday driver (because of more space?)
dashboard is more modern (this is a matter of personal taste)
quality is head and shoulders above the retro gtv6
better gearing (although i've heard it the other way around sometimes)
better gearchange (same as the gtv6 in 85-86?)
better driving position (is higher better?)
the milano has a limited slip diff
resists rust better
more modern feeling (is this in terms of the ride or way you feel when just
sitting inside?)
reliable electrical system
more of a sleeper (maybe a bad thing for some)
finally, 3.0 means more power!!!
and in metallic chestnut corner, the gtv6:
is she prettier? some say without a doubt.
the gtv6 gives you a better driving experience, more direct
better driving position, lower and more intimate (yes, i did write that in the above section )
can give you a brown out
the car for you if you are partial to redheads (testa rossas)
the last real alfa (is this just bragging rights?, i mean you don't feel this
when you drive, do you?)
do we have a winner yet? any more "rounds" to add to this? the gtv6 is getting slaughtered, maybe i should have posted this in the gtv6 forum.
the milano has power steering (maybe a good thing- this is personal)
better a/c
better clutch (although, most gtv6 drivers have gone through their clutches
at this point and have installed the milano one)
fits smaller and larger people better (must be a first of sorts)
slightly easier to work on (hood hinge and removable crossmember)
more practical as an everyday driver (because of more space?)
dashboard is more modern (this is a matter of personal taste)
quality is head and shoulders above the retro gtv6
better gearing (although i've heard it the other way around sometimes)
better gearchange (same as the gtv6 in 85-86?)
better driving position (is higher better?)
the milano has a limited slip diff
resists rust better
more modern feeling (is this in terms of the ride or way you feel when just
sitting inside?)
reliable electrical system
more of a sleeper (maybe a bad thing for some)
finally, 3.0 means more power!!!
and in metallic chestnut corner, the gtv6:
is she prettier? some say without a doubt.
the gtv6 gives you a better driving experience, more direct
better driving position, lower and more intimate (yes, i did write that in the above section
)can give you a brown out
the car for you if you are partial to redheads (testa rossas)
the last real alfa (is this just bragging rights?, i mean you don't feel this
when you drive, do you?)
do we have a winner yet? any more "rounds" to add to this? the gtv6 is getting slaughtered, maybe i should have posted this in the gtv6 forum.
Not from my perspective.CrowBar said:
My Red GTV6 always gained guy's (put it another way, "Alfisti's") attention.
The Milano/75 appears to appeal to the womenz more (case in point; met my wife at the historics because of the Milano, and Chip could tell you a similar story with respect to AlfaGirl
)Another +1 for the Milano!
p/s the wife wants to add this; "The Milano leaves the impression of responsibility, with the four doors and a trunk. Gives the impression of a reliable fella."
Sorry nizam, if your wife's comment held water, we would all be driving along in minivans! I hate to admit, but the Spider trumps both the 75 and GTV6, but between the two, the GTV6 get's the sex appeal vote!
You're right Sam. We should really get the womenz' input because personally, I do think the GTV6 appeals to males because .... well ... it's sexy/racy lookin.
Well, that depends if you're looking for a fling, or a meaningful relationshipSamW said:
As an only car, the Milano is my hands down favourite. I drove mine from SoCal to the Yukon a couple of times, and just about everywhere else. Can't imagine being female and doing that in a GTV6. Too much attention (yes, there is such a thing ), and just too many compromises technically to be a long distance all weather hauler.I met Nizam in the Alfa corral at Laguna Seca. There were plenty of GTV6 there. When he asked if I wanted to check out his Milano/75, I said sure. Had it been a GTV6 guy, I would have been more wary - thinking he was on the prowl - and probably would have turned him down in favour of far hotter Italian coupes around that weekend if I wanted to play with the coupe boys
. That's the downside of having a sexy car that guys don't always think about. We females see the car, and know he's a playa (or aspiring playa)
. Now if we feel like playing, that's one thing - but we probably don't take you as seriously as the sedan guys, given there are plenty of hot sedans. See, driving a sedan tells us you see beyond the surface, and appreciate the things underneath. We know you take the larger picture into consideration. There are always plenty of coupe guys, but the sedan guys are more rare. Another upside is that you can usually get away with far more when driving the Milano because cops and civilians don't suspect what the car is capable of. They just see this boxy 4 door thing. The GTV6 garners too much attention to be truly naughty as often as you might be in the Milano. I've learned to love my Milano for her subtle taut curves. No, it's not as obvious as the GTV6, but there are some good design points.
If I had to augment the collection, it would be with an ES30 and new Spider V6. If I had to let go of my beloved Milano, I would replace it with a GTA Sportwagon. If I couldn't get a newer Alfa, it would be a hot rodded Giulia Super. The GTV6 isn't even on the radar. Sure it's pretty, but I think many women are too practical to consider it for every day use. In fact the best way to upgrade it for daily use is to add Milano bits to it. Now what does that tell you?
Oh, and I'd rather be dead than be caught driving a minivan!!!!!
whoa-GTV6 just got served!!!
I have never driven a gtv6, only 75 milanos. I dont intend to make any cracks on the GTV6, AlfaGrrl might call me out for being defensive
I dont know why anyone would say that the GTV6 is the last real Alfa. I would say that 75 has that locked up. I have never read that Fiat influenced the design of the 75. In fact I have read that the 75 was the first car that was designed in house by Alfa. I have read that Fiat´s only input on the 75 was to complain after they took over that the 75´s production cost was way too high.
Also the 75 is the final production iteration of Alfa´s decades of engineering evolution. I also dont think that the styling is any great departure from previous saloon´s. It is a very very period shape, but I like that. I also think that it is ageing very gracefully. The interior, IMO, is one of the cleanest of all time (especially with the Recaros on the US verde). Just because it does not look like a 70s holdover doesnt mean that it is a sellout
Also, the people from the US tend not to be familiar with the best looking 75s. Our US versions are molested in the looks dept by the jacked up stock suspension and ugly US bumpers. Clean Euro bumpers without the ugly rubber boots on the sides are the the ones that should be judged.
I know that GTV6 had some of the same suspension and bumper issues in the US, but they didnt transform the appearance as much IMO.
People need to tweak their US Alfas to get the most out of them, GTV6 and 75 alike. If we are comparing a tweaked gtv6 with Euro bumpers, 75 clutch, shift linkage, and power steering added (these are common GTV6 mods), the we should budget a few mods for the 75 too. Euro bumpers, rear lowering springs, and a matching front swaybar uprgade are not out of line as a comparison, I dont think.
With those mods the 75 and GTV6 are both very beautiful cars in the eyes of any Alfisti. (75 would be my preference The 75 in question would be no Italian taxi, it would be a serious performance car clothed in an interesting aesthetic package.
Sorry about the rant
I have never driven a gtv6, only 75 milanos. I dont intend to make any cracks on the GTV6, AlfaGrrl might call me out for being defensive
I dont know why anyone would say that the GTV6 is the last real Alfa. I would say that 75 has that locked up. I have never read that Fiat influenced the design of the 75. In fact I have read that the 75 was the first car that was designed in house by Alfa. I have read that Fiat´s only input on the 75 was to complain after they took over that the 75´s production cost was way too high.
Also the 75 is the final production iteration of Alfa´s decades of engineering evolution. I also dont think that the styling is any great departure from previous saloon´s. It is a very very period shape, but I like that. I also think that it is ageing very gracefully. The interior, IMO, is one of the cleanest of all time (especially with the Recaros on the US verde). Just because it does not look like a 70s holdover doesnt mean that it is a sellout
Also, the people from the US tend not to be familiar with the best looking 75s. Our US versions are molested in the looks dept by the jacked up stock suspension and ugly US bumpers. Clean Euro bumpers without the ugly rubber boots on the sides are the the ones that should be judged.
I know that GTV6 had some of the same suspension and bumper issues in the US, but they didnt transform the appearance as much IMO.
People need to tweak their US Alfas to get the most out of them, GTV6 and 75 alike. If we are comparing a tweaked gtv6 with Euro bumpers, 75 clutch, shift linkage, and power steering added (these are common GTV6 mods), the we should budget a few mods for the 75 too. Euro bumpers, rear lowering springs, and a matching front swaybar uprgade are not out of line as a comparison, I dont think.
With those mods the 75 and GTV6 are both very beautiful cars in the eyes of any Alfisti. (75 would be my preference
The 75 in question would be no Italian taxi, it would be a serious performance car clothed in an interesting aesthetic package.Sorry about the rant
Aspetiamo la curve! (let's wait for the curves) For me this phrase depicts the essence of 75 - the real cheater, boxy unknown vehicle that may not be the winner when comes for light-to-light races, but when it comes for more serious even ad hoc streetracings the silly faces seems firstly to ask what the hell is this? and then they disapear in your rear mirror... In my country, where bmw is so appreciated, beating those 325 nad 328 brings me so much fun ;-)realdriver said:Frankly, most decent rice burners, turbocharged or not should be able to outpace a Verde, the only reason you're blowing their doors off is because they're spotty faced 18 year olds
Of course it's important to have fast-looking car but it's more important simply to have fast car, and that is the difference between GTV6 and 75
Best regards
Tomek
75 3.0 America
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