Awesome!!! Steve I love you

When can I take you out to dinner?

Your write-ups are awesome.

Now to allow the cooling fan circuit to be active when the ignition is off (after-run fan), the two pink wires on the low speed relay need to be connected to the fusebar though a 10amp fuse?


P.S.

what is the part number for the low speed resistor? can i get it at iap/difatta?
is timing belt replacement guide next?

 

Awesome!!! Steve I love you

When can I take you out to dinner?

Your write-ups are awesome.

Now to allow the cooling fan circuit to be active when the ignition is off (after-run fan), the two pink wires on the low speed relay need to be connected to the fusebar though a 10amp fuse?



P.S.

what is the part number for the low speed resistor? can i get it at iap/difatta?
)

Depends on which speed you want to be after-run fan. Only one of relays should be wired to new 7.5/10A fused hot wire. Wires are pink-white ones not just pink and you need to isolate pink-white one going to pin socket 86 of relay you want to after-run. I suggest low speed I1 (I99 24v) so fan runs slower and to a lower temperature.


The new improved low speed fan resistor for the 164 with two speed fan and two contact (3-wire) thermal radiator switch is now 60609114 (started with production of MY1994 chassis 6296308) and now the resistor of choice for all older 164 with old style resistors. See TSB 07.94.02 (kit 589-4444 appears to be no longer available as it was superceded by just 60609114 resistor in June 1997. You can crimp on new female connectors to your old Blue and brown 6 mm wires if ends fried. Canceled TSB said not to solder on terminal ends but use crimped style and cut back wires to good clean wire first.

Difatta carries 60609114 resistor as I am sure does IAP and many others.
There is another one originally called for in the now canceled TSB 07.94.01 numbered 60809136 that will work but newer one has new style wire connector on it.

 

Added some pictures of testing to first post showing three pieces of test equipment -- multimeter, test light, and a Radio Shack voltage tester with go no go lights.

This post is a copy of a rough draft "work in progress" for an article I hope to submit soon to Alfa Owner.

 

This is awesome, will try this weekend... Steve u r gr8 and sooo helpful on this forum.

-Pavan.

 

I double that...

 

Where can I locate relays I1, I68 and resistor O22 and thermal switch L6? I just want to make sure before I blow off anything.

thanks,
-Pavan.

 

Cooling fan relays under black plastic cover farthest from coil, resister inside upper corner of fan shroud under relays and thermal switch in side tank of radiator next to headlight. All components right together. Pull plastic cover between headlight and a/c condenser/radiator to see thermal switch and unbolt coil and relay bracket to get better access to resistor.

 

which one of these two black plastic covers should I have to take off??

 

I corrected my post above. I had a brain fart. Cooling fan relays under cover closer to air cleaner. Fuel pump and motronic computer relay with red stripe under cover closest to coil. SORRY!

 

Ok, I followed your write-up and found nothing wrong with the electrical circuit. the fan runs at high speed and low speed at the places where you mentioned it should. Are there anyother things that I need to check why my engine rises to high temps as soon as I enter city traffic??

-Pavan

 

Today again it went past 213F in city driving. I opened the hood and saw the fan running at high speed, does that mean that the electrical system is working fine and there is problem in the cooling system parts?? If so , what might be the problem, water pump, thermostat, hoses or anything else??

-Pavan.

 

It sounds to me that your low speed fan is not kicking in (although you have done some tests). Do you actually see the low speed fan come on when you idle the car long enough? The low speed fan should keep the operating temperature at around 200F. The high speed fan should rarely come on (in my experience) if the low speed fan function is working. The problem might be a bad fan switch or bad connection around there.

 

Sorry if I'm being redundant as I don’t know if this was stated in another thread. But have you or PO replaced the water pump on this vehicle? It sounds like the water pump is not pushing enough coolant through your system Or possible obstruction?

 

No Idea about that, have to contact him. Anyway how can we identify any obstruction or whether the water pump is not pumping well, any devices to check this??

-Pavan.

 

Verify your gauge reading accurate by using a laser heat gun (Sears sells reasonably priced ones) on thermostat, top radiator hose, radiator side tank near thermal switch.

Do you have good 50/50 mix of coolant?

What is outside temp (weather you are driving in now)?

Does coolant tank boil over? Temp of 212 not excess in city driving with a/c on after an interstate drive it is normal to go to about 212 but if you can't get temp to stay below that you may have a partially opening thermostat or low flowing radiator but if temp OK on highway not sure a problem.

Is this a new to you 164 or has problem just started on a car you have had awhile?

 

The coolant was filled by the mechanic when he did the serpentine idler replacement 2 weekd before. The coolant tank doesn't boil over as far I can see. On interstate it will be always either below 175 or just above 175 and not more than that. But as soon as I enter the city traffic it goes above 212. Its more than 5months since I used a/c for the last time. No matter what the out side temps, it goes to 212 in city traffic. My commute times are mornings b/n 7-8 and evenings b/n 5-6. Actually I came accross this problem from the time I got the car, when I am driving down this car from the PO from San Diego, it did the samething and I called him abt this, he told that its normal going to 212 in city driving.

-Pavan.

 

I also think it is normal if you have proper operating thermostat, thermal switch in radiator as 87C (187F) thermostat is designed to run engine about 210F when thermostat fully open. If both low and high speed thermal switch contacts work at correct temps of 198F and 206F and gauge reads correct I think you are home free.

 

It's my understanding that 212 deg F (100 deg C) is THE optimum temperature for the lowest emissions. So it is not too high, when you install a lower temp fan switch you are effectively raising your cars emissions. A 164 doesn't run at any hotter than any other properly engineered car. I think the only reason we tend to feel that are cars are running hot is because the tight engine bay and the fact that the gauge reads pretty far to the right of the gauge when it is normal. Many American cars are designed to run in the first 1/4 of the gauge to make us feel good and they don't move much no matter what the actual temp is (really, just fancy idiot lights, in effect).
Charles

 

It's my understanding that 212 deg F (100 deg C) is THE optimum temperature for the lowest emissions. So it is not too high, when you install a lower temp fan switch you are effectively raising your cars emissions. A 164 doesn't run at any hotter than any other properly engineered car. I think the only reason we tend to feel that are cars are running hot is because the tight engine bay and the fact that the gauge read pretty far to the right of the gauge when it is normal. Many American cars are designed to run in the first 1/4 of the gauge to make us feel good and they don't move much no matter what the actual temp is (really, just fancy idiot lights, in effect).
Charles

I find this to be a very useful observation. In several american cars I've driven that have a temp gauge, it typically rises to about mid-point and then never moves, which means it is not displaying any variation in engine temperature which I don't think is possible in reality. Because of my personal experience (see posts in Cooling System Questions and Coolant in reservoir tank "boiling") I have seen a very bad scenario where the temp sending unit was reading low (175) at the gauge and the engine was actually up to about 250F due to a defective thermostat. So for this reason alone I want to verify the actual temperature using an external measuring device like a laser thermometer.

 

To much posted here to go back and verify what has been tested. But let's try to double check that low speed fan circuit is working. Open hood and remove plastic cover next to driver's side headlight. Locate thermal switch in radiator and disconnect black and white wire connector. Now with key on take chassis connector with brown wire and black wire you disconnected from black and white wire to radiator switch and jump brown wire to black wire. Does fan come on low speed? If so fine so far if not locate light blue and larger brown wire connector going to low speed resistor in radiator fan shroud behind relays and ignition coil bracket. Disconnect from connector to resistor or resistor if wires connected directly to resistor and with key on and black and brown wires still jumped together jump blue to brown does fan now run on high? If so low speed resistor is bad and that is your problem bad resistor. Leave blue and brown jumped rehook connector to radiator switch and see if car runs cooler in traffic with low speed circuit now a high speed circuit. If not you will need to test thermal switch in radiator to see that low speed side (white and black wires) is working correctly and coming on by 198F. You may have to remove it and cook it in water on kitchen stove using a thermometer and multi meter or try laser temp gun aimed at radiator tank near switch with meter hooked to black and white wires with ohms selected.

 

To much posted here to go back and verify what has been tested. But let's try to double check that low speed fan circuit is working.

I have to ask a question here that is probably not popular, but I would like some input nonetheless. Someone that worked on this car before me must have discovered that the low-speed resistor was bad and rather than replace it, reconfigured the setup to only operate the fan at high-speed. I'm also wondering if this modification was in vogue at some earlier time. From what I can tell, when the car is moving I get enough airflow through the condensor and radiator to control the temp around 175, but at idle rises to 3/4 mark and then the fan kicks on and drops it one mark. I have checked the temps with my meter and I don't believe there are any cooling issues at this point. I may eventually get around to restoring the original circuit, but what I have now doesn't seem to work that badly other than perhaps stressing the fan motor more. Thoughts?

 

It works well to have just high speed fan with both low speed and high speed relays and thermal switch contacts working correctly especially in hot climates. This way you get high speed when a/c runs and when low side of thermal switch comes on. This is handy if you have first have that interstate run and then hit stop and go on a hot day and get that quick temp rise.

It can however, make car run too cool in cold winters but in Florida it makes it run cooler in summer and makes A/C work better too.

Resistor is a high failure item.

 

It can however, make car run too cool in cold winters but in Florida it makes it run cooler in summer and makes A/C work better too.

Good, at least this area seems to be somewhat stable then. The only other possible issues remaining are the water pump and radiator. I believe the water pump itself is relatively new. The radiator may need replacing in the future but so far seems to be doing well enough.

As for the A/C, unfortunately it hasn't been working for years in the sense there is a leak somewhere that the "local" Alfa mechanic was unable to solve. Not only would this problem need to be solved, but the stepper would have to be fixed again too. These things are certainly possible, but I'm still way down at the base of Maslov's pyramid with this car. If I get this far, I'll even hook the heater core back up.

 

Sounds like you had a bad connection to resistor due to corroision so maybe you are now golden. Since you have it working let engine warm up and see if low speed fan comes on at a reseaonable temp near 198-200F.

 

Today I drove to SFO and in the city it went to 212 and by the time I was back home, the gauge is reading around 194 (between 175 and 212), I poped up the hood and saw the radiator fan is not running. Does this mean I have a problem with low speed control??

-Pavan.

 

I thought we had come to terms with you needing to test thermal switch in radiator to see at what temp you get a reading in white wire for low temp contacts?

 

Yeh.. will do that..just giving u update on wht happeded today after the test of low speed resister yesterday.

-Pavan

 

Ok I checked the thermal switch in boiling water and the low speed kicks in at around 193F and the high speed kicks in at around 209F. Anything else I need to check??

-Pavan.

 

I don't know if you have a problem with actual cooling or not. Not sure we ever got an answer about what temp gauge is when low speed fan speed clicks on? Did you ever do that test of letting engine idle until temp comes up enough for fan to come on and then record temp reading on gauge and with laser temp gun to compare?

You may have a radiator that is partally clogged.

I suggest that if temp readings are close to what laser gun reveals you can try to control it better by disconnecting low speed relay and jump blue and brown wires together so high speed fan will run on high when low speed speed clicks on.

Then, if temp in traffic is more to your liking drive it that way. If not and gauge is accurate you may need to look for a cleaner radiator.

If need be. get your radiator flow tested. However, I think since highway temps are good radiator should be OK.

 

Pavan, take a picture of your temp gauge when you think its 212/3 and we can go from there.