[Alfisto Steve]

Beach house? You, uhhhm need any more guests?

Rooms all "sold" out for the May 19-21 Warbirds over the beach event but if you want a real vacation at VB between June and September I can send you link to rental agency.

 

[DanNZ]

Speaking of the dogbone mount, are rubber bushes available? I've got poly bushes in the large and small positions and agree there is a lot of transmitted noise (although less since I changed the serpentine belt pulleys and removed the piece of "shrapnel" that was rubbing on the timing belt!!). I'd really like to change the large poly bush back to rubber .


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[beeton]

Good question. I think measuring them may help as there are probably similar sized bushings used for other applications. As for the poly, look into the hardness of your bushings. If they are an 80, a bit hard. If a 60, not much harder than stock rubber. If they turn out to be 80, you can try ti find softer poly ones if that is easier than finding rubber ones.

 

[Del]

At the time when I bought the poly bushing for the LS, I had to reduce the effective stiffness of the bushing by drilling holes in it until it seemed to work ok. Not satisfied but haven't gotten around to trying to get an OEM rubber bushing, but will if available.

Transmitted vibration and noise is a tricky thing to sort out, depending on load paths, frequencies both induced and fundamental resonant, and as you say, bushing stiffness/hardness and degree of inherent material hysteresis.

For all it's assumed drawbacks, rubber is a decent material meeting the requirements.

 

[beeton]

As for my engine mount rebuild (optimistic), a snag; the compound I will be using needs to be mixed and poured above 72 and my basement work area barely reaches 68 in the winter months. Not prepared to bake this in the toaster over for 6 hours at 150 so I will wait until the weekend. May make a box and place a small space neater in it to see if I can get to an even 80 with on and off power. This takes 72 hours to fully cure.

I am attaching images of the inside of the cup portion of the mount. Under the metal baffle is (was) a perforated rubber pad. Under that is a 2nd baffle and under that is the bottom of the rubber diaper. Cleaned up everything except the diaper as the baffle is pinched into the body.
The perforated pad has to be pulled and twisted out with needle nose pliers.

The ball section has a hollow underneath and the stud looks to be similar to a basic wheel stud. It is pressed from the bottom and I believe the top is pinched onto the body of the ball. So, in manufacturing, they must have placed the "ball" in place, poured rubber into the cavity and then pinched the top, stud inserted, onto the "ball". "ball" because I have no other name for this item.

I won't be able to pinch the top on so will not be disassembling that part but may drill 2 holes into the sides so I can inject poly into the cavity when pouring that portion.

Plan to do this in 2 stages:
One is pouring a pad onto the baffle to provide lower support and as the top of the body is pinched inwards, this will keep the pad permanently fixed.

Once cured, 2nd part is to place the ball in place but on top of a tube. I have to make a holder for this, pour in the rest of the poly and let it sit.

So, should end up with the ball securely in place, sitting onto a firm pedestal of poly, sitting onto a poly pad. I don't want to completely fill the body with poly as that may make everything too stiff for comfort. My leaving some unfilled areas around the pedestal, should allow for some flexing.

The technical overview of the material i am using is:
60A hardness.
990 psi tensile strength,
400% elongation strength.

As the mount won't be moving around too much, not worried about tearing. Time will tell.

 

[Del]

Powerflex uses different colors for changes in durometer rating:

Yellow (70A, approximately 25% stiffer than stock), Purple (80A, approximately 30% stiffer than stock), and Black (95A, approximately 80% stiffer than stock.

Don't know how their yellow one (which is evidently what I have) compared to the Performatek purple "new softer" bushing. If I would one I would want it to be the same softness as the OEM. Trouble is, the OEM as available now is ~$160 ea, encased in it's metal mount part of the dogbone. Yow. Maybe I could buy the purple "new softer" version.

I suspect that these outfits have found that increased hardness is not necessarily better, esp for the street.

 

[Alfisto Steve]

The height of 164 front engine mount at base of threaded stud

The height of 164 front engine mount at base of threaded stud is 80mm (8cm). used straight edge on top of washer molded to rubber pad mounting.

See these pictures:

 

[Alfisto Steve]

Alfa 164 12/24v engine/transaxle mount info 2017

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/7542825-post325.html

 

[beeton]

Those stock mounts are crazy expensive considering what they are made of. Supply and demand. An entire kit for a ford escort is $70.
In any-case, I have poured in my first 2 sections. One is into the body about 1/2 way up and the other is into the ball cavity. Once these are properly cured, sometime on Monday, I will check them for quality and start the next part.
That will be pouring some sand into the cavity to take up a bit of space, put in 2 drain tubes, one on either side of the ball (for evacuating sand later),
pour in the rest of the poly and position the ball at proper height so it binds together. For that I have to make a small frame.
Once that all dries up, another 72 hours, evacuate the sand, cover the drain holes, make a frame around the ball up to the start of the stud and pour in remaining poly. Waite 72 hours and mount on car.
The space between the levels is to provide a bit of lateral flex.
Fingers crossed and we may find a way to replace.... or not replace a stock mount.

Have a good weekend.

 

[pinino]

Speaking of motor mounts, isn't this an interesting variant, with bolt instead of stud? Seems like it would be a lot easier to mount, requiring less jacking. Only €63 on ebay.it (item no. 292050100200)

 

[pinino]

dogbone mount

Speaking of the dogbone mount, are rubber bushes available? I've got poly bushes in the large and small positions and agree there is a lot of transmitted noise (although less since I changed the serpentine belt pulleys and removed the piece of "shrapnel" that was rubbing on the timing belt!!). I'd really like to change the large poly bush back to rubber .


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Here's one (new) on ebay.it (seller in Germany): Original Alfa Romeo 164 Motorhalter oben 195510107501 / 60560764 NEU

 

[pinino]

...and another (just the bushing)—two in stock: Silentblock tirante sospensione motore Alfa Romeo Alfa 164 tutti i tipi 60512998 | eBay

 

[beeton]

I had a look at the dog bone rubbers. Did notice some cracking. Filling in the gaps with poly may make it stiffer than I would like and I have watched a few videos on filling the gaps with a softer poly caulk, the type used for windshields, to take up gaps and extend the life. May make sense if the rubber has some cracking but is still fairly pliable. If cracked and hard, not much life left. Will attack those after i sort out the mount.

 

[beeton]

Speaking of motor mounts, isn't this an interesting variant, with bolt instead of stud? Seems like it would be a lot easier to mount, requiring less jacking. Only €63 on ebay.it (item no. 292050100200)

This fits twin spark and 3.0 up to 1988. if side by side, they can be compared and using a bolt would make life much easier.

 

[ChazzyD]

When the big end of my dogbone bushing developed some cracking and was a bit sloppier than it should be, I filled the voids with blue RTV and that worked very well to firm it up and still not as stiff as a solid poly bushing. Still running that now and it has been several years in service that way. The solid poly bushing I has was miserable stiff even when I tried to drill holes in it.
Charles

 

[beeton]

Waiting for the mount to cure fully. Should take 24 hrs at 72f but I have it in a hot-box with a lamp that heats to around 90f.
Added some spare poly to the gaps in my dog bone upper as well. There was some cracking evident but no rot. The smaller bushings look a bit tired but no slack so leaving them.
The mount is a bit wider at top than I wanted but I couldn't make a proper mold so if needed I will trip off the edges to contour.
I omitted the planned sand-gap as I had poured too much the first time around and did not leave enough space.
The poly in the dog bone will be cleaned up a bit and the material on top of the engine mount is some leftover material from an MDF plate I had made to line things up and keep the top level and at the right height.
Hope to get it all back on by Wednesday and will report back.

 

[beeton]

Mount installed

Installed poly mount. It was a chore but then I realized I had not slackened the rear mount (duh). Trimmed the far side to make sure there was ample clearance but the only snag was a not-perfectly aligned pin to dimple. I will jiggle a it before tightening up then lost of cleaning of grease and grime before a test drive.

 

[beeton]

Test drive with new mount

Went for a short one as rainfall continues to increase and I do not have my marker lights attached. Idle is smooth and lift-off much improved with new mount. There is still a bit of pull to the right when the foot is on the gas and a slight correction to the left when gas off. Not certain if there is another issue with suspension or if an adjustment to dogbone is needed. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Del]

Sounds a little more like maybe the inboard bushings of the front suspension lower arms are worn, allowing the change in alignment. Same sort of phenom as the old Sprint GT/GTV rear trailing arms bushings wearing and allowing the rear axle to change alignment and steering.

 

[beeton]

Sounds a little more like maybe the inboard bushings of the front suspension lower arms are worn, allowing the change in alignment. Same sort of phenom as the old Sprint GT/GTV rear trailing arms bushings wearing and allowing the rear axle to change alignment and steering.

Will check them out (if I can identify them). Left side cv boot broke so removing that side anyway. Might as well check both sides. I didn't feel any looseness in the suspension parts when working on the mount but may not know what to look for either.