Lionel,
It may be that your needle and seat is stuck open. You might try tapping on the carburetor with a brass or plastic hammer to see if you can un-stick it. If that fails, you may need to remove the top of the carburetor to access the needle and seat so you can clean it. It may have varnish or other chemicals causing it to leak.

 

Hi Don,
I would love to have it fix this way, I will try tomorrow ! Thanks for helping.
Lionel

 

It's been 35 years since I overhauled Solex PHH's, so don't recall the exact details. I think there are 4 screws that hold the top plate in place, which will give you access to the needle and seat. If they sit around in old gas, they can stick in the open position causing a flood of gas when you crank it up after many months.

 

unfortunately, as I was suspecting, it is not that simple.
I did as you mentionned, and that is not the issue.
I suspect the accelerator pump diaphragm might be the issue.
I have uploaded 2 small movies, and you will clearly hear that something is not ok...if some wizard can help me....
YouTube - 2600_1
YouTube - 2600_2

Lionel

 

In my opinion, overhauling the 44PHH is not all that difficult. You can buy repair kits with the parts you need, including the accelerator diaphragm. There may be comments from others about the undesirability of the carb, but so long as the throttle shaft and bores are not worn so bad as to leak substantial air, they can be rebuilt and made reliable. One must emphasize cleanliness and smooth operation.

If you see fuel running out from under one of the carburetors, then yes, it could be a pump diaphragm. It is just as hard to remove one carb as both, so remove them both, clean them up, and check the diaphragms. You can have them both off the car in less than an hour, do a general rebuild and clean-up in a day, and re-install them the next day after you have stopped cursing from the day before.

After listening to your Youtube posts, I have to ask how much fuel is leaking out? Is it a lot and constant or just a few drops?

I am wondering if you have an intake leak that is causing a lean-misfire back through an intake tract. When you rapidly advance the throttle it seems to clear up, which can be due to the accelerator pump richening the mixture, but when you advance the throttle slowly you get what sounds like a back-fire through the intake tract, which is indicative of a lean condition.

So - perhaps the accelerator diaphragm, or possibly an air leak through one of the rubber carburetor mount block?

Good luck,

Press on.

Don

 

Yes,
One thing that bother sme is that in order to remove the carbs I have to remove the oil filter, i.e to drain the oil...
The other thing is that I have fully restored the carbs with a complete restoration kit 2 years ago, i have new rubber mounts, and I have almost not driven the car since.
So, since I have installed recently the 123 ignition, might this issue come from there ? Any similar experiences ?
BTW, The fuel is leaking when I stop the engine, i.o when the fuel pump is still working but not the engine...
Lionel

 

Hidden air leaks

see post below

 

Hidden air leaks

Some observations from my recent experience... (with a 2000 engine)

Some rubber mounts can fail in the strangest of ways, despite how hard you tighted down. Also, and more rarely, the manifold itself has been known to be the source of an air leak...

My original inlet manifold had developed a fairly long split underneath (only discovered when it was removed and stripped of paint) - it turns out that water in the jacket had (over a very cold winter) frozen and expanded and therefore spilt the manifold enough to create a water and air leak.

It's also not unheard of for a worn Solex carb to create back-pressure and 'popping' and 'squeeks' as the foul air looks for somewhere to escape to or through - causing damage over time too. Likely to the rubber mounts or the vacum.

 

Yesterday I tried to removed the air plenum first... as I have one carb leaking out the accel diaphragm. I think one could get a screwdriver under there and get the diaphragm off and back on again but I also have a ck valve issue on the accel pump circuit.
I could not get all the plenum nuts off from the top so I started taking nuts off the carb side of the insulators. Ended up crawling under the car to:
get the rest of the nuts off the plenum ... it came off easy ( make sure to remove the two on the 'stay'. So with difficulty ( oil filter still on ) I was able to get all the nuts off the insulators. Stood up and tried to remove the carbs. Not budging. Tis like the bastards are glued onto the insulators. *** ? I mean ... there are only two nuts on each spacer ... unless I am a blind dunce. Anyone else have this problem in the past ?
Next I have to find the new chk valves that I bought ... years ago !

 

Much as I hate them . . . .

Regardless, Solex Phh44 carburetors are quite simple. And from what I have read in this thread I believe the float valve is stuck on the front carburetor so that it is always flooded and the two front cylinders are way too rich to fire. That is what happens when gas runs out the overflow tube (At least on a two liter there are plastic tubes that fit onto that overflow tube that are held on the bottom side by sticking them through a flat piece attached to the pan bolt).

So, here would be my fix: (1) Remember you must take the tops of all three carburetors off together, not just one and specifically not one at a time. The reason for this is that the yellow crossover gas line between all three must not be bent or it breaks and comes apart. (2) Carefully observed that on the top of each carburetor there is a plate into which the gas flows straight down. On the engine side of that top on each carburetor there are two countersunk screws which fit a flat blade screwdriver, and on the cold air box sice there are two square headed screws. (3) Remove all twelve screws -- six countersunk (don'e lose the conic lockwashers), and six square heads (again keep the lockwashers). (4) Now, since the tops pieces are all unbolted you can carefully lift all three tops off together (be careful not to tear any of the gaskets and see that the floats are all hanging about the same underneath (and that the bowls either are clean or might need to be cleaned a bit). (5) There is some slack and flexibility in the gas line that comes up from the front gas filter so you can lay the three tops with the floats on their sides. (6) Carefully, so you keep all pieces straight, check the float cut off valve which is screwed upside down into the top from the underside. I carefully use a 14mm wrench and take it (I assume only the front one is stuck open) off and make sure nothing is inside holding it from closing completely so the gas doesn't get cut off. In the past I have found pieces of the plastic tubing that might have chipped off when forcing it onto the piping, or bits of rust once when I did not use the paper filter in the gas sediment bowl). Analyse the fact that the bendix pumps on both two liter and 2600 pumps constantly so the only cut off of gas into the carburetors is that float valve. Once I have it out I suck on it and push the pin in and pull it out to verify that when I am doing so that it completely cuts cut off when the pin would be pushed up by the float when the level is high enough. (7) Although the books suggest the float might actually be sunk (because it has a leak) I have never personally observed one full of gas but that is supposed to be another possibility why the float valve might not cut off the gas. Regardless, make sure that the float is not full so as to remain sunk.

Yes, I assume you will check all three (oh, be so very careful not to break the yellow gas tube holding all three carburetors together) while you are at it, but from what you wrote I believe that cylinders 1 & 2 were not firing because they are on a siamesed intake and flooded out together. Once you get the carburetors carefully back together, I recommend taking out those two spark plugs and making sure they are not fouled. But maybe you ought to check all the gaps. (someone else verify spark gap on 2600; on two liter it is 25 thousandths)

Final comment on Solex Phh44 carburetors. They are not all that hard to keep working well. Just don't overkill when doing something on them. Do the easiest and most obvious steps first. Don't assume that when other people (such as myself) suggest Webers that Solex carbs don't work just fine. They do, but they were clearly chosen by the factory for fuel efficiency instead of full engine potential. And fuel efficiency makes sense. These cars are never going to be race cars. Perhaps a 2600 might not have the curse that each two liters has. The baffles in their tin oil pans don't keep the oil from running all to the corner in an extended high speed turn. An oil pump can only suck so much air before rod bearings disappear.

 

I had a bad float on a freshly overhauled Weber bought from the well-known guy in Europe. The constant flow of fuel ended up ruining two pistons and cylinders on my FNM, a head gasket, and all the work to remove the parts necessary to make the changes. About $1,500 worth of damage, all told.

If you have a leaking float, do NOT continue driving the car.

 

I had to use a box cutter to cut thru the gasket between the carbs and the insulator. A ***** but this did the trick. On carb #1 I found an extremely thin accel pump diaphragm that was leaking and the accel pump inlet check valve (5.73mm OD) was not sealing. The insulators are slightly cracked but these seem inordinately strong. For now will probably not throw in new ones as they are just too expensive. Interesting that many parts can be found for the Solex ... but not these bloody check valves ... at least not ones that press in like the originals. Of course now that all this stuff is out of the way I will have to detail and replace what I can on this side of the engine ... like the slave cylinder, hoses etc.

 

dipstick original ?

The dipstick tube was not pressed into the block all the way. Can I safely assume that it should be pushed down until the circular flange makes contact with the block. Also ... there is a tab welded to the tube near the top but no corresponding spot to mate it with a bolt.

I see two part numbers in the book, not sure if I have the right one.
Anyone have a new or correct used one for the spider ?

Mine was positioned in a difficult to 'pull' spot sort of under the crossover tube for the air plenum.

Thanks in advance.

 

The dipstick tube should be in the block until the ring hits. On my 62 Spider, the dipstick is also partially obscured by the crossover air tube and must be slightly flexed while removing it. On my car, the bracket on the tube mates with another small, flat steel bracket mounted under one of the lower bolts on the intake manifold.
Larry

 

Everybody has an opinion, just as everyone has a nose.

But some who have had their noses rubbed in it already ought to be listened to by those who would like to avoid that same event in their lives. You mentioned how hard it was to take the carburetors off. I recall I made a mess of it the first time too. It did not take long to learn it was always best to take off carburetors complete WITH the cold air box AND the rubber carburetor mounts still intact -- by removing only the bolts holding those mounts onto the intake manifold and leaving everything together. Of course you must also (1) unbolt the stand out arm (2) dis-attach the gas line, and (3) un-do the choke cables (after you lift the whole mess up and turn it over so you can work on that easily). In putting the carburetors back on I advise putting the cold air box and the rubber mounts on them, fixing the chock cables and then needing only to turn it over and hang it all together at first by the six top bolts (four bolts on a two liter) which can be easily fitted into the holes in the intake manifold.

I see by the photos that you are far far into the carburetors, much further than I believe would have been wise or necessary. Please at least still check the float valve in the front carburetor. From the symptoms you described I still believe that float valve is not sealing and the front two clylinders are too flooded to fire. And you might have discovered that the constant overflow forced the seal of that carburetors accelerator pump due to constant pressure against it.

But let me congratulate you. It is necessary to finally get into your engine and stir around a little, and you have had the guts to do it. As long as you don't break anything and/or can get the parts to put it back together right there is no other way to gain the confidence about it. When cars are as old as ours we quickly discover that if we take them to a mechanic he probably has little or no prior experience with a car like that either. But you will be the one paying for his education and taking the risk of his lack of learning.

As for the "hold down" for the dip stick tube, make one. Use a piece of flat stock about a half inch wide and put holes about an inch and a half apart. Before you put the carburetor back on this time (because you still have the mounting blocks bolted to the intake manifold) remove the nut on the bolt located closest to where the ear of the dipstick holder will fit when you push it all the way in. Put one end of the flat stock you made on that bold and tighten it down. Now bend the flat stock so that you can put a small bolt through the hold on the other end to attach it to the ear on the dipstick holder. There is a specific factory piece (and even a part number), but the piece is easy to make if you can't find it in the box of extras that came with the car.

 

Thanks Jay and Larry,
Tony (the owner of the 2600 that I work on) has purchased Herve's Weber system that was on ebay. Herve is going to help me with various other parts needed and soon I should have this 64 running again. Will keep ya updated. Putting the Solexes in a box for now but one gent on ebay says he has the proper accel circuit inlet check valves ... will advise on this and the Weber install ... as things progress.