Looks like a well planed conversion . What are you going to use for the carbs ?

 

Miguel, it will be a nice long term Christmas present for your GTV. What year is the car?

I'll be very interested as to what tweaks you will be using/adding to bump the HP up...a 'bit'.

Are you going to stick with the Motronic?

Biba

 

I have a used set of 40's that I got from the forum not long ago. Max from Alfaholics seemed to think that without going to resized valves, pistons, or a cam change the 40's are the appropriate carbs.

Maybe in the future if I go for more power I will swap out to 45's but for now 40's will do.

Miguel

 

At least for the moment I am not seeking a race motor's output nor am I going for fuel efficiency nor am I shooting for a precise restoration. I am looking to make a quick, reliable, ascetically pleasing daily driver.

The factory FI would work against point number three. I like the clean look of carbs; really the least stuff in the engine compartment the better.

As far as tweaks its just the stuff I mentioned in the first post. Carbs, full exhaust with under axle upgrade, 3D mapping, and maybe a little porting and polishing at the machine shop (matching the intake manifold and exhaust to the head). Once the car is dialed in I will look to put it on the dyno and report back what this level of tuning gets.

The body and drive train is a 74 though I will be putting on a 1750 grill. I like the look of the earlier noses. Being as the car/motor is not correct and I do not intend to sell I am not particularly worried about correctness.

Regards,

Miguel

 

Miguel, in my case I'm fully expecting to keep the Motronic. I fully agree with keeping the engine bay limited to just what is absolutely necessary is a nice thought. I not only don't want to pay for an aftermarket EFI system, don't want an engine bay filled with wires which are difficult to make neat and tidy, and I want as close to bullet proof a system as possible. Unlike the L-Jetronic, from what I read the Motronic is very reliable. Meaning I'm willing to live with a pretty packed engine bay for the benefits of EFI.

Why anyone gets a TS then uses carbs is beyond me - unless you get 45's then go balls out on engine mods. You still have to install a throttle position sensor, among other things, so you'll still require a control uniit of sorts.

I have 40's in my Alfetta GT and like their simplicity, but the atomiziation of carbs to EFI is like night and day.

I have an email into Wes Ingram who apparently has or is working on an inlet cam which will retain the vairable cam timing. This is important to me since I'll have A/C and want the engine to speed up 500 rpm at idle when the compressor is on. If he can supply one and along with higher compresson (10.2:1?) pistons, and perhaps a reburned chip, that will be it. Except for details like balancing the reciprocating parts and indexing the rods.

Biba

 

Interesting project.

 

6 to 1 I got the intake manifold and the 3D ignition kit from Alfaholics the throttle position data point is taken care of. The electronics will get mounted inside the car so its well clear of any weather conditions and out of sight.

If I kept the factory EFI then I would have to deal with a bunch of bulky, heavy, ugly, non-60/70's looking stuff in the engine bay. To each his own.

Miguel

 

great project,
if i were you i would also keep the carbies
along witht he alfaholics 3D ignition kit should make for a pretty smooth reving engine. and the sound of carbies is unbeatable.
are u going to use an alfaholics intake manifold aswell?? if you can do a bit of fabrication work, just make some alloy flanges to suit the carbies and have them welded onto the standard ts manifold and block of the injectors, will save u paying the very high price for the custom reproduction manifold!
cheers, Brad

 

yeah I used to have the time for fabrication work and had access to a machine shop (while in college) but those days have come and gone. I went with the Alfaholics intake manifold, actually it just came in too

69alfa, I read about your experience with 40 to 45's on another thread and was thinking of changing up. I actually got the 40's while expecting to use the nord engine for a while. Maybe once the car is on the road for a little and my wallet has a chance to recover I will do a swap. Though Max seemed to think the 45's may be over carbing for the stock engine.

Max, if you are following this thread can you tell us more about this? Was I understanding that correctly?

 

When I first put my TS in my Spider I used Weber DCOE 40s and I was blown away by how much more power I had . Then I put in 45s and... I was blown away again. I never put the car on the dyno back in the carb days but the gain from 40s to 45s was very noticeable.

I would highly recommend putting an O2 sensor and gauge in. I am using one from Innovate motorsports

You can also get ones that go in the tail pipe just when you want to do tuning .

 

Here is a good page about the selection of Webers.
http://joltfreak.tripod.com/id28.html

The one I used is long gone or at least I can't find it .

When I went through the maths it all pointed to the 45s the way the came in the box .I did have to change the idle jets to get the motor to run smooth .

I was happy with the power but not with the gas millage or the petro stink.

Good luck with the carbs I myself am glad to be done with them but that just me.

 

small up date

The body is fully stripped down and ready for the body shop to do their thing. I decided re-sell red was not my color and while the car was 90% of the way to fully stripped down now was the time to take care of the paint work.

Also I went a head and got 45's. I was not happy with the older mystery 40's and I wanted to try and utilize the spica air box. New 45's took care of these issues, for the moment anyway.

If I mount the air box right to the carbs then there is just enough room in a nord engine bay. Not certain about the TS engine bay but I am assuming its not going to be all that different. We will cross that bridge when we get there.

The body shop told me they would be ready this week or next for the car. And the machine shop said they should be done with the motor in the next two months....I know thats about as specific and reliable as estimating the national deficit; worthless.

Here are a couple of pics of the carbs with the spica air box.

1) with the nord intake manifold

2) without

Also here is a pic of the valve covers

Thats it for now.

Miguel

 

Using the SPICA airbox is a cool mod. Did you have to make special gaskets to get the airbox to fit flush with the carbs?

 

Yes I am planning to use a foam weather seal. Had to hammer the air box a little so the carbs would get up as close to it as you see it. As it sits the two mate up fairly close; the weather seal would be to eliminate the small gaps that still exist.

I like the look and from what I have read there the factory air boxes (Euro I imagine they meant) with a fresh air feed give better performance then any of the bolt on air filters. Double bonus for me.

Hopefully it will work. I am kind of worried about the Alfaholics' intake manifold being much longer then the factory one. Max doesn't seem to think it will fit <duck> might have to fall back to the factory intake manifold w/ modification for carbs...I would rather not have to get into that though.

 

off to the body shop

Well sent the car and the parts car off to the body shop last night. They are thinking its going to take three weeks or so. Fun fun.

 

Well sent the car and the parts car off to the body shop last night. They are thinking its going to take three weeks or so. Fun fun.

Which is the parts car?

If it is the damaged nose car then that is very easily fixed and from that photo the rest of it looks way too good to waste ... what a shame.
Pete

 

New pistons

Well the engine builder reported that I needed new liners and pistons. The original ones were worn out. Charlie at Spruell's was kind enough to send some down and they arrived today!!

Its really nice to have resources available to facilitate these projects. My last resto was a boat that was never produced in great numbers and finding information on it was a real bear. With this build all I have to do is pick up the phone, write an email, or look here on the BB and I have a plethora of answers.

I can't wait!!

Miguel

 

What compression are the pistons ?

 

10.5:1; Spruell has these and the 11.5:1 on the shelf. Seems like from what I have read the 10.5:1 should run on 93 octane especially with the twin spark. Charlie did not recommend going with the higher ones.

Though I have not verified it with any testing all the gas stations in South Florida offer 93 octane.

69 you are using a higher compression or are you sticking with 10.5:1?

The next question becomes cams. I am hoping the stock ones are not worn out and can be reused.

Any recommendations in the event they too need to be replaced?

Regards,

Miguel

 

The pistons I have are 11:1 from Alfaholics matched with a set of their cams. I would talk to Sprurell to see what cam they recommend .

At first I was going to mix and match cams and pistons then I decided it would be best to get them as a "kit" so there will be no need to modify the pistons to the valve lift.

The cams that came from Alfaholics are a thing of beauty . They are made from hollow blanks and have a hex cut into them so they will not require anything but a wrench to time them.

Don't tell anybody but the cams come from http://Catcams.co.uk

I would find it very strange for a set of cams to wear out . If you do need a good set of stock cams let me know I will never need mine again.

Also if you are going to after market cams you will need to replace the VVT with a cam gear holder like the one on the exhaust side. Note that twin spark ones are a lot shorter than the Nord ones. You can see what I did here http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/976516-post84.html

Or you can talk to Ingram Enterprises, Inc. to get a stock set of cams welded up then cut to any profile you like .

 

Unfortunately this car came from Wisconsin. And from the looks of the underside it was its owners winter car. Driven on salted roads and not hosed down. Its unfortunate as it seems like the car was well taken care of otherwise.

The accident is another matter too. It does not look to bad but its bad enough to have misaligned the steering column on the other side of the car.

Between the rust and the accident a fair bit of the steel would have to be replaced.

My car came without an interior, a shot motor, and most of the body work already done. I am happy enough to put one back on the road for now. We'll see what life brings for the other one; track day toy maybe

 

Main Cap and Head Torque specifications

Hello everyone. My engine builder has two sets of torque figures for the main caps and the head and has asked me to verify what the correct ones are.

The first torque numbers comes from a computer database for the 2L Twin spark engines. He did not seem to think these were right as they were much higher then they should be. The second set of figures are from the spider engines he has built before. Was there a difference between the TS torque spec and the nord engine torque spec?

Can someone point in the right direction for my research?

Thanks

Miguel

 

Never mind I took a look at the shop manual that Craig's Place has and there it was clear as day.

Miguel

 

Stopped by the engine builder today snapped a few photos.

The heads done. They are going to be shot peening the crank, drill it for the pilot bushing, polish, and balance. And then on to assembling.

New liners:

Minor porting/polishing, re-cut the valve seats, new valves, new valve guides, springs, seals, etc...

Oil races cleaned and tapped for screw:

 

Thing$ of beauty,

Biba

 

...drag........Time just drags on....

I had the body shop spray an RC car body with the color I picked. They are about a week out from spraying they say (again).

Here is the RC body:

Kind of my modern interpretation of giallo ocre. I have always been a fan of that color on this car. This particular rendition has a bit more brilliance to it.

In the sun it really pops.

 

The body shop shot the body this weekend. The color looks stunning. They still need to wet sand and buff but here are some progress photos.

Should get the motor back this week. Last report was they were buttoning it up.

Will post pics of the TS as soon as I get it back seeing as this is the engine conversion forum (wink)

Miguel