AlfaBeta,

I am running my Milano without the power steering and have no complaints with it. For awhile I was running 225/50/15's on the car and that was a real workout in low speed manouvering - but with the current 205/50/15's it is fine. Of course I have never had power steering on it - so I don't have a good point of reference - but I don't think it is bad at all.

Chris
1987 Milano Project (w/ RSR Suspension)
1982 Spider Veloce

 

I've been running my Milano sanspower steering for a couple of months now, and I really like how it feels. Parking is a bit tough, but above 15 mph it's terrific. I didn't do the Greg-Mod, just snipped the belt and left the rest of the system intact for the time being. Running 205/55-15 tires and a standard-diameter Momo wood steering wheel.


Dave Spiegelthal
Centreville, VA

'87 Alfa Milano Gold
'85 Alfa GTV6
'77 Fiat X1/9
'71 Fiat 850 Spider

 

I did Greg's conversion. Not bad at all. Recently I went from 195's to 205's. It's a bit tougher in low speed now but you get used to it quickly. I was in the same predicament. I had the engine out and didn't want to deal with PS leaks after putting the engine back in.

 

My GTV6 is without pwr steer and runs a 350mm Momo.

It is heavy at parking speed with 215/40 17 road tyres or 195/55 15 race rubber, but is significantly lighter with 195/60 15 road tyres (must be construction related).

Putting a 380mm Momo wheel on it makes it FEEL like it has pwr steer!

 

GTV6s never had power steering, and their ratio is a bit slower than the Milano's steering along with having a bit less weight up front, so they should be a bit easier to steer than a Milano with the p.s. disconnected (all other things being equal, i.e. tire and steering wheel sizes).

In theory.

 

GTV6 is 3.6 turns lock to lock, Milano is 3.3

A few people have converted their GTV6's to PS by using the steering column, rack, ps pump, bracket, and all of the lines and little things from a Milano/75.

 

GTV6 is 3.6 turns lock to lock, Milano is 3.3

Nooooo, really? I should go hunting for a 75 rack! Is it really a quicker rack, or just less lock?

 

No, the 75 rack is noticeably quicker too.

I don't know tons about it yet, but apprently you could use your 3.6 rack and use a plentary gear device that goes between the steering wheel and the rack..it comes in either a 2:1 ratio or a 1.5:1 ratio.

You can find them at Summit Racing Parts.

 

I like the 75 power steering. I think it makes the car more nimble and has plenty of feel and not too much assistance. I am seriously considering fitting a 75 set up to my GTV because I don't like the heaviness of the steering.

 

first things i did when i semi rebuilt my 75 3litre was ditch the a/c and p/s....

steering feel at speed is a whole lot better with the manual rack

 

Steering feel at speed on my 75 is excellent, there is no vagueness at all. I think it helps the car turn in much more quickly and precisely. I can whip the 75 around roundabouts into an exit more quickly than the GTV. It is easier to zip round car parks or tight twisty hills roads too. I think Alfa got the balance just right. The power steering on our Volvo is quite a bit lighter and does lack feel in comparison, but is better than some other cars.
All I can say is you guys must have much stronger arms than me.

 

I don't know why if you had the engine out, you wouldn't just buy a rebuilt rack.

My 75 RS 24V has the the GTV6 rack, 350mm Momo, and 215 40 17 tires. The steering isn't bad once it's rolling. I did notice that the tires have a huge impact on steering effort. THe 215 Pirelli Pzero MS have fairly light steering. The 205 Falken I had on 16 inch tires steer like a truck. If I drive the car all week the manual steering feels normal.

The firmer shocks will tend to also increase steering effort.

The GTV6 rack is is slow. The Milano rack is not fast, but feels fast compared to the gtv6 rack. The GTV6 with a Milano rack should be quite nimble since the wheelbase is shorter by a few inches.

So the bottom line is the Milano PS is a good system and worth keeping especially if you have the engine out which makes rack replacement a piece of cake. The manual steering is OK and liveable but it is a matter of choice. On the street, I'll take the power steering. If you share the car with someone who doesn't workout than the PS is mandatory!

 

OK, one thing to keep in mind before ditching the PS is that ZF has said at one point that the Milano rack was the best PS steering rack they have ever built. I think I remember reading that they were talking in terms of steering feel and weight, wich I think is fantastic.

 

You think they are going to say it sucks?

 

It is the best, there is no question about it.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. I certainly haven't driven anything with a system anywhere near as good, let alone better.

 

The E30's is too light, I don't like it.

 

I read that the E30 have 4.0 turns lock to lock which is pretty darn slow. The E30 M3's have a faster ratio. A common mod is to put in an E36 rack or an E30 M3 rack into a standard E30.

I searched and found our Milano rack is about 18:1 steering ratio compared to 19.6:1 steering ratio of the E30 M3. The standard BMW E30 is about 20.5:1. The Milano rack sounds quick until you realize an Evo has a 13:1 ratio or a BMW e46 M3 Competition Pack at 14.6:1. I thought that the 164S rack was noticeably quicker than the Milano. At some point, you get tired of folding arms through the corners.

 

Once again, amazing what can be learnt on this board.

 

I was totally kidding BTW. I respect E30's, but I don't want one.

I drove an E30 M3 a couple of times, it was quite a hoot. Seems like a really fun track toy right out of the box. There's also an E30 318is with an iron block 1.8 liter 4 banger with a forged crankshaft and 4 valve heads good for 150hp. They're like a really cheap M3. The best part: they have a curb weight of around 2500lbs

 

Power steering in Milano and BMW 318i

I drove a 1991 BMW 318i, with the M42 twincam four (1.8L and I think about 135 hp) for four years, putting about 120K miles on it. It was the only non-Italian car I've ever owned that rivaled my Alfas for 'fun-to-drive' as well as 'reasonably easy to work on'. The power steering was quick enough for my tastes and had pretty good feel, but I'd agree it was too light (overboosted). More recent BMWs, by the way, are even worse in that respect, I feel their steering is WAY too light. But then again, I thought my Milano steering was much too light with the power assist operational -- I'm much happier now with the p.s. belt snipped.

 

I drove a 1991 BMW 318i, with the M42 twincam four (1.8L and I think about 135 hp) for four years, putting about 120K miles on it. It was the only non-Italian car I've ever owned that rivaled my Alfas for 'fun-to-drive' as well as 'reasonably easy to work on'. The power steering was quick enough for my tastes and had pretty good feel, but I'd agree it was too light (overboosted). More recent BMWs, by the way, are even worse in that respect, I feel their steering is WAY too light. But then again, I thought my Milano steering was much too light with the power assist operational -- I'm much happier now with the p.s. belt snipped.

Jeez, is your other car a '56 Ford 1.5 ton truck? I haven't found another car with heavier steering with PS on than the Milano!

 

How'dja know about my truck? It's a '55, by the way.

Kidding.

DS

 

What makes it better?

 

The weight and the ratio is "just right" (a very subjective issue, I know), with enough feel for roadway irregularities, but with enough damping to cancel out every single fricken' pebble from jolting the steering wheel. Car is easy to park, and the turning circle is surprisingly decent.

 

I would agree, this is a very good way to sum up the P/S. The Milano P/S is the standard by which I judge other cars.

I certainly wouldn't want a Milano without it, especially when rebuilt racks are readily available.

Joe

 

Yeah, but Joe, he's describing that of an F355. The Milanos do seem to kick back little pebbles...especially when it's lowered and you have bump steer problems. It's refreshingly raw though.

 

I'd say both PS racks behave the same, Grant, but the F355 would be a ten our of ten in my book (with the above description) while the Milano would get a nine. They're close. Perhaps the F355's feel slightly better is the missing weight up front?

 

Cool...the Milano is a pretty good value then.

 

Don't get me wrong; they ain't Ferrari's but the spirit is there! I always liked the chassis and steering on the Milanos.

I guess I should stop hijacking this thread.

 

I have driven plenty of Milanos and I run with no PS. I wouldn't want one with the PS. I love the raw feel. Yeah, it sucks in parking lots and there ain't no possibilty of multi-tasking... but then again, I'm driving an Alfa, right?

Talk about feel... what I really like is with a good amount of caster and stiff sidewall tires and no PS, this thing snaps out of high speed corners like a freakin' jet fighter. I have yet to feel another car like this... hence my addiction

FWIW, I finally ditched the PS pump and AC stuff too. It's in a box in my garage and if anybody wants all of my PS and AC stuff, PM me and offer to pay for shipping and it's yours.

 

This is just what Greg Gordon wrote on his website. Argue with him about it if you want. I'm just the messenger.