meanwhile, Im trying to price a replacement/reman'd in tank pump for bigpapajoe- just in case. cant find any- arent they called in tank fuel pumps?? Auxilliary pump? Ebay has only the regular bosch under the car body pumps........

thanks.

 

Geez, could this work? doesnt look anything like what I remember ........

Saab Mazda Volvo Pickup Truck Car Electric Fuel Gas Pump 35074368 New | eBay

 

Any idea of the pressure of that replacement pump? Some cars only have one fuel pump - in the tank. The Alfa has two pumps, the in-tank (low pressure) pump and the main pump (high pressure) under the car.

BB member Bianchi is the master of finding non-Alfa replacement parts. IIRC, he figured out how to use the in-tank pump from some other car. A search for fuel pump using his username name might find more info.

 

here is one model, specific for our Alfas (in tank, low pressure pump):
Amazon.com: Delphi FE0069 Electric Fuel Pump Motor: Automotive

when in doubt, check Rockauto - even just to cross reference parts.
Joe

 

I'd narrow it down first since you're not sure if it's spark or fuel. Pull a plug wire, put a spare plug in and ground the body of the plug, spin over the engine and look for spark at the end. Don't hold the plug to ground it, you'll dance. If you see a decent spark, then it's generally fuel.

I haven't done an in tank on an alfa yet, but just a general note on in-tank systems, make sure you use immersion type fuel hose whenever there is a hose in the tank. A regular fuel hose or fuel injection hose won't do, it'll turn to mush in no time.

-eric

 

thanks, people. Sorry if I got too far ahead of our main problem by focusing on obtaining a pump- main question now, and back to OP's question (my question as well)- what does that CLICK mean instead of the normal hummmmmmmm? Dead pump? (I doubt its spark, at this point, but thanks, Duck)
Thanks.

 

Randall, are you here today?? Just sent you a PM on this subject.........

 

OK, meanwhile, lets say it is the motor-would I be able to replace JUST the electric motor and keep the rest of the unit, people?

thaks.

 

The fuel pump's electric motor? No - AFAIK, it is all a sealed unit.

When you say the fuel pump isn't making a 'hum' with the key in the 'on' position that would be normal. The fuel pumps should only run under these conditions: 1) the key is turned to 'start' or B) the engine is running.

 

I dunno, Eric, I always (meaning me or Bigpapajoe) get the hummmmmmm from the sending unit just before the final step/turn of the ignition key to engage the starter. Call that 1st position, maybe Im wrong on that, maybe its 2nd position, whatever- its the position JUST before starting the car. Hummmmmmm. Not getting it now. just click click.

yes, maybe we should look at th relay. I will call papajoe and tell him, asap. (he works many, many hours)

 

Are you sure that it is the pump and not the relay? Had a similar problem (with a surprisingly similar noise) several weeks ago and finally determined that the relay was the problem. Bosch relays with a plastic case (at least the one in my '84 Veloce) can be opened up, the contacts cleaned up (used a diamond fingernail file and contact cleaner) and the cover replaced. Much cheaper than a replacement if that is your problem.

I miss the days of serviceable parts.

 

thanks, saddle. its looking like we have to inspect the relay for corosion, etc. Randall just also, recomended that by phone (Thanks, Rand!!) we are on the right trrack!!

Oh, Eric, any way to post a pic of the diagram showing the relay with a pointer?? I know its a favor to ask- I dont have the shop manual.......if not, we will find it eventually.....

 

i am here, just pm you

 

big thanks, Eric! Great picture! Now, will we be looking at the main or drive relay, as you show in picture, as the culprit?

Thaks.

 

Update: wanted to convey that Randall coached Bigpapajoe on some diagnoses, and they were able to jump battery voltage to both the in tank AND the main fuel pump! So, its not the pump. More to come.......(oops- a minute late on my posting.....)

 

Just a thought...

Had a very similar issue w/my 86. Car would not start the pumps with the key in the "on" position. With help from the diagnosis section of the service manual, I determined that the ignition switch was only sending 9v to the computer start system (computer needs 10+ volts to start the pumps). I don't have the access to the service manual, but the only way to determine the start voltage from the ignition circuit was the read the voltage across two pins of the computer wiring harness.

(Dang... wish I had access to the service manual right now for the exact PIN numbers)

 

Great- bought a new relay, put it in, still no start. Now what? ,maybe check spark? Now we are getting desperate......

 

Connect a voltmeter to the battery. (ignore a dash gauge if the car has one - they don't usually measure what we need to know) With everything off a good battery should show ~ 12.6V. If lower - charge it up.

Next see what it reads during cranking. If it drops to 10.5V or less the computers won't wake up to send the squirt fuel/make spark signals.

If it reads low but the battery is properly charged, clean all electrical connections in the battery to starter circuit. Including & especially the grounds. Then re-do the cranking voltage test.

 

Thanks, Eric, for the inspiration- we need that. We will do those tests and let you know. Randall also is supporting us by phone.........

 

Update: car sitting still, v is 12.03 or so. Cranking, get between 10.7-11.4 or so. Also, tried to jump it with another car, no start- same symptom. Advice appreciated. bad battery? Can I have a bad batery and still wont start with jump?

 

12.3 with everything off is a little low, 10.7 during cranking might be marginal for the computers to wake up, 11.4 should be OK (I've measured 11.6-11.8 with our Spider).

Are all connections in the battery - starter circuit clean & tight?

Do you have spark? Simplest way to test is to pull off a spark plug wire & connect it to a spare spark plug. Ground the threads then have your trusted assistant crank the engine over while you watch the spark plug. There should be a bright blue spark. A yellow spark is weak. And no spark means more diagnosis needed.

If you have spark then consider removing the spark plugs to clean (or replace) them. Multiple failed attempts at starting will foul the plugs making the no-start situation worse.

 

12.3 with everything off is a little low,

I thin you meant 12.03, as thats what I stated 2 posts ago, right Eric? still, whether 12.03 or 12.3, stll low, I take it. Same thing....

 

Thaks, again, Eric, for quick folow up. We are going to check for spark tomorrow. Im flying there tomorow AM with spark tester in my suit case......LOL!!

Will also check connections at terminal (a few months ago, we had to beef up the terminal diameter with the sleeves).

I will advise with results, and hope all goes well.

Sr.

 

Update: got new battery, still won't start, showing 12.5v. Put a spark tester, getting spark on one of the wires so spark looks good. removed one plug, gap area was dry and didn't smell any fuel. Replaced the relay with a Beck Arnley 203-0100, it fit right in but still didn't start, we're wondering if we replaced the right thing?

 

Sounds like a fuel issue.
How much fuel is in the tank and did you check the in-tank pump stepped hose to make sure its still one piece? Was the filter sock still attached? Could the under car filter be plugged? How about the fuel pressure at the rail?

gnhl - could flywheel sensors cause this?

 

...could flywheel sensors cause this?

I assume so. The computers use the flywheel sensors to know if the flywheel is moving (rpm) & postion (timing). Usually a faulty flywheel sensor will mean no spark, however.

So, if you are sure there is spark (ignition) then it is likely that fuel is lacking. Check the fuel pump fuse - located near the FI computer under the parcel shelf behind the right seat. If it is an original style 'bullet' fuse replace it even if it looks OK. I would suggest replacing the whole thing with an in-line blade fuse holder. Original fuse is 8 amps.

In-line blade fuse holder:

There have been reports of alternate (non-Bosch) drive relays that look & fit like the originals but they don't work reliably. The drive relay is what powers on the fuel pumps based on a signal it gets from the coil so it knows the engine is running (thst's why it is vital to make sure you have spark). The main relay is what controls the fuel injectors.

 

tank has 1/2 full of gas. Also, this may be the key: sometimes, upon start up, the engine DOES catch/start/run , but for just 1-2 seconds. That means elecs should be ok, but if starved fir fuel, it then would die out. Right? Man, could fuel filter be that dirty? to plug the flow?

 

I would start by bringing the tank to at least 3/4 full. The stepped hose on the fuel pump splits in half when it fails and when the tank is less than half, you'll be sucking more air than fuel. But I'd still pull the pump to check to see if the sock filter is attached.

A partly plugged filter can affect flow. If its age is unknown, consider changing it. In fact, if the fuel hoses are original, they could look ok on the outside but be crumbling on the inside and plugging the filter. Ask me how I know.

 

There is a start circuit that bypasses the drive relay to ensure the fuel pumps get power during cranking (before the engine starts & the drive relay gets the expected signal from the coil). So, it is possible the drive relay is faulty, the fuel pumps are getting power during cranking then, due to the faulty drive relay, they lose power when you release the key to the 'run' postion.

 

But I thought I just replaced the drive relay- that beck arneley relay (posted the code # a few posts ago- you can verify that if you can, to see if that is indeed a drive relay), I popped it in and still no start. I since replaced it with the old one). Maybe I should get a MAIN relay now???

Thaks.