JJ, can you put it into the 116?

Also, one thing some people have complained about the DI engines is carbon buildup since there is no fuel (additive) to clean the valves which may be contaminated by oil vapor and EGR.

 

JJ, can you put it into the 116?

Would be nice! We'll probably do some measuring before it goes back into the Brera.

This is the holden motor, yeah?

Well, it's not exactly "Holden's motor" but yes, that one. It grew from a cooperative development between GM / Holden with efforts between Australia, Germany, the United States and Sweden. Some of them are built there in Melbourne and then some of them in Canada and Mexico and here in the US...

Holden does produce their own 3.2 in Melbourne derived from the same fundamental design; Alfa completes their cores at their own factories in Italy, but with their own heads...

Looks more like decent engineering rather than outstanding engineering. Certainly nothing that other manufacturers haven't already been using for years in some way or another.

Dunno man, I'd call 304-315 horsepower from a V6 production motor (on pump-gas), with modern emissions requirements outstanding engineering, would you not? Sure, I mean Alfa already produced a Stoichiometric 4-banger some 8-9 years ago, but still - they needed something new and this seems as good as any internal effort that they could have mustered.

 

This is the holden motor, yeah?

 

*Some photo's twice in these 2 articles.
Looks more like decent engineering rather than outstanding engineering. Certainly nothing that other manufacturers haven't already been using for years in some way or another.

Why is this a 'Browser Warning'?
Why??? (Autospeed)

 

Good point; we were talking about it amongst ourselves too - how the hell would one tune this thing on anything less than a 6,000 dollar MoTec license! The GoTech will run the vario cams and then injection is just ignition-pulse, so perhaps it's not that complicated, but still...

When I drove the 159 with this motor in SA, it was just so bloody smooth - the mapping was undeniable - what to do - what to do once you modify the bloody thing for a race application? In the road-car it's easy - UniChip the bugger. There aren't any intake flapper-crapper restrictions anymore, so now you just want the piggy-back tune-ability! I'm hoping that since the motor made it into the Camaro, that tuners end up with open-source software of sorts - like the Honda guys did!

If Piet de Weerd (UniChip / Dastek) manages to squeeze 1300+ horsepower from his own Gallardo (running two UniChips), he can probably figure this Alfa V6 / JTS system out...

 

Autospeed is about the earlier V6 (pre SIDI) but if the same approach can be used with the SIDI

Autospeed "In a direct injection system the available time for injection is significantly shorter during part-load, stratified charge operation - for example, injection times at idle are less than 0.5 milliseconds. This is only one-fifth of the available time experienced with conventional manifold injection. However, even in this very short time the fuel must still be finely atomized in order that it can create an optimal mixture in the brief moment between injection and ignition. Direct injection fuel droplets are on average smaller than 20 µm - only one-fifth of the droplet size used with traditional manifold injection and one-third of the diameter of a human hair."
So an aftermarket system that can run direct injection must be able to have its injection timing (relative to piston/crankshaft position) adjustable and be absolutely consistent.

Once upon a time, most petrol heads would have suggested or actually moved to stand alone aftermarket systems. But recent engines and their engine management systems are so complicated that (as long as the factory system can be hacked for reprogramming) doing all the can be done to retain the factory system is probably a very good idea.
For cars built in the last 5-10 years, I'd need a very good reason to go aftermarket. Maybe for a race car, but that would be only for data logging.
When you see a built Ford XR6 turbo churning out 1000+hp (engine dyno, not guestimated) running a retuned factory system, you know things have gotten better

 

Two sets of 95mm bore forgies are headed to South Africa (still waiting on the rings for the one set of Camaro DI pistons that I ordered - there are currently only 22 sets available as parts within the entire GM inventory system...)!

 

The stock Brera 89mm piston has this one weird notch on the one side, that I can not - for the life of me - quite figure out...

Any way, looks a bit like a stock 93mm GTA piston with those Teflon-coated skirts and short overall height! I had the new 95mm units made 1mm thicker on top, but the weights stayed the same!

 

Saved a bit off of the wrist-pin and saved a bit off of the piston itself - despite the increased bore!

 

Check out the weird steel inserts on the OEM Brera piston's top ring groove...

 

thats nothing unusual.

Further the original brera prototye was fitted with a 450BHP maserati motor & I wanted one! the final production car is a disappointment so I didn't buy one !

 

The notch is probably for balancing, or to clear an oil squirter

 

That was my first guess too Scott, but I was unsure of what else might be obvious. I think you nailed it.

Cool post Turbolarespider - thanks for the detail - you really know your poop on this stuff!

We're taking it one step at a time and will get to modifying the injection management at some point , I'm sure. A the end of the day, timing is timing - that part should be simple. As far as the fueling, we're still only talking injector-pulse - faster, yes - but still, just injector pulse-timing. UniChip has already done some of these (after all, diesel DI and JTS have both been around for a long time)!

For now we have taken on stronger, forged internals, a larger displacement via an increased bored and stroking the crank and then finally a slightly higher compression-ratio as a first step in the process. Dawie will also do some porting and experiment with improvements to the exhaust headers as part of this first phase! We'll just have Dastek do a UniChip for starters to get the ignition and fueling optimized.

There is a single (LARGE) turbo, 24v big-bore 156 project sitting off to the side that needs to get wrapped up by the time I get to SA in October!

 

Wow, I wish I saw this post before, but since it's only been up for a couple of weeks, I haven't missed much.

First question- are you planning an aftermarket control system, or work with the original? If you are intending to modify the original (which is what I would fully suggest), the piston design is like it is to use the DI injectors to form a really cool stratified charge at certain times- which at the most basic level on DI engines is the cold start and idle (and when I (as in the engineer) say cold start, that's any sub 100F engine start where its been off for over 8 horus). We found that a split injection strategy can be used to give great stabilty, and really good combustion for very low emissions in a manner that the customer does not have any idea that it's happening.

Second- the controller- I honestly think that the Motec will have a tough time running this engine. Even assuming Fiat sourced the Marrelli DI hardware (which is quite good, BTW), the drivers for the pump and injectors are quite complicated, especially if the pump is on a cam that moves. One has to time the pump controls to within a few degrees every rotation for proper pressure control (and you are low on the peak pressure- while that engine may be calibrated to only 1700 psi, most of us run up to 2100psi right now). The next controller complication is that the injector drivers run at 65 volts, which is unique to DI.

I'm sure there is a hacker out there who has gotten into the original controller to modify it- within two weeks of the current SHO going into production, our controller/calibration had been hacked, and modified. Life will be a LOT simpler for you if you can use the original controller- hacking vs. the complication of making a pump controller and engineering injector drivers... yikes.

One last thing- all DI systems that I am aware of are high pressure pump volume limited. So unless you figure out a way to add a second pump, you will probably not be able to make more than about 400hp.

Good luck with the project- I've been working on DI for 4 or so years now- SHO, MKS, MKT, and Flex with EcoBoost is in production with my cal in in.

 

turbolarespider offtopic but do you know where to get DI injectors. I think they might fit in a spica intake as they also have the long snout. and also running at very hi-PSI should work like the spica. I have been running a servo system in the spica pump. but the DI injectors might be a better way.

 

While you can get them from a BMW or Ford dealer, I don't really see them as a net benefit for a SPICA intake. Very high pressure injection is fine for direct injection, but any more than 55 psi for port injection is kind of a waste. And the benefit for going from 40 to 55 psi is atomization on the start, before the enigne warms up.

Once the engine hits about 140deg, PFI injectors are just injecting vapor anyway.

Unless you wanted to actually try DI with a Nord engine.... That would be interesting.

 

One more thing about those pistons- those steel inserts in the top lands are there for ring pounding. May want to find a way to put them in, since it's cheaper to use the best of the best aluminum than the inserts- that implies that the aluminum lands are not tough enough.

With these high compression engines, the top lands can take a beating....

 

Nice, Alfa owners can finally put their "JEGS" catalog to good use...hey crate engines!!!

 

I am thinking the steel land must be needed too. might be the motor also self ignites (the name for that in DI escapes me.) in some modes kinda like a diesel kinda like det. so the lands and ring need to take it.

The nord is not like normal injection it injects at very hi PSI and with the valve open. and the injector do not point at a closed hot valve. so normal E injectors 1 do not fit and 2 at the wrong angle. as far as I can tell the PSI is so high that is also pushes some air in too. so you get a small amount of boost with the spica. something that just can't be matched with normal injectors. I think alfa played with DI the spica could do the job easy but I think the carbon on the intake valves was too much to deal with back then. the fancy shapes of the new pistons to help control DI just was not thought up yet.

 

The nord is not like normal injection it injects at very hi PSI and with the valve open. and the injector do not point at a closed hot valve. so normal E injectors 1 do not fit and 2 at the wrong angle. as far as I can tell the PSI is so high that is also pushes some air in too. so you get a small amount of boost with the spica. something that just can't be matched with normal injectors. I think alfa played with DI the spica could do the job easy but I think the carbon on the intake valves was too much to deal with back then. the fancy shapes of the new pistons to help control DI just was not thought up yet.

High is relative- 150psi is more than 39 psi, yes, but not that much.

There's no reason why you can't do open valve injection with PFI injectors.

And, like I posted before, once the engine gets hot, you are injecting vapor anyway, so the whole high pressure part becomes pretty moot for port injection whether it be open or closed valve injection.

If you want to do it, feel free. But do know that DI injectors flow a LOT less than normal PFI injectors, since they are designed to run at very high pressures.

Well, unless you are planning on installing a pump capable of 1000 psi.... That should be enough for a N/A Nord engine.

 

I might be wrong but I thought the spica was like 150bar not psi so in psi that is over 2000 PSI. and the need for the thick steel line with a pin hole in the center. It is a diesel system after all, converted to gas and port. and I was thinking hi-PSI. but the fit is the biggest thing. The DI injectors is the only injector I have seen with the very long skinny tip that could work with spica intake. I am thinking bolt on no milling(at lest on the alfa side). So fit is the show stopper with other injectors. everything else is minor and can be tuned more or less any ways with a computer type ECU. The other way I have thought about is to use the stock spica injectors. and put a e-injector where the spica pump is. and just use it as a valve. there is 2 ways to do it one use the spica pump in max displacement mode and valve open to return line. the other is hi-PSI common rail down by the spica(spica delete). and there is bonus points if it looks stock.

hehe getting way off topic sorry...

 

The recessed shape below the tops - around the sides - next to the skirts (going up - under the piston tops to save weight), is much lie the RC-51 Honda motorcycle pistons that we've used on a few builds!

By the way, those dark-colored inserts on the top ring groove - while certainly functional to help support the higher combustion chamber pressures and temperatures, is NOT steel. Well, should I rather say - they are not magnetic any way...

We're not concerned with it; we're going from a cast piston to a forged piston, so the increased strength is implied.

There's that same notch that the Alfa piston had too. You know what - those may be there to clear the bloody crank-webs; these are an 85.6mm stroke after all!

Also, noticed NO gas-ports behind the oil-rings on the 89mm Alfa versions, but they have them on the Camaro pistons stock (like we have on the Ross forgies)! These are NICE pistons - if only they were forged, they could become the standard big-bore upgrade part for us!

And again - Teflon-coated skirts to aid the break-in.

 

I do have to say the GM parts look nice. that cut out is a bit strange. I would have thought they would shaped in more and have less of a notch. I would think the overhang wedge right of the notch would be all wast and make for a weaker piston.

 

...and so much for the cooperative design efforts between Sweden, Germany, the US, the Italians and Australia - the GM pistons were made in Mexico!

 

Hi all
The math’s to separate these is in the algorithm macros
Say we are using sensors 6 and it is putting it’s position in variable #600.
Unclip reads and modifies this (#600 + ? = #6000)
You tell the algorithm for the Ignition to now look for #6000 instead while the injection & VTC is still looking for #600.
Much simplified but I hope you get my drift?

There is a company in Seattle, WA that has cracked the E69 (DI) ECM and is showing good gains.
Trifecta Performance Custom Tuning :: Home Page and News

Great Thread, Keep it coming

 

Answer to post #18
While reading up on opel versions of this engine which are 2.8 turbo that piston ring is a hard anodised coating rather than a insert.

 

Answer to post #18 While reading up on opel versions of this engine which are 2.8 turbo that piston ring is a hard anodised coating rather than a insert.

Thanks!

So, the first Brera big-bore conversion in the world was a huge success! Customer reportedly loves it; a nice extra punch, but it still feels like a factory road-car in terms of the drivability! Overall the power is up about 50 horses AT THE WHEELS over stock (that's more like 80 horses or so at the crank - up from the 260+ factory-rating!!!)

This was a 3.6 conversion running a marginal bump in compression, stock electronics and a piggy-back for fuel and ignition control and then more cam and a few other proprietary tricks... The port-designs are light-years ahead of the 164 / 156 / 166 / 147 ports, but there was power to be had there none-the-less!

The next new generation conversion is a 3.85 litre Brera-based core (with the bore increase now also combined with a stroker-crank.) The motor will be retrofitted to a mid-80's GTV6, running a works dog-leg H-pattern German 5-speed box upfront, the SEI (Sedan) diff at the back (like I now have on my 3.7 Milano at the rear too), but all on stand-alone engine-management fuel and timing!

The block design is nothing short of brilliant on this Global Motor. You have 6 studs and nuts on each main crank-cap, variable timing on all 4 cams, roller rockers on hydraulic lifters; 500 crank-horses from this thing in naturally aspirated mode with a minor bump to 12.0:1 compression is well-within reach and the block design can handle it just fine!

 

great work, i would love to see one of these going into a 116
do you know if the alfa heads are much differnt from the 'Holden' heads?

 

great work, i would love to see one of these going into a 116 do you know if the alfa heads are much differnt from the 'Holden' heads?

Alfa designed the heads, but they are built in Australia...

I am in the process of procuring a complete '09 / '10 Cadillac CTS 3.6 / '10 Camaro 3.6 motor to ship down to SA in order to take a closer look at differences between those heads and the Alfa 3.2 heads...

I'll have a more crisp answer down the line.

 

Wow how did i miss this thread?! :O nice work you guys have done there! that car must be pushing 225KW, thats bmw 335 territory hehe NICE. but geez i noticed you said 5mm bore increase! wouldnt you be bordering on the water ports then?? im guessing you use a nickel plating then but is it really reliable? sorry im not bashing your work, i just find it amazing that a car can be bored out this much....

 

Good afternoon. My name is Alex I'm from Moscow, Russia. You have had the experience to increase the volume of the engine on the Brera. Can you tell me how to do it? Now my Brera engine broke down because of the lack of oil in heavy rotation on the track. I want to do a 3.6 or 3.7 of this engine.
can you help me with this?