How about putting a complete Alfa Romeo 33 rear end in your Sud, complete with hand brake Virtually a bolt on job, with just a few mods that need to be done to the rear floorpan (for running hand brake cables) I know you've gone from Discs to drums, but at least it will work.....

The other idea I had was useing FWD Ford Laser (Aussie ver) rear disks with the hand brake mech, but alas I'll have to do some major mods....put that into the "oneday" job list! Also it has the benfit of changeing the stud pattern of the wheels to 100PCD instead of 98.....very important here if your after aftermarket wheels....(virtually impossible to get aftermarket wheels for a 33/sud/spint here)

Also of note:

I was talking to a bloke at the local yearly Alfa Show down here, Alfa's in Clover, he had a Alfa Romeo 33 (sr3) with a very intresting brake setup. Holden VL Turbo Calipers (same as Corvette) and Mitsubitishi Magna 3 Litre Discs (correct offset and size for the VL calipers).....looked very nice.

I can speak from experience how good the VL turbo brakes are since I've owned one Still since a Alfa 33 is so much lighter than a VL Turbo (1265kg vs 910kg) it should be a VERY effective brake setup.....

 

Thanks for the suggestions

I thought about a 33 rear end but I'd like to retain discs...I'll do it if I can find a late model 33 Nuovo to pilage as they had (or are supposed to have had rear discs)..

...as for putting Holden bits on my Alfa !?!

Cheers

 

Genius, How about you post a pic of the stock rear caliper & take measurements of the bolt holes, offset etc. I'll be going for a wander around a wrecking yard later on in the week, so I might keep an eye out on some rear calipers that ~might~ fit that have an integral handbrake.

 

Evil...nice to hear from you...

I'll have to get back to you on the measurements etc...I've got to get under the car again some time today ( sometines I think I should roll out my sleeping bag under the sodding thing!)...

I also may have come up with a solution...apparantly Mr Alfa in one of his more generous moments equipped one of the 33 models with rear discs ! (Thats the good bit)...now all I have to do is track down which model (the bad bit) and then transplant the entire rear end (the ugly bit)...

...either that or I have to have a good sit down and decide whether I pull the thing off the road permanently and just put a line-lock in the rear brake line !

Cheers

 

Genius,

Simply buy Alfetta GTV rear calipers ... bolt straight on the rear of an Alfa Sud. The only thing you require is some spacers, but the hole centres and offset are exactly the same ... I know I've don't the conversion.

You then need to work out how to get the handbrake to work ... I had special cables made, etc. ... I though could do a better job if I had to do this again, ie. it was not that good a handbrake ... , but that was my fault.

Pete
ps: Actually have you checked that the inboard front calipers do not simply bolt straight on to the rear axle? ... 'cause the Alfetta GTV rear calipers are very similar. Thus as you are replacing the front calipers you already have handbrake calipers spare ... even if hole centres and offsets are different, just get your angle grinder out and welder and sort it out

 

I am also looking at braking options for my Alfasud series 3 (hatch), and my brother's Alfasud series 1. The standard braking set up is already quite good, but the front handbrake cable is a total pain. I've tried a new cable, and 2 secondhand cables, and the handbrake still refuses to work properly.

The guy at Alfa's in Clover with the 33 16V thats got the holden brakes has a hydraulic handbrake configuration operating on rear Alfasud calipers/discs. The stock handbrake mechanism has been connected to a girling brake most without a resovior. I am pretty sure this set up it illegal in Australia, however it is not policed very well so most people get away with it

Using Alfetta GTV calipers with the cable mechanism certainly sounds like a decent idea, but making a cable to work could really be quite difficult. Modifying an Alfetta cable though may very well be the easiest way to go.

As for front brakes, I don't like the Holden idea at all! Ok, they probably do work quite well, but I just don't like floating calipers -sorry! I am thinking along the lines of installing Alfa 33 16V front suspension with the ventililated discs (get them cross drilled and slotted, about $50 per disc at a decent machine shop). I'll be fitting 15" Ronal A1 rims, so this will give me a bit more room for fitting bigger calipers. Two types I have in mind include Girling Volvo 240 4 pot calipers. These have been very commonly used on Alfetta's with fantastic results and can be obtained very cheaply from a lot of wreckers. Easy to rebuild as well. The other option is 4 pot calipers from an Alfa 156. I've heard this has been done, but I don't know if its true. I believe they are Brembos too! But which 156 models have 4 pot calipers? (I'm assuming only V6's and GTA's?). They will almost certainly require an adaptor to fit and quite expensive...

At one stage I nearly purchased a 2 piston Brembo brake set up from someone's racing Alfa Sprint. I chose not to because the discs were custom made = expensive to replace! Perhaps I should have though, the whole package was only $250Aus...

Anyone else have any further opinions/ideas?
Benjamin
(Adelaide, Au)

 

Gentlemen...you are a mine if information...

...I've been stumped as to how to go about this !! (Brakes are really not my strong suite...then again, neither are Alfas.. ...

Pete...I'm looking into stealing a 33 handbrake setup so getting the cables to work should in theory be a little easier than modifying the Suds (which I'm assuming you did)...The spacers shouldn't be too much of a problem either...I know some interesting people with access to some very hi-tech (CAD/CAM) milling machines...Do you remember the width?

Bud...The Volvo conversion is one I've seen before and I'm pretty sure that's the way I'm going to go (along with Alfa 33 vented discs...Unfortunately I'll be running 14" wheels so the clearances may be a little tight...Can you let me know how you go with your project (PM me)

Cheers guys

 

Mike J,

Will let you know how the brake conversion goes...

A tip for obtaining bigger rims for Alfa Romeos (in general). Some wheel refurbishing places will actually fit a bigger rim to the factory wheel insert. A friend of mine did this for his 105 series, upgraded from 14" to a 15" wheel. It looks stock, until you see the lower profile tyres! My brother plans to do with his series 1 'sud so that it looks original, to a point

Benjamin
(Adelaide, Au)

 

Pete...I'm looking into stealing a 33 handbrake setup so getting the cables to work should in theory be a little easier than modifying the Suds (which I'm assuming you did)...The spacers shouldn't be too much of a problem either...I know some interesting people with access to some very hi-tech (CAD/CAM) milling machines...Do you remember the width?

Sorry, no.

Pete

 

Thank you Gentlemen !

 

...as for putting Holden bits on my Alfa !?!

Cheers

I said the same thing when he wanted to do it to mine! He also wanted to change my hubs over to 100PCD so I could find better wheels easier... he suggested mitsubishi or something. Like I'd deface my alfa!

 

I said the same thing when he wanted to do it to mine! He also wanted to change my hubs over to 100PCD so I could find better wheels easier... he suggested mitsubishi or something. Like I'd deface my alfa!

And your the one who just got her Alfa Romeo 33 painted a AU Ford Falcon colour....(but it does look quite nice I do admit )

As for Volvo 4 Spot Calipers, yes they are quite good, and we've used them on several "kit" cars (Clubmans). However the main problem with them is that they are quite heavy....lots of unsprung weight is not good!

Also another thing of note, is Volvo 4 Spots will bolt in where VL Turbo calipers have been...eg the Bolt spaceing of the calipers is exactly the same....

Other "good" brake setups/conversions I've seen (not always on Alfa's) are Nissan R33 Skyline GTS-T 4 Spots (very nice!) but alas those brakes command quite a bit of dosh....

I still like the idea of useing 100PCD hubs for the rears off a Ford laser...Oh well! I've tracked down a nice set of 16" 4 Stud 100PCD wheels......

(then again she'll probably never let me touch the car again...)

 

Just a point ... Wilwood racing 4 pot calipers are not actually that expensive, so I assume are the competitors. Thus my point is make sure you are not paying too much for these production car parts, when you can get alloy racing calipers for only around $200NZ each ... if I remember right. Note this price was a few years ago.

Genius, I got the Wilwood calipers from a race shop in Auckland's Northshore. They mainly do sprintcar stuff ... but it is a good shop.

Pete

 

Searching ebay revealed a stack of Wilwood calipers including a lot of new items:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4536014371&category=46093
Above link shows a 4 pot caliper for a 1.25" rotor, with 3.5" bolt pattern.

Any idea if this will fit the Alfa 33 16" struts with minimal modifications? What is the width of the 16V vented brake rotor?

I need an Alfa 16V front end suspension set up, anyone in South Australia want to help out? Are the shocks the same dimensions for all Alfasud's and 33's? I don't really want to have to find another set of Koni yellows for the front...

Benjamin

 

(then again she'll probably never let me touch the car again...)

Well maybe... but atm I'm missig most of my dashboard without a clue how to put it back together.... But possibly not after that...lol

 

ps: Actually have you checked that the inboard front calipers do not simply bolt straight on to the rear axle? ... 'cause the Alfetta GTV rear calipers are very similar. Thus as you are replacing the front calipers you already have handbrake calipers spare ... even if hole centres and offsets are different, just get your angle grinder out and welder and sort it out

I looked at that today, since I have a spare disk brake rear end and several old Alfa Sud drivelines laying around out of cars. I didn't actually try it but they look like they will fit. Like you said you will have to make up sopme spacers with some M10 (or M12?) holes in them. The only problem I see is the brake lines, on the Sud calipers have a extra set of hydraulic lines that will have to be connected up. Not really a major problem just more to do...

As for Alfetta/Di-Dion rear brakes, did you have to do any mods to your rear beam axel around the sping pan area since the calipers extend back quite a long way? Or do the calipers *just* clear? Also when attached the GTV rear brake caliper is attached I noted that they stick out quite a bit further than the standard ones. How did you go clearing your wheels? Or did you make up some spacer plates?

Another thing of note, the bolt spaceing on Volvo 4 spot calipers is the same as Alfa 33 ones (all ATE you see). I didn't check the offset since I didn't have time, as my lunch breaks are not very long. Also I have a 16v Alfa 33 in the workshop at the moment budweiser_sud, I'll grab some measurements for you tomorrow morning....

 

Pete..

I know the shop, & I have a Wilwood catalog on my desk as we speak...so things aren't set in stone yet !!

Regards

 

As for Alfetta/Di-Dion rear brakes, did you have to do any mods to your rear beam axel around the sping pan area since the calipers extend back quite a long way? Or do the calipers *just* clear? Also when attached the GTV rear brake caliper is attached I noted that they stick out quite a bit further than the standard ones. How did you go clearing your wheels? Or did you make up some spacer plates?

The calipers did not foul/hit anything from memory. I also did not have to spacer the wheels out. I ran with the multiple fine spoke Sud 13" wheels ... should have upgraded to the telephone 33 14" wheels, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I also had to make up new brake lines and a lot of work with the handbrake, including a special cable.

Hydraulic handbrake is a heck of a lot easier ... but not legal.
Pete

 

O.K, I took some photos (well 1) of the two brake calipers you can use (that are cheap and easy to get...lol) for your Alfa 33. All of them bolt up to the Alfa 33 front hubs with no mods required. The only thing you really have to do is get a correctly sized rotor, offset it to your needs, and drill out the required stud pattern.

* The one to the left, is a Std Caliper of a 1.7 Serries 2 Alfa 33. This suits the vented rotors

* The one in the middle is off a Holden VL Commodore Turbo. (The spare set for my VL actually!) Suites vented rotors.

* The one on the right is a Volvo 4 Spot, to suit vented rotors

One thing you have to remember is that unsprung weight plays an important part in how a car handles. The less the better. The Alfa Sud with its inboard front brakes has very little unsprung weight on the front, while the Alfa 33 with its outboard brakes does not have this advantage.

The lightest of the three calipers pictured is the VL Turbo one. They are actually lighter than the standard alfa 33 1.7 caliper, but not by much. The most weighty of the three are the volvo ones, think around twice as heavy as the VL Turbo caliper!

Just a little info!

I'm leaning strongly in favor of the VL Turbo brakes (hey look then I can purchase the same pads for my Girlfriends car, as my car!)

Any other idea's?

 

brake upgrade

I've been fortunate enough to have "found" some GTV rear callipers (actually I walked into a mates workshop & he had a spare set in a box !!)..I'll do some experimenting and see what size spacers are needed & post the results...I gotta tell you though, they are pretty substantial !

Then sheer weight of these things makes me think more about a hydraulic set-up...(Pete, I've done some digging & found out I can run a hydraulic with an MSA card)

...Now, if only I had more time to do all this !!