[33Stradale67]

Hello All. my 1st post here.

I've been a fan of the Stradale for a long time but I have always been confused by the different variants of the car until I've read such forums like the one here and other materials I was able to gather on the internet, and there are many. The most important of these materials are undoubtedly period photography that either help ascertain how the car looked like right after production and find out pictures of cars whom we haven't got much information (such as chassis 110, 118 etc).

So for my 1st post, I'll be making an educated guess.

There have been a few pictures of the mysterious production stradale with a top mounted windshield wiper. Based on the attached pics and the pictures we know from prototype 01 (Galleria Abarth) and 012 (Museo Storico), I will guess that this is production car #1 or chassis 750.33.101.

The reasons for this guess?
1- The top mounted windshield wiper can only be on a =n early production model. Chassis 102 and 103 already have a bottom mounted windshield wiper. Therefore it can only be chassis 101
2- The non-opening side windows (see cropped pic)
3- The early shape for the cabin air intake
4- The u shaped chrome trim starting from the headlight going on top of the air intake (chassis 102 has a similar trim, but even bigger)
5- No side marker next to the headlight: export model.

Based on these, this could be chassis 101.

 

[33Stradale67]

What is the mysterious Stradale from the Movie "A bellissimo Novembre"

Hello all. There's been a bit of a debate in this forum about what car was the star of the 1969 "A bellissimo Novembre". Some say it was prototype 01, others prototype 02 (chassis 112) and others say it's prototype 01 with prototype 02 rear deck.

The right answer is IMO the latter based on screenshots from the movie...

First of all, it can only be either prototype 01 or 02 as the car in the movie has 4 headlights (VS 2 for the production version). And since the movie was released in 1969, this excludes the possibility of a replica car.

Secondly, let's look at what makes 01 different from 02:
1- roof mounted windshield wiper: prototype 2 has a regular mounted wiper
2- chrome levers to open the front bonnet and rear deck (see photos), prototype 02 does not have any.
3- One piece side window for prototype 01 (02 has a sliding perspex window).

Attached screenshots of the car from the movie and we can both see these unique elements.

However, when we look at the rear deck we see a single large boot vent on the top of the deck and a 2-piece rear fender vent, which is exactly the rear deck of prototype 02.

It was said in the forum that it made no sense and it would be complicated to remove the rear deck of 02 to put it on 01, but as the Sport Auto magazine test showed, the rear deck can be removed fairly easily to install the measuring wheel. Also there may be a reason to switch the rear deck from prototype 02 to put it on 01: maybe the rear deck of 01 was damaged in a fender-bender and they had to use 02's rear deck for the shoot? We will probably never know the truth but photographic evidence clearly shows that the car is 01 with 02's rear deck.

Photos in order: 01 at the Paris Auto Show. Front ant rear lever details of that car. Screenshots from the movie showing the levers, rear view of the movie car showing 02 rear deck.

 

[33Stradale67]

More screenshots of the movie showing the top mounted wiper, singe piece side window and rear deck of 02

 

[33Stradale67]

Your logic is fine but it is not certainly 750.33.101. 101, the first production car, was sold to Henry Wessells brand new, than it was Kirk White's, Michael Ryan's and Keith Goring's car. Now it is in Belgium. It is single headlight version with windows opening system, and its history is among best known 33 Stradale stories.

Interesting. Would you have an idea of what this mysterious car would be?

 

[33Stradale67]

33stradale67...I started this thread if you look at the first page and was interested in exactly the identity of the 33 stradale in the film "un belissimo novembre" and I included the filmclip from which you have taken screenshots above to show in photos.
I believe that car is the original prototype car made by Alfa Romeo and is exactly the same as photos illustrating the car in period in books I have and on the PAris Auto show stand, a photo of which you have posted here.
I agree also that Alfa Romeo could have changed the rear or indeed any part of the car as part of development of the styling or for practical mechanical purposes; the two vents on the side of the movie car and the single vent above the rear are different to the prototype on photos in books I have which have no side vents and 4 separate vents above...but I have read that Alfa 33 stradale when being developed had problems with overheating and so those vents on top were made bigger and the side ones added....could have been the same car as the prototype in my books with the 4 fours top vents and no side vents which makes sense.
In any case the car in the movie and the one in the books I have (which are exactly the same apart from the rear vents is very different from the Alfa 33 stradale in the museum which has different front grille, no windscreen wiper, no rearview mirrors on the front wings, no alloy catch to open the front hood, and in my opinion ugly gold painted wheels. The tipo 33 book I believe mentions the museum one as the prototype with the correct numbers but it is not appealing like the one in the movie. Of course Alfa Romeo could have altered the original one in my books, which then became the movie car and it is now what stands in the Alfa Romeo museum but personally I have my doubts. Until the 1980s the museum cars were swapped and bought and maybe the movie car is still in some "private from the media" collection. Then there are the Giordanengo replica/hybrids using mostly the correct parts to confuse matters still more. I remember a 4 headlamp replica of the prototype being auctioned in the 1990s in Switzerland I believe.

IMO, it can only be prototype 01 with prototype 02 rear deck in the movie as both are very distinctive cars. Here are pics of 01 now at the Galleria Abarth which shows her original rear deck... In 1969 Alfa Romeo had both prototypes 1 and 2 and could easily have swapped body parts... It would be fascinating if 01 and 02 were reunited and see if 02's deck would fit 01 body...

 

[33Stradale67]

Another mysterious Stradale.

Would anybody ascertain which Stradale this one is. It does not look like a replica...

 

[33Stradale67]

More pics. Distinctive features are single pantoscopic wiper, wind-up windows and side repeater inside the headlights housing. Looks definitely like export model... Chassis 103 has a similar side marker, but sliding window.

 

[33Stradale67]

So I suppose this is 101, based on the details?

 

[33Stradale67]

33stradale67...thanks for sharing those photos but that Alfa Romeo Stradale prototype in the Abarth Museum (number 1 or 2?) in the words of indiana jones "should be in a museum", the correct Alfa Museum! The Abarth Galleria is a private owned gallery which also contains the Alfa Romeo Canguro prototype which also should have been in the Alfa Museum! As I said lots of alfas were swapped or sold when the museum and alfa were underfunded.
As I mentioned the tipo 33 book says the first prototype is the one in the Alfa museum but that is without all the details of the Abarth Gallery one much less pretty.
That 30's racing alfa dark red of the single headlamp car looks to have all new mechanical components (is that a modern alternator in the engine bay?) with a stainless steel exhaust so maybe a replica and maybe a modified original. IT shares the garage with what looks like a 1930s alfa 8c. Maybe the same owner wished the same colour on the 33 stradale. Never seen one in that colour anyhow.

Unfortunately, many important cars belong in private hands, especially in the 1970's and 80's when manufacturers commonly sold those cars... I agree that 01 should be back at the Alfa museum, but because it is such as historical car I doubt that its Japanese owner will sell it. And if he sells it would Alfa Romeo pay $10+ Million for it?

 

[33Stradale67]

...just looked at the thread and overlooked info already posted that the musem car is a replica made in the 1970s

Museum car is NOT a replica. Chassis 112 is the 2nd prototype started under Franco Scaglione with a competition chassis (shorter wheelbase than the production cars) at Autodelta and was left incomplete when Scaglione left Alfa Romeo. It was supposed to be a racing version of the Stradale. It was completed in 1968 by Autodelta.

visit the site robertlittle.us/stradalehistoryenglish for more information...

Attached pic of 02 in the Sydney auto show in September 1968.

 

[33Stradale67]

33stradale67 ...agreed! However what induced Alfa Romeo to sell important cars like the 33 stradale prototype and and the Canguro. It seems nonsense especially as those cars were of little material value in the 1980s but without precedence in terms of importance. I mean I wager the 33 stradale was sold for very little money. I believe the German auto museums have all their most significant cars and it is a pity the history of the Alfa museum from the 1970s until recently regarding its cars, which until recently were not protected against unneccessary sales as already mentioned! With values soaring of classic cars (although it must burst at some time) and FCA not getting dividends from Alfa just yet in hard cash I doubt whether as you say they would wish to rebuy the car and I doubt it would be for sale anyway! Anyway there is always hope...

The Germans have plenty of important cars in private hands.

Some examples:

Posrche: 917K Chassis 023: 1st win at Le Mans for Porsche in 1970: belongs in private collection
Mercedes 300 SL Competition Coupe: Chassis: 000 07/52. 1952 Le Mans winner : belongs to an American collector.

Best.

 

[33Stradale67]

Hello 33Stradale67.
I would be pleased if you have some more information of the that tipo 33 from Sydney auto show in September 1969

Not much information so far but I'm looking... I will let you know if I find something...

In the meanwhile you can add these period pics of prototype 02 is you don't have them yet ;-)

It's funny to see that the left headlight is positively lower than the right (from the facing picture) is you compare to the air intake. Definitely a hand made body!

 

[33Stradale67]

Thank you 33Stradale67 ,
it could be nice with some information about the Alec Mildrens car. It is one of the open questions, that still has none questions answered about its history.
As you are from the southern hemisphere, you my know something, or you can find out something regarding chassis 750.33.107. It was up for sale for some years ago from New Zeeland.
The Storico tipo 33 stradale, is a well-known car. And there isn’t much news to tell about it.
It is generaly known as a replica in Europa.

I don't believe Prototype 02 was a replica as I'm quite certain that it is the Sydney show car... I will need to complete research on this and find more pictures but the photographic evidence points to this: We all know that 01 is in Osaka, Japan and appears completely unmodified to the car presented at Monza on August 31st 1967: top mounted windshield wipers, apparent levers to open the rear deck and front section of the car, one-piece fixed windows etc... The car in Sydney has a bottom mounted windshield wiper, sliding windows and no levers to open the front section or rear section. It can then only be 02. At this time in 1968, there was no such thing as a "replica". Attached are 2 pics taken at approximately the same angle and you can see that both cars are exactly the same except for the aluminium scudetto and baguette trim (which is easily replacable)

And if Carlo Chiti says that 2 prototypes were made at Autodelta, there's no reason to contradict him.

 

[33Stradale67]

I will repeat, once more, for the benefit of true enthusiasts of Alfa Romeo history few simple facts. The car in the Arese museum with VIN 105.33.12 is authentic, original car, completed in the Autodelta spaces in 1967 by shape masters Carnovali and Scussat under personal supervision of Franco Scaglione. The body was modelled in aluminium over the wooden shape produced by Giovanni Raniero from Orbassno, and the panels were provided by Saracino e Lingua from Druento. The second car was relatively lightened version with openings in rear fenders, repositioned wiper and some more small differences from the already completed 105.33.01 prototype, in testing at Balocco circuit. This car was probably used for the “Un bellissimo novembre” film as director, Mauro Bolognini was from Pistoia and same age as Carlo Chiti, and they knew each other from the school days, and Bolognini has needed exotic car for his movie. The car was restored in few occasions, as all Stradale examples through time, and searching the identic details on the cars in various period photos has no sense. They were changed often and in numerous details. The example from the Arese museum is in its beautiful shape thanks to Giovanni Giordanengo, and other Italian masters, capable of high and reliable restoration. To control the authenticity of the car (and this story) you can consult Centro Documentazione Alfa Romeo at centrodocumentazione@alfaromeomuseo.com , involving Dott. Lorenzo Ardizio o Dott. Marco Fazio, as they are official experts for all the questions dealing with Alfa Romeo.
Despite the statement of the ”expert” 2000 touring sp written in his usual moronic English, I have to assure you that no person out of Alfa Romeo official stuff, ever examined Arese museum car and his statement is pure invention. If he is trying to accuse intentionally Arese museum or any of us for spreading fake statements, he must reveal his name and sign his accuse. Otherwise it is only heap of bull***t.

Other pieces of evidence that seem to point out that the Arese museum stradale prototype is indeed original. Scan from Automobiles Classiques (november 1989) article on the stradale. The photo of prototype 02 is referenced as being taken in January 1968. Attached same photo in colour + another photo from Alfa Romeo's archive of the car taken at the same time... Check the road sign on the right.

This seems to debunk that prototype 02 was made in the 1970's...

 

[33Stradale67]

Museum cars VIN

33 Stradale prototipo 105.33.12 engine without number
Carabo 105.33.750.35107 engine AR00564*00172
Iguana 105.33.750.35109 engine AR10564*00174
Cuneo 750.33108 engine AR008
Navajo 33.00001 engine AR00564*00241


33 Daytona 750033.012 engine 20*102
33/3 Le Mans 75080-003 engine 30 0040
33 TT 12 #1 11512.006 engine 115.12A061
33 TT 12 #2 11512.010 engine without number
33 SC 12 Sovralimentata 33SC12.009 engine without number


Most of the cars in the Museum are special or preproduction, their VIN numbers do not match with production cars.
33 Stradale can not be a replica. As I know Fusi built few replicas of pre Second World War cars in late 70s (Tipo A, Castagna Ricotti). Alfa had 33 Stradale in the collection even before 1976 when the Museum was opened. Most of the Museum cars are part of the old collection, just take a look at Il Quadrofoglio Number 1 or period press.

If the car is a replica what is the evidence?

I agree completely. Some have said that the museum Stradale is a replica but never actually given evidence that it was a replica. The photographic evidence that I offered seems to point out that 002, the car at the Museo Storico was already in existence as early as 1968 (photo from the Sydney Motor Show for example). I am currently in contact with Franco Scaglione's daughter Giovanna and asked her if she has information about prototype 02 so this replica matter can be debunked once and for all.

 

[33Stradale67]

Two more photos from Un Bellissimo Novembre set. Strange mix from both known shapes of four light models. It must be considered that parts (bonnets) could be easily exchanged from car to car.

It is clear to me based on photographic evidence (see post #180) that the car in "Un Bellissimo Novembre" is indeed prototype 01, with prototype 02's rear deck as this part can be easily removed as per the Auto Motor und Sport road test...

 

[33Stradale67]

Giovanna Scaglione, Franco Scaglione's daughter, has confirmed that 2 prototypes were started under him at Settimo Milanese. The second one, the Museo Storico chassis 12, was finished in 1968 at Marazzi after he left the project. Case closed about the conspiracy theory about chassis 12 being a replica.

 

[33Stradale67]

The myth of the "fake" Stradale at the Museo Storico debunked by Giovanna Scaglione

Here you can find a beautiful article on Franco Scaglione with testimony by his daughter Giovanna and reading down to part VII, the genesis of the 33 Stradale, Scaglione's last masterpiece.

Autodelta Golden Years History Site

One sentence can sum it all: "Chronologically, Scaglione personally completed his cars in this order: first vehicle 105.33.01 'four headlight version' at Autodelta; his second vehicle was 750.33.101 at Marazzi; the third vehicle was started at Autodelta in Settimo Milanese and completed as 105.33.12 in May 1968 at Marazzi...almost two months after Scaglione had been 'fired' by Autodelta in March of 1968 ! "

 

[33Stradale67]

I note that some people have been asking about chassis '750.33.107' which was up for sale many years ago from New Zealand. I recently came to know the former New Zealand owner and he has shared with me many photographs of the car from when it arrived in NZ mid 1983. Clearly, and in many ways, it was not a Stradale but rather a T33/2 'Daytona' albeit with some parts from other cars including the bonnet which had headlights and air vents reminiscent of a Stradale. Notations on the back of several photographs indicate chassis number 73 33 007 which is consistent with the numbering of the race cars series, not the Stradale.

The car left NZ in 1988 or 1989, still unrestored, and the NZ owner subsequently lost track of it. We have recently learned however that it was restored to competition trim by Paul Lanzante and sold by Kidston auction house in 2011. Details can be found on the website Kidston - Sold Cars

So, the whereabouts of Stradale chassis 750.33.107 seems to remain a mystery.

This is how 75033.007 looks now: Kidston - Sold Cars

Attached at the 1968 Monza 1000km.

 

[33Stradale67]

Help identify this stradale, no, it's not #102

I've been trying for a long time to identify this stradale, which like #102 has the front grill full width "moustache" of early stradales. Only this car and #102 have this element. On the other hand #102 has features that are different from this car:

1- normal winding windows (this one has sliding windows)
2-marazzi logo near the side air intakes
3-engine cover with apparent fasteners (near the side air intakes)
4- Interior in dark brown (or black)/light brown leather (Seats)

Attached photos of the mystery stradale.