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Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited)
I just spoke to the mechanic I got the sign from and he told me he bought the sign from Patrick Motors in Worcester Massachusetts (USA), a factory authorized Alfa Romeo dealer who also sold Saabs and other makes. He said the sign was double-sided and hung outside the dealership. I do not see a photo of it in the article below that I found about the dealership but when Patrick closed the Alfa Romeo franchise, he bought the sign from them. He sold off one side of the sign and hung the other against the face of his own shop. Then when Alfa Romeo left the US in the mid 90s he was asked to take the sign down. What he did instead was remove the face from the sign and had a new plain flat face made with his own business name.


When I got the sign he gave me the remaining face he had removed and I had to take the housing off the building, still with the replacement plain face he put on it. I have since moved the side with his name to the back of the housing and put the Alfa face on the front with the hinge.

I asked about the possibility the sign was not issued by Alfa Romeo given the discrepancy in font with other Alfa signs of the period, he thought it was a ridiculous question and pointed to the fact that Patrick was a factory-authorized Alfa Romeo dealer and that was the sign he had in front of his dealership the entire time he sold Alfas. As far as he is concerned, that is the sign Alfa Romeo issued to Patrick.

I love history like this, especially the period photos. Great stuff.
 
I asked about the possibility the sign was not issued by Alfa Romeo given the discrepancy in font with other Alfa signs of the period, he thought it was a ridiculous question
Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.

It is extremely unlikely—if not impossible—that a factory would issue an official sign with this evident discrepancy with the official emblem.

Condsidering aso it's not in rleief, the most reasonable explanation is that this is a custom part made by someone, possibly to replace a broken item.

Of course, you are free to believe it is original, but if you want to convince me (and likely others), it is up to you to prove that the sign is authentic. And a period photo of this specific sign would not be a proof.
 
Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.

It is extremely unlikely—if not impossible—that a factory would issue an official sign with this evident discrepancy with the official emblem.

Condsidering aso it's not in rleief, the most reasonable explanation is that this is a custom part made by someone, possibly to replace a broken item.

Of course, you are free to believe it is original, but if you want to convince me (and likely others), it is up to you to prove that the sign is authentic. And a period photo of this specific sign would not be a proof.
Exactly!
I completely agree.
That insignia has nothing original and/or official, neither in the design nor in the structure.
Of course, everyone is free to believe whatever they want...
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
It doesn’t really matter but what I think (fanciful thinking here) is that Patrick had the sign made for his official dealership because that’s the font he preferred. No one will mistake that sign for anything but Alfa Romeo. The mechanic was in a position to know the dealership well (he worked at another local dealership) and if tells me that this is the sign Patrick had the whole time then that’s what was there regardless of how it got there.

Look at this one for example with the way the man in the snake’s mouth is depicted, are there others like that or someone’s fanciful interpretation of that component.

 
I have this old dealer sign hanging in my garage. Long retired Alfa mechanic I got it from says it was made in the 60s and he got it from a closed dealership in the early 70s and hung it outside his shop until Alfa left the US and requested that all dealers take down their signs.

What is peculiar about this sign is that the Alfa Romeo name is in script rather than the typical block letters on every other circular sign I have seen. Has anyone seen one like mine?

The thing is 4-feet in diameter and weighs at least 300 pounds. It was clearly designed to hang outside.

View attachment 1872262
Very interesting... I have had this sign in my shop longer than i can remember. Not sure where it came from but i am in MA so it does track with your source. Clearly it is the same design.
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Discussion starter · #27 ·
Now that’s the most interesting thing that’s likely to happen to me today! Your sign is probably the missing side of my once two-sided sign. The retired Alfa mechanic that gave me my sign a few months ago told me he sold the other face when he first got it decades ago because he wanted to hang the sign against his building rather than free standing as designed.

I am in Massachusetts as well. I’ve reached out to Patrick Motors to see if they have a photo of the sign from their Alfa Romeo days.

I’ll PM you.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
I communicated with KTR privately and it turns out the picture he posted of his sign is just one face of a complete sign in their possession, which means that mine is not a one-off. That make investigating who, when, where and why that much more interesting -- just for the fun of it.
 
I visited the museum in Milano last summer, where they have a display of the evolution of the official marque, including a fascinating video; I’ll attempt to share below. None depicted, from 1910 to 2015, used the script in your sign. That said, I agree with others: yours is beautiful, and I’d be happy to have it in my garage!

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Here is the video, in three parts:



 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
I visited the museum in Milano last summer, where they have a display of the evolution of the official marque, including a fascinating video; I’ll attempt to share below. None depicted, from 1910 to 2015, used the script in your sign. That said, I agree with others: yours is beautiful, and I’d be happy to have it in my garage!

View attachment 1873086

View attachment 1873087
You are absolutely correct. I too have never seen one in this format and I’m fairly familiar with Alfa Romeo history and cars and have visited the museum in Arese as well. What strikes me as a bit odd is why anyone would go through the expense to produce this sign in script when it would have been just as easy to use the correct block letters. Surely they knew what the sign should look like. Looking at the details of it’s construction it couldn’t have been cheaper to make compared to just buying an existing official sign. I know an official dealer used this sign so why not use an official sign? The explanation that persists with me is that whoever made this intentionally wanted it this way, in cursive script rather than block, presumably because they like the look better. Then there’s the question that arises with knowing there are at least two of them made (mine and KTR’s). Were both made for the same dealer or did another dealer get the design from the same sign maker?

I found a 123-page branding guidelines document from 2015 to help dealers adhere to corporate branding when locally making literature, exhibition signs, etc. It raises the question if dealer signs fell under those guidelines — meaning that a dealer could have a sign made locally to Alfa Romeo guidelines. This is a question not a statement of fact.

A statement about how Ferrari dealer signs are made by a BaT user who appears to know about these things caught my eye recently.

Author: Autorizzato
Comment:
5. Sign manufacturers. Since the 1990’s, Ferrari has not exclusively used one or two sign manufacturers to produce their brand logos/advertising and that has to also be said for a lot of the marketing materials as well. Neon Modena was the official sign manufacturer for a number of special pieces, especially up until the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. Signs such as the 48” vacuum formed plastic insignia (my personal favourite) and the various square shaped identity signs (service, parts, workshop, parking and pay desk) that were seen at virtually all Ferrari dealers in the 1980’s were all made exclusively by Neon Modena. That can’t be said for more dealer bespoke pieces, especially in the U.S. as I am well aware of a number of dealers who used local and national companies to produce their showroom branding.

Images from 2015 Alfa branding guidelines…

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I have this old dealer sign hanging in my garage. Long retired Alfa mechanic I got it from says it was made in the 60s and he got it from a closed dealership in the early 70s and hung it outside his shop until Alfa left the US and requested that all dealers take down their signs.

What is peculiar about this sign is that the Alfa Romeo name is in script rather than the typical block letters on every other circular sign I have seen. Has anyone seen one like mine?

The thing is 4-feet in diameter and weighs at least 300 pounds. It was clearly designed to hang outside.

View attachment 1872262
Buongiorno, che auto è quella azzurrina.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I have this old dealer sign hanging in my garage. Long retired Alfa mechanic I got it from says it was made in the 60s and he got it from a closed dealership in the early 70s and hung it outside his shop until Alfa left the US and requested that all dealers take down their signs.

What is peculiar about this sign is that the Alfa Romeo name is in script rather than the typical block letters on every other circular sign I have seen. Has anyone seen one like mine?

The thing is 4-feet in diameter and weighs at least 300 pounds. It was clearly designed to hang outside.

View attachment 1872262
Buongiorno, che auto è quella azzurrina.
Maserati Mexico.
 
I've had a rotating collection of plastic dealer signage for european cars and my father was a sales represenitve for Alfa in the 70's in the mid-atlatic and south east responsible for dealer setup. I know as far as he was concerned he would not have given a dealer a hard time about a properly made and quality sign at a dealer such as yours.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
I've had a rotating collection of plastic dealer signage for european cars and my father was a sales represenitve for Alfa in the 70's in the mid-atlatic and south east responsible for dealer setup. I know as far as he was concerned he would not have given a dealer a hard time about a properly made and quality sign at a dealer such as yours.
Do you know if dealers received their signs directly from Alfa Romeo or could they make the sign using a regional sign maker to Alfa’s specifications?

Picture of the sign lit up.

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