[iachella]

OK, I think I have my question answered. I have no space problems, since my TS is already in my Alfetta. I have at least 3 inches from the back of the head to the firewall. I think that is plenty of room with which to devise a solution that doesn't look like a medical contraption is coming out of every orifice and then some.

So what does the actual 155 rear housing or thermostat look like and where does it point? Anyone have a picture. If I have 3 inches of clearance back there, would the stock piece be feasible?

If not, I like the last shot you provided with a fitting in the back taking up just a coulple of inches and going out to the side of the engine and connecting to your log pipe that is tucked under the intakes and secured to the engine block. That is what I will probably procede to do when I get a 155 head.

What intake manifold is that? Is it stock 155 or something else? Are there any other differences to the 75 head that we should know?

I really appreciate the answers I'm seeing here. So far it is the most comprehesive look at the 155 head we've seen. Thanks for all the input and pictures.

 

[Guest]

some prints from the 2005 parts book showing the plumbing for the 155.

 

[Guest]

front and rear of heads

1st photo is rear of both heads, no dist mount in 155 head, 2nd is front of 75 head, shows VVT and dist mounts, 3rd is 155 head no VVT or dist mount and Fiat stamping. Inserts for front of 155 head are similar to nord rear inserts. but larger part # 605-67581

 

[Guest]

155 intake

1st photo shows VVT is part of intake manifold, the second shows the "soft" pockets, injectors are at bottom of runner spraying on the valves, an emission application, as opposed to injector at top of runner for performance. the 3rd photo shows the back of the manifold, should be easy to "fab" a new one, HOWEVER! the 75 head as the intake ports enter the head has #2 intake angled to #1 and #3 intake angled to #4, this allows a 90mm center to center carb mount, the excess gap is between 2 and 3 cyl and shows up at the linkage between the carbs. The 155 head has ALL intake tracts straight out of the head and if you fabricate you'll adapt this.

 

[Guest]

75 intake

1st photo is the 75 intake side and manifold, shows the water passage, next 2 phots show the spacing difference between the 155 head #2 and the 75 #3, the fuel rail is not interchangable, supports are wrong and spacing is also wrong, Cjheck out www.teglerizer.com/fi/index.html for nice article on constructing a FI manifold.

 

[Dr.G]

This is what I'm doing:

Jim Steck told me not to worry about cooling out the top as I'm not on the Bonneville Salt Flats.

 

[iachella]

Just got back from a week in Hawaii. I'm digesting these pictures and going back and forth from the 7/8/2007 pics and 7/9 pics. I have a few questions that might get answered by some more comparing pictures. But the first thing that I can't figure out is why the 75 injector rail is being measured against the 155 injector holes. Why would that rail be considered on the 155. Is there anything wrong with the 155 rail?

Some comparisons seem to be with carbs in mind, and I'm not interested in carbs for such a high tech head. How about the 155 intake manifold and 155 fuel rail? Any problems with it? Do they angle up too high to fit in the RWD cars? I'm doing an Alfetta, so I have a little more space to play with.

Again, reasons for the substitutions are more helpful, since not everyone is putting these into GTVs and Spiders. If the issue is space, let us know so we can try to compare the clearance. I own a GTV, so I can look at both engine compartments side-by-side and figure out if a certain part will or will not fit.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

the head in the photos did not come with the 155 fuel rail, if you want to use the 155 fuel rail you might want to specify that when you purchase the head, I just wanted to point out that they are not interchangable. However, if you are using the weber mount Throttle bodies, the fuel rail is part of the unit. I wonder if Dr. G's intake manifold is curved for hood clearance? It looks as if the stock intake manifold angle would put the throttle or carbs higher than the valve cover. Curving to level right off the head, rather than off the end of the stock intake manifold might mean clearance.

 

[iachella]

OK, I see. Now a question for Dr. G.: In your setup with the "T" above your elbows, wouldn't you want more capacity than just one row of (I'm assuming) 1/2 inch tube? Usually, what comes out of an engine is 1.75 or 2.0" radiator hose. Shouln't your three elbows pipe into once single log that is larger in diameter?

Also, did you have to drill the three holes, or are there some plugs that uncrew? I see in some of alfa of-corse's pics that there could be some casting plugs that are simply unscrewed?

 

[iachella]

Also, any links to intake manifold options? The one from Dr. G above is from Alfaholics, I think? Maybe someone else? I'd like to do idividual throttle bodies for sure, and possibly attach the Spica throttle bodies to some sort of manifold.

Dr. G's seems to come out horizontally instead of angling up, like alfa of-course noticed. Does the air flow take a sharp bend downward with that? Do the 'soft pockets' in the head just get covered up and are unused space? Is that a performance problem with the flow?

It would be nice to use the stock manifold and attach some sort of ITB to it, but it might end up too high. An attachment that turns level to the horizontal would be nice. That might end up to be custom fabrication, so I'd like to see what all is availble first.

 

[Dr.G]

Jim Steck Manifold on my 155 head, Iachella

Not Alfaholics. Jim and I talked about exhausting the water, and he didn't think it would be a problem, just exiting it out the side. He exhausts it out the top with his turbo engine, but that's a lot more heat remember.The rear water exhaust on the head is about the same level remember on the front wheel drive cars, as in the car it came out of in Europe. I'm a little tied up with the house and the white duetto right now to say anything more, sorry. Just got a load of cedar trim boards. I'd be using redwood if I was down in Concord.
Wes

 

[iachella]

Wes, I hear you about the house. I'm about to start a total kitchen remodel all by myself in a week or two. I won't be doing much of anything during that. Try to write a little from time to time, though. Since you own a head and are preparing it, you have knowledge that would be helpful.

I see from the diagrams of the rear thermostat, that it goes out toward the exhaust side, so I don't think I want to use that. It looks like it would fit fine in my Alfetta though. I think I'll procede with making a housing for the rear with an outlet pointing toward the intake and plumb it into a pipe that runs along under the intakes, like one of those pictures.

I made a mistake on size on my previous post. It seems that most radiator hoses are either 1.25 or 1.5", not 1.75 or 2". I still think I would not make a return pipe any smaller than 1.25". I'll now need to find someone who can work with aluminum as I've begun drawing up a rear housing for the water exit. I've started with a large triagle flat piece with bolt holes at each corner, then a weld of a semi-sphere to one side, and then a weld of a 1.25" tube toward the intake side of the head. It's just a pencil drawing now. If I can get it into a file, I'll post it for comments.

 

[Dr.G]

Rear port

I will be putting the TS in the duetto and I was told, but did not see for myself, that there isn't enough room. The engine and tranny have to go in so I can see.

 

[damoj]

So what's the latest with this thread? Do we think this head would work on an old 105 2L block? Is there more to be done with figuring out the coolant routing? I guess I really just like the interchangeability of things and I have been following this thread with much interest.

 

[iachella]

In order to fit this to a Nord block, you need to pay attention to everything that is said here AND pay attention to everything said in the discussions of putting a 75TS head on a Nord block. That has been documented somewhere on this BB and to make the head fit, you need to either use 75TS studs or counter sink the bores, since the studs of the Nord are too short (or the TS heads are too tall).

There is much discussion on which rods and pistons to use, as there are some differences there, and I must admit, I could not follow that discussion. I got somewhat lost as to the rods being 1mm to short, or 3mm too tall, and the pistons being too short, or something. I figure if I were to ever do that, I'll revisit that discussion and study it carefully.

As for the water, I believe the results for my satisfaction, is that if I put it in an Alfetta, I have plenty of room behind the head and I will fabricate a housing out of aluminum with a bleed valve and exit the water that way. I'll route it to the front under the intakes, and use an inline thermostat near the water pump and back into the radiator.

If you put it into a 105 Bertone, then you don't have all that much room behind the head and you will have to use the frankenstien tubes.

I wanted to revisit this thread for how best to route intake tubes and air box. I wanted to use ITB and a programmable FI system. A Spica ITB or Gotechs ones might work, but the angle of the intakes going upward also worries me as to what type of Box will work.

How does this sound: An inverted Spica airbox so that the intake tubes exit the box on the top. The bulk of the box will hang below where the tubes exit the box. Some sheet metal will have to be modified to draw the air from the front again.

"It's so crazy it just might work."

 

[damoj]

I was thinking of putting a TS motor in my Berlina, or maybe just the head. I think there might be more room between the engine and the firewall on the berlina than there is on the GTV, but I don't know for sure. I know there is more head room.

 

[Guest]

i think on the pistons and rods, just make sure that they are a matched set from the same style motor. BUT! don't nord pistons have too much dome for a TS head?. Hood clearance is a problem, the oil cap relocated ala 250/330 style, and the 116 motor mount, can't make up for the higher inake tract required for the 155 head. I might get curcified for this one, but. the solution here is the same solution that Alfa used in the 101's. A guila spider hood "hood scoop" mated to a 105 spider hood. I don't have fiberglass or composite skills sufficient to make up any extras.

 

[damoj]

Do you say there isn't enough room for the intake because they angle up at about 45Deg from the head?

I wonder if my berlina would have the room necessary for the intake runner. I have a set of GSXR750 throttle bodies that I have spaced out to Weber DCOE bolt pattern. I wonder, since they are so short, if they would work.

 

[damoj]

I checked the distance between the head and the firewall on my berlina, and I have a good 2.5 inches. Probably more. So I think there is room enough for the coolant part of this head. The next thing to check would be clearance for the intake manifold/system. It looks like I have 8 inches from the rear of the valve cover to the hood. I need to check the front, but I think it is a good 3 inches at least, maybe more.

 

[iachella]

Do you say there isn't enough room for the intake because they angle up at about 45Deg from the head?

Yes, they angle up like that and the head is pretty close to the hood in my Alfetta. Infact, the front of the valve cover was touching my hood and I had to cut a little away.

It looks like I have 8 inches from the rear of the valve cover to the hood.

If you are measuring a Nord head, it will not help. The TS head is quite a bit taller. I guess if one knew exactly how much taller, one could calculate after measuring. I haven't heard of what the difference in height is.

Alfa of-course - do you have a Nord and a TS head next to each other in your shop you could measure?

I'm curious about that Steck manifold earlier. Wes, how does the air flow through it. Does it take a sharp bend as it enters the head?