Starter won't start. Any words of wisdom as I start the process of replacing? I've read what I can in the posts. I'm reading remove from top, remove from bottom? Either way, how much plumbing and wires has to come out to clear things?
Rondogger
It’s fairly easy to get out. I used a very long extension that put the ratchet by the spica unit to get the back bolt. Worked like a charm. And yes, disconnect the battery!
Best advice is try to test it in-situ before you unbolt anything. Try hot-wiring the solenoid direct to the battery to check that the fault isn't in your 40-50 year old Italian wiring.
I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a new starter motor and found that it doesn't work either because the fault is in the ignition switch or a voltage drop between the switch and the solenoid. This is VERY common by the way, I'd recommend fitting a separate relay and a heavy duty cable to the solenoid.
If it does need to come out, you won't get at it from underneath so it's a "top-down" job.
I've lost count of the number of people who've bought a new starter motor and found that it doesn't work either because the fault is in the ignition switch or a voltage drop between the switch and the solenoid. This is VERY common by the way, I'd recommend fitting a separate relay and a heavy duty cable to the solenoid.
If it does need to come out, you won't get at it from underneath so it's a "top-down" job.
This might be helpful .
You probably have a bad connection somewhere.
Also, if you can get the engine to start, a voltage check across
the battery should be something like 14.3V...
This is about normal output for alternators...
I wrote this "how to" for someone having a problem with the starter. I thought there might be some interest to others that were not following that thread.
If you have an electric fuel pump you may want to remove the fuse for the pump before doing these tests.
All these tests are done with a fully charged battery and digital volt meter..
1. Put the volt meter across the battery and try to start the car. (It doesn't matter which meter lead goes to which poll on the battery or any other test point we will be checking. We're going to ignore the - or + shown on the meter. )
The meter will show how much the battery is maintaining it's voltage during starting. It should not be less then 10 V. A battery's ability to maintain voltage here is the capacity of the battery not the voltage (charge) of the battery at rest. Capacity has to do with the total surface area (of the plates) of the battery. The CCA (number) rating is a good indicator. CCA is noted on the battery label. Batteries with the same size (H,W,D) can and do have different CCA numbers. CCA is cold cranking amps. The amount it can put out when under load. (As most with most things, size counts here.)
2. Now put the volt meter between the battery ground (-) terminal and any bolt or something on the engine. (near the battery is OK. ) Run the starter. Note the voltage on the meter. A good reading would be below 0.4 volts. Anything higher will indicate a bad/week ground between the battery and the motor. Remember any voltage here means less voltage for the starter motor. If a problem is indicated you need to add another ground to the system or fix the one that is installed. The OEM ground cable (between the car body and the starter) is located on the starter visible under the car. If the ground cable is missing or really bad you will be drawing current through something else like the tach cable or somewhere else. Not good, this can really cause big problems down the road.A good cleaning of this cable and the area it is bolted to, might fix the problem.
3. Now we're going to check the +12V (red) cable. This one goes from the + terminal on the battery directally to the starter. (the big cable.) This takes a little work. First disconnect the battery ground (-) cable at the battery (Very important !!!) At the starter loosen the nut on the big cable and add an other wire (3-4 ft long) to it. We're going to bring a wire from the starter up where it's easy to attach to the volt meter later. Now reattach the ground cable to the battery. We're going to measure the voltage across the +12 v cable while the starter is running. Attach the meter to this new wire and the +terminal on the battery. Check voltage while starter is running. A reading of 0.8 is what I have on my car and the starter runs fine. Depending on the voltage reading you may have to install a bigger wire.
4. Now we're going to check the voltage across the starter. Put the volt meter from the wire (the 3-4 ft one) you installed on the starter and any good point on the engine. Run the starter. This will show just how many volts are actually showing up at the starter.
Write down all these numbers and report back (if there is a problem,) and lets see if we can figure this out.
NB: Don't forget to secure ( you may need it later.) that wire we added to the starter. If this wire touches any thing you will get a really good spark.
BTW: Be aware that some batteries are mislabeled as to CCA in the stores. I always take a tester with me anytime I go to buy a battery. Below is the one I have used for years. (no stock in the company) Notice that there is two leads going to each alligator r clip. This is to insure there is a good contact with the battery being tested. There are many testers using this technology with only one wire attaching the aligater clip. Don't buy these. They are not reliable.
Amazon.com: Midtronics PBT200 Battery Tester w Charging System Test: Automotive
Buy Midtronics PBT200 Battery Tester w Charging System Test: Battery Testers - Amazon.com âś“ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
You probably have a bad connection somewhere.
Also, if you can get the engine to start, a voltage check across
the battery should be something like 14.3V...
This is about normal output for alternators...
I wrote this "how to" for someone having a problem with the starter. I thought there might be some interest to others that were not following that thread.
If you have an electric fuel pump you may want to remove the fuse for the pump before doing these tests.
All these tests are done with a fully charged battery and digital volt meter..
1. Put the volt meter across the battery and try to start the car. (It doesn't matter which meter lead goes to which poll on the battery or any other test point we will be checking. We're going to ignore the - or + shown on the meter. )
The meter will show how much the battery is maintaining it's voltage during starting. It should not be less then 10 V. A battery's ability to maintain voltage here is the capacity of the battery not the voltage (charge) of the battery at rest. Capacity has to do with the total surface area (of the plates) of the battery. The CCA (number) rating is a good indicator. CCA is noted on the battery label. Batteries with the same size (H,W,D) can and do have different CCA numbers. CCA is cold cranking amps. The amount it can put out when under load. (As most with most things, size counts here.)
2. Now put the volt meter between the battery ground (-) terminal and any bolt or something on the engine. (near the battery is OK. ) Run the starter. Note the voltage on the meter. A good reading would be below 0.4 volts. Anything higher will indicate a bad/week ground between the battery and the motor. Remember any voltage here means less voltage for the starter motor. If a problem is indicated you need to add another ground to the system or fix the one that is installed. The OEM ground cable (between the car body and the starter) is located on the starter visible under the car. If the ground cable is missing or really bad you will be drawing current through something else like the tach cable or somewhere else. Not good, this can really cause big problems down the road.A good cleaning of this cable and the area it is bolted to, might fix the problem.
3. Now we're going to check the +12V (red) cable. This one goes from the + terminal on the battery directally to the starter. (the big cable.) This takes a little work. First disconnect the battery ground (-) cable at the battery (Very important !!!) At the starter loosen the nut on the big cable and add an other wire (3-4 ft long) to it. We're going to bring a wire from the starter up where it's easy to attach to the volt meter later. Now reattach the ground cable to the battery. We're going to measure the voltage across the +12 v cable while the starter is running. Attach the meter to this new wire and the +terminal on the battery. Check voltage while starter is running. A reading of 0.8 is what I have on my car and the starter runs fine. Depending on the voltage reading you may have to install a bigger wire.
4. Now we're going to check the voltage across the starter. Put the volt meter from the wire (the 3-4 ft one) you installed on the starter and any good point on the engine. Run the starter. This will show just how many volts are actually showing up at the starter.
Write down all these numbers and report back (if there is a problem,) and lets see if we can figure this out.
NB: Don't forget to secure ( you may need it later.) that wire we added to the starter. If this wire touches any thing you will get a really good spark.
BTW: Be aware that some batteries are mislabeled as to CCA in the stores. I always take a tester with me anytime I go to buy a battery. Below is the one I have used for years. (no stock in the company) Notice that there is two leads going to each alligator r clip. This is to insure there is a good contact with the battery being tested. There are many testers using this technology with only one wire attaching the aligater clip. Don't buy these. They are not reliable.
Amazon.com: Midtronics PBT200 Battery Tester w Charging System Test: Automotive
Buy Midtronics PBT200 Battery Tester w Charging System Test: Battery Testers - Amazon.com âś“ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
best mod you can do is to put in a starter relay, as JS mentioned above
very easy to do.
I put this little guide together if it helps:
very easy to do.
I put this little guide together if it helps:
For those of you that brought back this old thread I have additional
info. Instead of pulling the fuse, I just use one of these.
I just install one of these on the fuel hose.
A great time saver...
info. Instead of pulling the fuse, I just use one of these.
I just install one of these on the fuel hose.
A great time saver...
Amazon.com: OTC 4506 Fuel Line Clamp Set - 2 Piece, black : Automotive
Buy OTC 4506 Fuel Line Clamp Set - 2 Piece, black: Fuel Line Disconnect Tools - Amazon.com âś“ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com
@samakijoe, yeah-well-no thanks. Maybe I'd use them on a known new hose on a used car that I'm selling to stranger out of state. In my experience, when you crush a rubber hose like this it is possible to damage it; make a weak point where it will fail in the future. I know flat rate guys who pinch (crush) fuel hoses, coolant hoses, even brake hoses, all the time. When I frown about this, they say, well, if it fails in the future it's just more paying work...
Andy: I except the spanking. Been spanked before and it will happen again...
I guess I should have mentioned the "rules" I follow when using these clamps in the shop and other places.
These are some of the rules, but not all for it's uses: :
1. Never clamp using a 12" crescent wrench.
2. never use the same location on the hose twice.
3. Remember to remove it at the point I want to try to restart the engine. (happens all the time)
4. They are small. So store them in a "special" place.
I hang mine on a string off my pencil sharpener. always in plan view. Just like in high school shop class.
5. I find them handy when I'm building a wooden model boat. Great for holding parts together while the glue dries.
6. When printing out one of my many post PhD thesis I use them to attachment the pages together . I find a stapler just does not hack it with that many pages.
7. A friend of mine is a member of a CIA interrogation team. Out drinking one night we got into a discussion about his job. He started to describe some of the thing they do to the bad guys. Really gross. And this little clamp came to mind. After telling him about them he went online to amazon and bought 24 to use in one of his classes he teaches at the camp the next day.
I keep coming up with new things to do with them. If any of you can come up with a new idea for it's use please submit t here. Who knows , this just might be the start of something like to long list of uses for Duck Tape. We can only dream...
I guess I should have mentioned the "rules" I follow when using these clamps in the shop and other places.
These are some of the rules, but not all for it's uses: :
1. Never clamp using a 12" crescent wrench.
2. never use the same location on the hose twice.
3. Remember to remove it at the point I want to try to restart the engine. (happens all the time)
4. They are small. So store them in a "special" place.
I hang mine on a string off my pencil sharpener. always in plan view. Just like in high school shop class.
5. I find them handy when I'm building a wooden model boat. Great for holding parts together while the glue dries.
6. When printing out one of my many post PhD thesis I use them to attachment the pages together . I find a stapler just does not hack it with that many pages.
7. A friend of mine is a member of a CIA interrogation team. Out drinking one night we got into a discussion about his job. He started to describe some of the thing they do to the bad guys. Really gross. And this little clamp came to mind. After telling him about them he went online to amazon and bought 24 to use in one of his classes he teaches at the camp the next day.
I keep coming up with new things to do with them. If any of you can come up with a new idea for it's use please submit t here. Who knows , this just might be the start of something like to long list of uses for Duck Tape. We can only dream...
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