[biz5300]

bonnier article in motorrevyn

Here is an article in a swedish magazine from 55 on Jo Bo and his car..

 

[Subtle]

Interesting thread.

 

[2000 touring sp]

3. Los "Disco Volante" y 6C 3000 CM (1952-1954)

A link that probably, can be of interest to participants of this tread, if you don't know the link already

 

[Iluvatar]

Another Alfa 3000 mistery...
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limited-production-1910-1949/260137-amadei-alfa-romeo-3000-s-s.html

 

[CarterHendricks]

Another Alfa 3000 mistery...
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limited-production-1910-1949/260137-amadei-alfa-romeo-3000-s-s.html

Oddly modified 6C2500 Touring body, not 6C3000CM chassis.

--Carter

 

[Marco750B56]

Touring sp,

yes, any problem in this text...
because all 6C 3000CM is like the name says : 6 cilinder not 4 cil !!!

So i think, he took about all " Disco Volante " C52 ( base 1900, and one of this have engine 3000cc, the one in the Tornou Museum ) .

I travel in 2010 centenary of Alfa Romeo, and i see this C52 special Spider with the 3000cc engine.

I make " one giro " and i have the video onboard in the C52 " disco volante " coupe Touring Supperleggera and another in the Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 Spider Colli , all from Museum Alfa Romeo in Arese.

So, in my opinion, this article is about the " Disco Volante " c52 and not about later ( 1953 ) Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 CM ( built to Le Mans, only six : 4 coupes and 2 spiders )

Regards !

Marco Pestana
Squadra Alfa Romeo Madeira

Hello to you all.
In the Italian magazine Routeclassiche from October 2014.
Is there an article about Disco Volante by the Journalist Alessandro Barteletti.
In there he connect to 3000 CM the carrozzeria Colli, as we know, and Boano.
Boano is new to me regarding the 3000CM. Except for the Peron Coupe, but if it this that is referred to, the Pinin Farina shuld have been mentioned to.In my humble opinion. Ore is it all, just bad Journalism
Can anybody confirm the Boano connection to 3000CM.?? In Race version
Was there any connection to the Spider or the Coupé??

 

[Marco750B56]

Hi Touring Sp,

Yes, because one ex-coupe are transform in Spider by Zagato to Jo Bonnier.
And these car, lived today in USA, in private colletion. Are blue and yellow, the sweden competition colour.

It is the second " Spider " based in 6C 3000 CM coupe Colli.

regards

Marco Pestana

Marco
There are those that think there is 5 coupes, and there was only one Spider.
The spider PR is not included in the 3000CM, it was an other chassis and engine

 

[Marco750B56]

"Alfa Romeo 6C 3000CM Chassis: #00125

This Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 CM was originally bodied by Colli and given a coupe configuration. It was campaigned by the factory Works team at the 1953 Mille Miglia. A few months later it was in the hands of the legendary Juan Manuel Fangio and Onofre Marimon at the grueling 24 Hours of LeMans race. The vehicle was involved in an accident and a new Spyder body was created by Zagato. A short time later possession passed to J. Bonnier who had the car painted in Swedish racing livery and used it in competition until 1956. 

In 2005 many events celebrated the Alfa Romeo marque, including the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. This 6C 3000 CM graced the golf course lawn at Pebble Beach and sat among many other rare and exotic Alfa Romeo automobiles."

Source : net


This one :

Marco
There are those that think there is 5 coupes, and there was only one Spider.
The spider PR is not included in the 3000CM, it was an other chassis and engine

 

[Marco750B56]

Touring,

I think you not understand, because my english it is not good, but if your Portuguese are better than my english, dear Touring, welcome !

The last " post " it is one " copy past " text i found, maybe three years ago, about this 3000CM...Not my words !

I have since 2010, one album on my facebook, only for this special Alfa Romeo 6C 3000CM ( I have too photos of the special PR ) . Only because i liked search about this.

And, like you know, about Alfa Romeo story, you allways found someting new...NEVER you and me or another alfista around the world, know all about...FUSi words.

Indeed. This tread is very good. And i follow.

But please, dont say things you dont know about me.
Thank you.

Marco.
Please do you selves the possibility to go trough , what is left from this wonderful tread, from beginning.The best, and most educating, tread ever on Alfa BB
Then you will have the possibility, to know what is up and down of the history of one the most promising, Alfa's after second world war. The 3000CM.

 

[Tomas Karlsson]

Alfa Romeo 6C 3000CM Chassis: #00125

This Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 CM was originally bodied by Colli and given a coupe configuration. It was campaigned by the factory Works team at the 1953 Mille Miglia. A few months later it was in the hands of the legendary Juan Manuel Fangio and Onofre Marimon at the grueling 24 Hours of LeMans race. The vehicle was involved in an accident and a new Spyder body was created by Zagato. A short time later possession passed to J. Bonnier who had the car painted in Swedish racing livery and used it in competition until 1956. 

In 2005 many events celebrated the Alfa Romeo marque, including the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. This 6C 3000 CM graced the golf course lawn at Pebble Beach and sat among many other rare and exotic Alfa Romeo automobiles.

When Bonnier got the car in 1955 it was a Colli coupé. He crashed the car after a few laps in practice for the first race. The car was sent to Zagato, where Bonnier already had an order for three 1900SS cars. Zagato built a spider body and Bonnier got it back for the Swedish GP, where Kvarnström drove the car. Bonnier then raced it up until late '56 (Wharton, Piper and Kanrell also did races with it). It was painted red in '55 and in the winter races in '56. It was painted black with a yellow stripe for the spring '56 and in July it became blue and yellow. The front was also rebuilt a couple of times after having met hay-bales.

 

[Marco750B56]

Thank you Tomas !
Great post.
cheers
Marco.

When Bonnier got the car in 1955 it was a Colli coupé. He crashed the car after a few laps in practice for the first race. The car was sent to Zagato, where Bonnier already had an order for three 1900SS cars. Zagato built a spider body and Bonnier got it back for the Swedish GP, where Kvarnström drove the car. Bonnier then raced it up until late '56 (Wharton, Piper and Kanrell also did races with it). It was painted red in '55 and in the winter races in '56. It was painted black with a yellow stripe for the spring '56 and in July it became blue and yellow. The front was also rebuilt a couple of times after having met hay-bales.

 

[Tomas Karlsson]

I don't know how many spiders there were originally. All I know is that the Bonnier car was one of the original 1953 coupé cars. He crashed it in a tree in Helsinki in May '55. And Zagato built a spider body on it. That is all well documented before.

 

[2000 touring sp]

Hello to you all
I do often think on the one that Carlo was missing. The fifth Colli Coupe. These information was only 8 years when the article was written

Last of the Red-Hot Alfas By KARL LUDVIGSEN
From the February 1961 Issue of Sports Cars Illustrated
Five of these racing coupes were built; four are readily accountable for today. One was rebodied as a spyder by the factory, and driven to an obscure win by Fangio in the Supercortemaggiore sports cars race at Merano in 1953. It's in the Alfa museum today, next to the 1952 Disco. Another was given Boano touring-type coupe body­wo.k and sold (or presented) to Argentina's Peron in 1955. A third coupe went to Joakim Bonnier, who was then the main agent for Alfa Romeo in Sweden. He found the head­room too small and had the car rebodied by Zagato in roadster fashion in 1955, then competed extensively with it before selling it to Henry Wessells III, inveterate American Alfa enthusiast. Next it was owned by Shelly Spindel, when it was driven in competition by Rodger Ward and Bruce Kessler, and now it's garaged by John Willock of Long Island. A fourth car was reportedly given a Ghia coupe body, and is not now traceable. The fifth you see on these pages. PF Super Sport coupe

 

[kuni123456]

The car driven by Juan Fangio in the 1953 Mille Miglia race and then rebodied as the Superflow IV is now located in Los Angeles, CA.

 

[DIN]

I am still trying to figure a couple of things out regarding the Disco Volante cars...

If i am not mistaken the first car produced was a "Alfa Romeo 3000ccm Sport "Disco Volante"" sometime in the Spring of 1952. As far as the information that has been published in period the car came with an engine which had a bore and stroke of 82,5 x 92 and had three double carburators, which lends me to believe it is identical to the engine used in one of the C50 cars. Does anybody have a photo of this kind of engine? And the next question would regard the engine which is installed in the Disco Volante 3000 which is shown in the Museo dell Automobile in Turin. Does anybody have photos from the engine bay from that car? According to John De Boer the engine in this car is a "3495ccm" allthough three Weber double carburators are mentioned.

How many of the "Alfa Romeo 3000ccm Sport "Disco Volante"" were built? According to John DeBoer at least 2, Chassis number 1361.00011 and 1361.00012. There is only one left correct? It is the 00011 shown in Turin, correct? Which one was 00012? And what about the type designation 1361? Can anybody confirm that this was used on the "Alfa Romeo 3000ccm Sport "Disco Volante""? I would tend to believe that they received an earlier number as type designation... 1359 was used for the (i suppose a little time later built) "2000 Disco Volante" cars, 1361 on the 6C3000CM and even if it is not a Disco derivate just for an example of the numbering sequenze Alfa Romeo used: 1366 on the later "2000 Sportiva" cars. So are there any old documents which confirm the type designation? I know Fusi quoted these in his books, but....

When were the first photos published of a "2000 Disco Volante" in period?

When were these cars first called "C52"? Any period magazines which mentions that?

If i am not mistaken, most information published shares the theory that the "Fianchi Stretti" car was originally a Disco Volante which has been modified from the "original" version. Is there any proof to this theory, can´t it be that the car was built up this way in the first place after the lessons learned.

Would be happy if anybody could help.

Patrick

 

[2000 touring sp]

Hello to you all. Long time no see.
From a forum, a couple of years ago. I copied these information. I came by the word document this weekend. But I don’t remember from witch forum I Copied. Maybe it was a Ferrari forum, a guess, as Boudewijn is a moderator.
I do have a problem to understand the information given for
“123- add Practice car for LeMans, Practice car for Nurburgring on July 11th, bad crash in practice (steering), renumbered to 127.”
Boudewijn: No questions, but additions and clarifications.

123- add Practice car for LeMans, Practice car for Nurburgring on July 11th, bad crash in practice (steering), renumbered to 127.

124- add Mille Miglia Fangio/Sala #602, Practice car for LeMans #68, LeMans Stagnoli/Palmieri DNS (reserve car), Practice car for Supercortemaggiore at Merano, probably renumbered to 128.

125 essentally correct, but I can add much more.

126-add Supercortemaggiore GP practice car for Fangio/Sanesi, Mille Miglia Zehender DNS.

127- correct

128-correct

I have much more including the engine numbers at each race.
Replay from Boudewijn: T
hanks ****, but I was not trying to give a complete account of the histories of the individual cars, just trying to give a view on the destiny of the different cars.
At the same time you gave some interesting additions:

#123 : renumbered #127 after crash of Kling in practice against a wall at the Nürburgring
#124 : probably renumbered #128 after it's racing career
Those renumberings were not known in the time when Simon Moore (70-ies), Henry Wessels and Ben Hendriks (80-ies) did their research on these cars.



The Nürburgring race for sports cars was the: 1000 km. Witsch took place on the 30 August 1953.
Nürburgring 30 August 1953 Großer Pries von Deutschland but it was Formel 1.
And not the 11 July. I do have a problem to find out what race that took place at Nürburgring on the 11 of July 1953.
But in my opinion, would it be impossible to rebuild the chassis *00123 , and renumbered it to *00127 so it could start at Merano on the Supercortemaggiore on 5 of September 1953.
But witch chassis was it that was renumbered to *00127 .The 6C 3000 CM Colli Spider That’s is the question.???????
For the race at Nürburgring, was Alfa Romeo there with a full team, 4 6C 3000 CM Colli Coupe, 3 for the race and one as reserve.
Who was the drivers and what chassis was present at Nürburgring on 30 of August besides Kling and chassis 123.?????
At Merano there was also 2 Colli coupes, that was planned to attend the race. Anyone knows the chassis numbers for the 2 6C 3000 CM .??????
For the Mille Miglia 1954 Zehender was on the start list. But DNA. Anyone know the chassis number ????????
Best regards
Bjarke

 

[curt66]

Interesting thread....

...when i was working at Epifani Restorations we had Aurianas CM in for a while getting it sorted for Phil Hill to drive at the Historics...he was a really great guy and super friendly and knowledgeable about the cars...it came apart and everything was redone...i took photos of a lot of the process and previous work that had been done...000126 i believe...i'll dig through my drive when i get home and post some that might be of interest here...


cp

 

[Calafiore]

Some interesting comments here.

First saw the Supeflow CM when at Peter Kaus' Rosso Bianco Museum in Aschaffenburg Germany in 1991. Was producing a tv show for an American cable network. Peter said, "You like Alfas, let me show you something."
He took us into the basement area where the shop was. There was an entire row of Zagatos along one wall. I thought this was what he had brought me down to see. When I mentioned this he just laughed and said, "That's my divorce settlement.
No" he said, "I wanted to show you this."
He stepped behind a tarped shape against a shadowed wall, and pulled the tarp off with animation. It was the Superflow CM. The same that was run by Karl in that SCI article mentioned above. (A great read. Have a copy.)
"The hood's loose give it a lift." Peter instructed, with a smile.
This car had only been remembered by me at the time as one of the Pinin design exercises that had led to the Alfa Duetto. Being in the presence of this ground breaking design study was exciting enough that winter afternoon, then, gingerly lifting the hood I was taken aback. Peter saw the look, "Yes, that's one of the 6C 3000CM. It had become obsolete and sitting about Arese, and Pinin needed a rolling chassis for a design study." Believe he mentioned it had been Fangio's LeMans car, 00126. Arranged for Peter to bring it to Amelia, for that Alfa year. Penned the main Marque article for the program.

Had the chance to drive with Henry in his CM from Concorso in Carmel Valley over the ridge to the Historics one year. Perhaps 1998 or so. Henry was a fan of the Alfa CD and we became fast friends, well, very fast that afternoon...

Thought I'd tell these disarming vignettes before spotlighting a few things above.

RE: Danish 2000 comments: A quick reference to Jano Wimpffen's superb 'Time and Two Seats' mentions the somewhat unhappy exploits of the CMs in '53 with some detail.
A first point would perhaps be this: You mention a crash at the Nurburgring on 11 July. Perhaps you might be referring to the crash by Sanesi in the rain during the night at Spa, the 24, on 26 -27 July. Shame really, Farina, Ascari & Fangio had been running like a train, having lapped the entire field, before night fell and the rains came.This had the impact of Fangio decamping to Lancia. (Which paid off in November with the Carrera win in the D-24. Believe Peter had this car in the Rosso Bianco as well.)

The 00123 CM, Sanesi and Corini's LeMans CM, actually ran about 125 laps of the race before the gearbox went south. A little less than half of the winning 304. This was also Sanesi's car in the Mille. He set a race pace time before crashing out.

Think perhaps Arese had packed it in with the CMs before the 1000K at the Nurburgring.

 

[2000 touring sp]

Calafiore, sorry. But Alfa Romeo was at the Nürburgring in 1953. Karl Kling had at accident during the practice. There after, was the full Alfa Romeo team withdravn from the race.
Jano Wimpffen's superb 'Time and Two Seats' Does only write about the Races in the first Sports Car FIA Championship.

 

[Calafiore]

Apology unnecessary, if sources are presented.

In speaking of the 30 August running of the Nurburgring 1000K: the information as presented is correct. The 1000K was round 5 of the WSC of 1953.