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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Good morning, gentle alfisti,

I knew the turn signal and light switch and subsequent system in the 1979 Spider Veloce in my care was suspect, but driving home last Sunday my wife let me know that when I used the turn signals, both sides turned on like the hazards were engaged. I was also dealing with zero interior/gauge lighting, so I had a little more on my mind than that, but since I had a turn signal relay and signal/light stalk to install, I figured I'd tackle those. The stalk and relay went in and I've got both operating with a couple of caveats. First, the hazard switch is completely disconnected right now and I am pretty confident it is the culprit. With everything connected correctly both signals engage when engaging the turn signal regardless of which direction it goes. Additionally, the hazard switch lights with the signals. If I remove the two leads (blue and blue/black) from the hazard switch it functions normally but the turn signal indicator between the gauges lights constantly even without the signals engaged. I currently have the lead from the turn signal relay to the signal indicator unplugged and the hazard switch unplugged and the signals operate correctly, though without that central indicator light operating. Like I said, I'm pretty sure the hazard switch is the culprit of at least some of the issues. I've searched around for the identical part number, similar parts from BMWs and Fiats of the era, etc, but I am curious if there is a "best fit" replacement for the hazard switch that is available and not extremely pricey.

Edit: the hazard switch is experiencing the issue where it won't click off, so leaving it makes the hazard lights go off indefinitely.

Forgive the state of the wiring under the dash, the car is a runner with a relatively dodgy SPICA to Dellorto DHLA conversion.

1661984


I found an SAE QC 68 DKS - B for between $110-174, but my understanding is quite a few similar parts exist which are compatible and less expensive. There's an SAE QC 74 DKS - G from a BMW 320i, an SAE QC 69 DKS - A from a BMW 2500, and a Hella 3916-03 I've found after searching a bit. Just curious if any of those are preferred based on compatibility or ease of installation. The SAE QC 74 DKS - G seems the most reasonably priced but has a different securing mechanism than the original part. It has plastic flanges that you push through the dash and expand behind it, whereas the other parts have threading and a plastic nut which threads on from the back.

1661985


The indicator light, which is currently unplugged, would shine constantly as a slightly more dim level when plugged in. It definitely got brighter when the signals were engaged.

1661986



I am pretty confident everything is/was plugged in right but I'd love to be able to confirm that. I think I'll be able to get everything functional again with a new hazard switch unless there is something wrong with the wiring to the indicator light, but I'm sure I'll be able to suss that out. Additionally, after browsing this forum and before joining it, I was really surprised to see the work the user Papajam had done for the community. The level and sincerity of knowledge exchange I saw was one of the reasons I chose to join here. I only just learned last night that he had passed, which is very sad and was surely a loss for this community. Forgive me if I'm dragging up uncomfortable memories, I just really enjoyed the camaraderie and mutual appreciation I saw. With that in mind, I'd like to request a wiring diagram for the 1979 Spider Veloce with the understanding that I won't copy, distribute, or sell it. Such a cool thing to be able to bring to other enthusiasts. Sorry, I'll stop going on.

Anyway, here's Wonderwall thanks for the help this community offers!
 

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I guess your hazard light switch could be the issue, but I wouldn't be too certain. For example, I'm not picturing how a defective switch could make the turn signal indicator between the gauges light constantly even without the signals engaged. Another culprit could be something(s) mis-wired; are you sure the flasher relay is connected properly? That's what drives the indicator light.

The hazard switch is a weak point on these cars (and BMW's and all the cars that use them). But they tend to fail mechanically - failing to lock in the "off" position - rather than fail electrically. And yes, replacements are stupid expensive. Sorry, I don't know what manufacturers/part #'s are compatible. Does your switch have 6 terminals or 8?

The way I would proceed would be to take out the hazard switch and get the turn signal system to function correctly (as I recall you need to jumper two of the wires going to the hazard switch to accomplish this). Then decide whether you really need hazards; after all, what are the odds that a 41-year old Italian car with a dodgy carb conversion and funky wiring is going to break down?

There are several threads on the BB about substituting a SPST switch and a couple of diodes for the $$$$ hazard switch. For example: Retrofit Hazard Lights Question
 

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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #3
Oh yes, I neglected to mention the hazard switch fails to turn off in the way that is described. Sorry, that's kind of important info and I'll edit it into the original post.
 

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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #4
I don't think the hazard switch is the cause of that specific issue with the indicator light. I do think I have the hazard relay wired right. P to the indicator light, X to the red/power in, and L to the black/ground.
1662012
 

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I don't think the hazard switch is the cause of that specific issue with the indicator light. I do think I have the hazard relay wired right. P to the indicator light, X to the red/power in, and L to the black/ground.
Yea, I'll admit that I can't think of a way to mis-wire a flasher relay to exhibit the symptom you describe.

I neglected to mention the hazard switch fails to turn off
OK, then you definitely need to replace it with either a new one or the SPST switch + diodes hack. Note that you can find them on ebay in the $50 - 60 range. For example: BMW HAZARD SWITCH 61-31-1-353-428 | eBay Only install a new switch for this application; any used one is likely to fail in the "on" position soon.
 

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I have the EXACT same issue, but the hazards only turn on with the right turn signal. Glad I found this post.
 

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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #7
I have the EXACT same issue, but the hazards only turn on with the right turn signal. Glad I found this post.
I can't say for sure what would cause that but I did notice when I unplugged one of the blue or blue/black wires from the hazard switch it only engaged when using one side of the turn signal respective to which wire I removed. The wiring on the turn signal switch seems to be opposite with engaging the left signal utilizing the blue wire on top of the switch and engaging the right signal utilizing the blue/black on the bottom of the switch. I assume that's because it's got a pivot point that the lever pivots on when you engage them. I'd still look at replacing the hazard switch assuming removing the switch allows your right signal to operate normally.
 

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1978 Spider
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I have a wiring diagram for a 78. I don't think there would be much of a difference. Maybe someone can confirm?
 

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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #9
I'd assume the late S2s with emissions equipment would be very similar.
 

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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #11
Let me know if you can download it
Looks great, thanks!

Another culprit could be something(s) mis-wired; are you sure the flasher relay is connected properly
I did a little bit more testing and I think the replacement relay is causing the indicator light to be on. The old relay doesn't blink but it doesn't cause the indicator light to stay on. The new one blinks but also causes the indicator to stay on. TL;DR: I think they're both bad (the replacement relay is a super cheap points type that kind of fell apart when I took it out of its box). I've got a new, better replacement coming as well as a replacement hazard switch, so combined I'm hoping that solves both problems. The wiring for the indicator light is literally just a lead and a ground and it only travels like 6" from the relay to the light, and since it all looks to be in good shape I'm finding myself with very little else to blame but the relay.
 

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1979 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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Discussion Starter #12
Good news! The new hazard switch and electronic signal relay have resolved all the issues with the turn signals. I was able to clean up a bit of wiring and, of course, the new turn signal stalk resolved issues with the interior gauge lighting as well as the turn signal/spring mechanism. I won't be using the car until the snow clears but at least now it won't be so lairy if I have to drive it at night.
 

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My issue still exists when the hazard switch is completely unplugged. Turning the right signal on makes both sides of the car blink. Left turn works find. Can you tell me where exactly the relay is located? That seems the only other point of failure.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
1662602

It should look like this and it is attached to the steering column right next to the fuse box. I think newer cars got a four way relay, but I can't say for sure. They are cheap, in the $2 range, but the one I got was closer to $20 and is an electronic replacement for the old, points type relay.
 

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well I found 1 issue, the previous owner had jumped some wires together causing my hazards to turn on when turning one direction. Removed that and now the turn signals work properly, but the hazards only turn on one side. This seems to lean towards a bad hazard switch unless someone has another idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I wish I did because the hazard switch is a silly thing to spend money on, like I just did, but if everything else works I'd look at a new hazard switch.
 
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