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Discussion Starter #1
Way too hot to do much during summer months here but now with cooler an drier weather I`d like to address two things.
First is more an annoyance that after a complete front end restoration the car seems to have gained height at the front, even with 5mm spacers under the spring pans there is a larger gap between the top of the tire and the wheel arch.
I don't want to cut the original springs but maybe some has a pair for sale which will drop the front say a half inch? see pic below.
Second, while lubing the middle u joint the long extension of the grease nipple snaped off, I am super careful with these yet it just came off. Then I broke off the easy-out in it trying to unscrew the nub. That was just not a good day.
Years ago I replaced the drive shaft because I could not get the original balanced correctly, that driveshaft fixed the vibration issue but now its going downhill fast, I haven`t been able to change a u-joint on these old shafts with out loosing balance, whats going on.
 

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I'd say driveshaft woes are issue #1 with Giulias and Berlinas. I just inherited a bunch of pieces from a friend he could not get to balance right on his race Super. I have kind of a big graveyard of driveshaft pieces.

Key seems to be correctly ID the problem (u-joint, front bushing, donut, bearing, straightness, balance) and have a competent shop sort it. That said, a friend has thrown everything imaginable at the driveshaft on his GTV, sometimes twice over, and not solved his rumble yet. It can be tough.

Andrew
 

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Similar to another thread on the GT section.
When you tightened up the bolts at the front, did u have all the weight on the front of the car ? It should be on the ground, or on ramps so that all the weight of the car is pressing down on the suspension. If not, and you've tightened it up with the suspension drooping , then this could be your problem.
Presume you used your original springs , and just rebushed everything ?
Nice car by the way !
Steve
 

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To me, the only thing in 105 front suspension that really binds on tightening up is the upper inner A-arm bushing. Lower arm bushings rotate freely, as do both ball joints. It's a good practice to tighten that way, but I kinda doubt it's the source of the issue.

I wonder if dropping the pan a bit doesn't really alter the ride height much; not in the same way putting in a longer or shorter spring of the same rate would. I haven't quantified this with experiments. I know some cars come with spacers in the right side, but does that affect the ride height, or rather just the effective rate of the spring in action?

Andrew
 

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...after a complete front end restoration the car seems to have gained height at the front...
When you say "gained height" do you mean it seemed lower a few months ago, and now seems higher? If that is really the case, I would look at the shocks. Is it possible that they are somehow "pumped up"? What does the ride height do when you disconnect the front shocks? Obviously you can't drive it without shocks, but what does the static ride height look like with them removed?
 

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Suspension settles, up or down, over time, no question. Yeah, gas shocks or oil shocks with "stiction" will affect height.
Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Suspension settles, up or down, over time, no question. Yeah, gas shocks or oil shocks with "stiction" will affect height.
Andrew
Good points, I sand blasted and epoxy painted all the parts including the springs, took some time! I recall swinging the reassembled suspension with out its spring and shock thru its travel so it was not binding but the shocks are the black Boge (IIRC) and I don't know if they are gas. Worth disconnecting and checking. Thanks.
Steve, I dont know the GT but this car has the same metal bush upper and lower, Supers had a solid rubber upper which I suppose needs to be tightend on the ground.
I also noticed that the right side had pan spacers only so I put some washers on the left side to even things out but like Andrew said it doesn't seem to do much. Another way out idea was that unloading, cleaning and ArmorAlling (sp) the upper and lower spring seats somehow made them swell up ????
I'll measure the distance to the pavement of the wheel arch and the gap between tire and arch for comparison with what you all have.
Drive shaft will be next....
 

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Passenger-side spacers to drop the spring pan are normal on some. I'm not sure what it depended on. There were also deeper passenger-side spring pans, did the same thing without spacers.

In spite of geometry, springs and ride height seems an inexact, or at least not fully understood, science. Sometimes you have to make a couple attempts. I remember Dan Marvin altering springs repeatedly to get his Colli right after rebuilding the suspension. And he knows this stuff a lot better than I do.

The consensus on another thread was, gas shocks raise the ride maybe 1/2", even with low pressure that you can overcome by hand. Surprised me, but I tried it, was true.

Andrew
 

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My two cents from the above photo, your car looks like my Super, pretty much, in terms of wheel wells. You can also measure to the jack points from the ground.

Some folks like a forward rake, but the serious 105 racers I respect all say flat, or slightly lower in the rear, for best handing. The Katchee Brothers TI is the fastest sedan around, and it's noticeably lower in the rear. But that's different from looks.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lower in the back...well I've always run less air in the back, 27 psi and 30 front, I think it handles better, wonder what you run in the racecar Super.
Also, I got some measurements,
26 3/4 inches both sides exactly, front fender to ground .
22 1/2 both sides rear.
8 7/8 front jack point, 9 3/4 rear.
I'd really like to get some others stock numbers, remember there are NO other TIs or Supers in my neck of the woods for comparison.
Thanks,
 

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In the Porsche world, they measure hub center to fender lip straight above it, that takes differences in tire height out of the equation. My cars are in the 8ish range at the jack points, but tire and wheel size greatly affect that. You're about an inch higher are the rear.

I can measure my street car tomorrow. My race car is way low, won't help.

I don't thin you can really compare tire pressures; depends on the tire and use. In CSRG we mostly use Hoosier Speedster race radials, treadwear 50. We're looking for 30-32 hot, which can mean starting mid 20s cold; they can heat up 6-8 degrees in a session. I wouldn't extrapolate that to street use.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ok thanks Andrew, I'd be glad with just quick fender to ground numbers.
 

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Are the springs seated properly?
 

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Years ago I replaced the drive shaft because I could not get the original balanced correctly, that driveshaft fixed the vibration issue but now its going downhill fast, I haven`t been able to change a u-joint on these old shafts with out loosing balance, whats going on.
Ahh driveshafts. Ugh. I just went through a saga on a couple. Had one on a Super with some vibs. Swapped every compoent out with a good known car's to test what it was. It was the longshaft. The shaft had new weights lap welded on so was not trustworthy. Fiddling one does not often end well. So we rebuilt an unmolested Berlina longshaft, new u-joints. No play in the spline. It turned out worse. Thought about sending them both out to a a shop for balancing. Someone told the u-joint flanges get warped with age. Someone else said they get a bit bowed with age. Finally bought a new OKP shaft. Have two junkers now. The new OKP and AH shafts are beefed up in the flanges (and 2/3rds the diameter and thicker tubing). Good luck! B
 

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Lower in the back...well I've always run less air in the back, 27 psi and 30 front, I think it handles better, wonder what you run in the racecar Super.
Also, I got some measurements,
26 3/4 inches both sides exactly, front fender to ground .
22 1/2 both sides rear.
8 7/8 front jack point, 9 3/4 rear.
I'd really like to get some others stock numbers, remember there are NO other TIs or Supers in my neck of the woods for comparison.
Thanks,
George, attached is an Excel S/S with some Giulia chassis measurements, from low at the top to high at the bottom One line is a stock 65 Super from the Tech Specs. My 65 comes in at that level. My green 72 Super is one of the few in the middle. I've added yours. Your rear is right at spec; your front is a bit below spec. Altogether you are very near spec.
 

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