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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
I am ready to install the wing glass back in my 63 Gulia. I Had to remove it to before sending the frame to plating. It appeared to be installed as a press fit. I am seeking advice on the "felt" that sandwiched between the glass and the channel. Does anybody have a source or a product name and thickness for what I need. As always I very much appreciate your responses.

As a side note I am giving myself an education.. on the various glass available. There seems to have been two manufactures some with beveled edges and some not. There also seems to be at least three different versions of the mount the side glass goes in..

epp
 

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My original vent glass was scratch free, still with the Sekurit logo. I reinstalled them both. If you looked in the vent frames upon disassembly for chrome plating you probably noticed a lot of rust inside the glass channel from that original felt holding any water behind the glass for many years, at least I did on mine. Instead of felt, I installed a couple of the 3M dum dum strips slowly in the channel to get just the right glass set-in placement, then trimmed the 3M stuff to the glass and chrome frame with a taper to repel the water out better. It looks clean, supports the glass in the vertical and horizontal channels solidly, & also at the top of the frame's stop of that chrome channel. Hopefully they will be more functional since they just sit there anyway.

I had more trouble gently getting the frames back in after installing the door's cat whisker strips...and then adjusting them at the bottom brackets for the correct angle. My windshield isn't in yet, so I need that to line up the entire door vent frames and wind up glass. Pointless without the windshield frame in. I read up on so many windshield-glass-cracking posts and varying tips that I'm having a friend with 60 years experience put the windshield frame together instead of just me crying about spilled glass. Which may still happen!

Good luck with your vent frames. Hopefully others with more 101 experience can share their tips.
 

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Barn101,

What are the "door's cat whisker strips"? Photos, if possible!

Thanks,

Ray
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Barn 101, thank you for the response. Some very good thoughts, I did not think of using the 3m strips for the wing windows.
Raimondo, What he means by cat whisker strips is the window fuzzies that go along the top edge of the door. They run horizontally and sandwich the glass between them. Getting the frames out was a challenge with the old ones in place, I am not looking forward to reversing the process.

epp
 

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Epp,

Ah, the felt strips; thanks for decoding that. Those were not included with my basket case Giulia Spider, so that's another pair of items to pick up.

Classic Alfa lists 750-213 SPIDER DOOR DROP GLASS FELT SET - 750 & 101 SERIES

But no indication as to how they are attached to the doors.

I can't imagine installing the felt strips AFTER the windows are in.

Ray
 

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Installing the quarter light frames can be a painful process, what we did was to get a short length of soft timber with one side the width of the door slot and the other just a bit wider, I then sanded the edges nice and round and after sliding it into the slot, I turned it to then expand the middle of the door slot open a bit wider. The quarter light frame slipped in alongside the timber and I then moved it forward into position - the wood was then turned again & removed.

You only need to spread the slot 1 or 2mm wider to get the frame to fit without the need to force it past the chrome & fuzzy window wipes and risk damaging them

Ciao
Greig
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ray, They were held in by very very small screws. There should be holes along the inside edge of area of the door where the window comes up. I am going to read up on the sequence of the door glass install, there are many factors to consider..
epp
 

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Epp,

How on earth could you get a screwdriver in there to tighten up such miniature screws?!?

Ray
 

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I'm going to be facing all of this pretty soon.AFA the fuzzies,yes,they were originally installed with small screws.My friend ruined his doors' paint using a screwdriver,but he didn't use at least some tape to protect the paint.I really haven't thought about this problem very much,but did wonder if 3M panel adhesive would work for the fuzzies instead of screws.Please keep us informed with any progress.Thanks,Phil
 

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Alphil,

Greig Smith is the southern hemisphere's #1 advocate of 3M panel adhesive. Maybe he'll read this thread again, tomorrow, and give us his take on it. I wonder how well the stuff really bonds things together and how you would ever get them apart if you needed to?

Epp,

Do you have any photos showing those miniature screws? I checked the GSPC and it makes NO mention of any way to secure the felt strips to the door sills; naturally!

Thanks,

Ray
 

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Ray,I've discussed many things with Greig but didn't know about the 3M affinity,that's good to hear as I trust his notions and opinions.I have these tight-place screwdrivers that come in handy,but obviously too big for the door slots.I wonder if there's something similar out there,but miniature?
 

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I've ruined door glass with screws holding in the cat whiskers on my other convertibles in the past. Never again. 3M adhesive works great...was messy, you don't need much, but it moves, so cut the stainless part of the strips to fit the full length of the opening first, apply a thin bead of the adhesive, start out at the top first and slide them down. That keeps the glue from coming up. Cleaning 3M adhesive at the top by the paint and your expensive horizontal cat whiskers is problematic, and a waste of time.

One can use painter's tape to hold them in place, but I also used a wedge of wood the same thickness to press them outward evenly the entire length to dry overnight. Greig's use of a wood wedge to widen out the opening for the vent frame after the glued dries is spot on. I carefully used a rubber handled tool twisted sideways and it held it open enough to slide the frames down and in. Haven't mastered the correct angle with the brackets at the bottom yet. But, as Bill Gillham told me, there's plenty of adjustment to play with down there.

By the way, your door glass with the track needs to go in first before that exercise if it's already together as one unit. I sat it inside at the bottom of the inner door until I got everything else in. Pretty sure the track is too fat and will chew up your new whisker strips after they are in.
 

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The screws that hold the chrome & fuzzy trim in are tiny... really tiny and not mentioned anywhere in any parts manual, think a self tapping / sheet metal version of the screws that hold your reading glasses together but with a bigger flat head to grip the trim, totally buried deep in the fuzzy felt. Oh yes and they are also made of unobtanium - everything available today is too big, so if you don't have the original screws + the original holes in the doors + the original holes in the original chrome & fuzzy strips, rather don't re-invent the wheel by trying to emulate what Fininfarina or Bertone did. Decent masking tape and 3M adhesive will save you a lot of heartache. There is original.... and then there is practical. 3m Adhesive applied sparingly & my local hardware has a really nice new painter's masking tape which is blue or green in colour and you can remove & re-apply it many times. much better edge seal than the traditional buff masking tape.

Phil you need the right screwdriver to make it all work - long thin shaft with a small flat blade at the end, with a length of thin plastic tubing over the shaft to rest on top of the 3 layers of masking tape you put on the opposite side top of the door - fresh paint damages easily. The screws are installed from the opposite side at a slight downward angle - And you need to magnetise the screwdriver to hold those tiny screws while you are searching for the tiny hole in the trim - did I mention that the screws are just plated steel and prone to rust ??

3M make an adhesive in a calking tube, the number escapes me now, a quick search brought up 3M 08008 Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive as well as 3M VHB 4611F Tape for those who may prefer a potentially easier removable option, except there's no wiggle into place with the tape like the adhesive, it's a first time fit - But honestly I'd check in with Bill Gillham on his opinion, he's forgotten more about Giulietta's than I will ever know !!

And yes, do remember to put the complete window into the door first !!

Aye
Greig
 

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This is no more difficult than any other job on these cars.
The hardest part is locating the original holes through the fuzzy strips, but it can be done with some careful probing with an awl.
Phillips #4 flat head screws work just fine. I used stainless steel black 1/2 inch screws from Fastener Express if I remember correctly.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So can I assume that the 3m strips are the way to go for installing the wing glass into the channel? I have not found any mention of the process at all in any old threads.
On the other hand I cant get the in site search feature to work anymore, it keeps saying oops....error.
 

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I used Glass Setting Tape on the wing glass. Lots of sources online.
If I recall correctly, 1/32” thickness worked well on the vent, and I doubled it up to attach the window left bracket to the main glass.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you Joe, I am not familiar with that product. I will become so.

epp
 

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I bought that Glass Setting Butyl Tape from NAPA as well, but ended up using the 3m strips. Seemed to give the glass plenty of support. I'm sure both are better than the felt for any long term life of those vent frame channels.

I also had found original felt from a long-owned glass shop. It had so much dust on it from never being used, it matched my car's age. Grabbed it anyway. It was free.

A good trick for that method, if one wants to be true to original with the felt, is use one of those large, clear vacuum bags from Home Depot for shrink packing winter or summer clothing. Get the felt trimmed & spotted on the vent glass inside the bag (or for use on the door glass track as well) and then using a shop vac, suck the air out of the bag along with the air in that felt. The glass can then be manipulated anywhere you want to set it in position while still in the bag. Let the air out and it's done. If it's not right, rinse and repeat!

Not as easy to remove that with the 3M stuff if it's not fitting right.
Good luck.
 

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3 M tape would be the easy way to install the felt. I used small stainless steel flat head screws. First I used blue painters tape placed exactly where the felt would go then punched the holes with an awl to locate them. I then removed the tape and adhered it to the felt strip and marked and drilled the holes on the strip. I added a layer of painters tape then duct tape on the paintwork to protect the paint from the screwdriver. If you install the outside felt first then the inside felt second then the other felt doesn't get in the way of the angle of the screwdriver. A little dab of black paint covers the shiny screw.
 

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