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Discussion Starter #1
I think in the past 4 months I have replaced either 3 or 4 regulators on my 2 LS's. In every case, symptom and cause is the same-- gets stuck in full up position, or 3/4 up position. Afgter coaxing a little bit, the window will move and then get stuck again. It is bad when it gets stuck even partially open, becuase then theres no security for inside the car!

The casue on all of them has been the same -- the nylon gear inside the regulator ends up with broken teeth! Thus the motor is turning, but no gear movement (and thus no cable movement) or the broken gear teeth jam the motor. I note that this has occured on both my cars --

New regulator is pricey ! 250 bucks or something like that. Who has a line on cheaper regualtor, or a 250 buck one that has better quality (ie glass filled nylon or polymer alloy or aluminum die cast gear rather than el crappo nylon injection molded weakling??

Like the plenum, I can get the door panel off in 13 minutes (actually plenum is about 18 minutes) and swap the regulator in 20, adjust window, button up, done in an hour or so. BUt c'mon --- nylon gears at the end of their fatigue life and real pricey to fix! RANT OVER!
 

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It is important to lube the window channels with silicone once in a while to reduce the drag on the window when it is driven up by the mechanism. Don't know if that would cure your troubles, but I found it sure makes the window go up easier, thus reducing the loads on the gears, I'm sure. I have a list of areas on my 164's that I have to relube every once in a while.

Yup, I agree, using plastic for gears is bogus for any significant loads. I've had to replace plastic gears in everything from garage door openers, to VCR's to a/c gears in 164's. Junk.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yep agree good call

do you just spray silicone lube down the channels rather than take the door panels off?

thanks, bob
 

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The rear vertical channel is the one which really needs the lubrication. I spray it to excess and it runs down the channel, and when the window is raised and lowered several times, it carries more down into the lower part of the channel. I do suppose you could remove the panel to do a better job, but so far this has worked for me. I really think the problem is in the permanently upper exposed part of the channel, not that down in the door. See below for explanation.

The window being raised had a sound like it was constipated (we all know that one), so I carefully watched the window being raised before I did this the first time, and I was surprised just how much the window resisted being raised, the upward force not being really vertical (or maybe being centered fwd of the bottom middle of the window) but trying to tilt and jam the top rear of the window back into the rear vertical channel. The reverse can be seen when the window is lowered, it moves forward just a little out of the rear channel. When the button is hit again to raise the window, you can just barely see the top rear of the window tilting back deeper into the channel. The window can be rocked back and forth.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
yep heres the photos

You can see the gear has both pulley and gear molded into one, the teeth ripped off is pretty visible. I think the part is el crappo nylon.

Anyone got any ideas on where to source a new one? Could make a small fortune rebuilding window regulators (but you would have to start off with a large fortune unless you found the part already available)!!!!
 

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those **** alfa romeos .........;)
 

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Since I have several spare rear window regulators and no fronts, I've pulled a stunt where I've swapped that nasty nylon gear from a rear regulator to a front regulator. Because the cable is threaded through the gear, it must be cut. Then the cable outer sheaths have to be shortened slightly and equally to give enough length for the inner cable to be joined. I've used the core out of an electrical terminal strip to do this, hollowing out the space in the gear so that the strip-connector core (with two slothead screws) fits inside. The cable is then wound around the gear (a greasy, horrible task) and the gear is reinstalled, with that nasty tin cover refitted with a punch.

The first time this failed because the cable came apart and tangled around the gear, but the second time around I used a whole 'core' with both screws (not just one) and no problem since that I know of (I've sold the car).

For your interest, the early 164 (pre-'90) has a different regulator made by Bosch, identifiable by plastic slides for the glass bracket. This seems like much better quality with a screwed-on cover and gears that don't break. The motor is also smoother and quieter. One of many reasons why I like my old '89... I reckon this was one of those areas where cost was taken out of the original design by finding a cheaper supplier...

Plastic has a place in engineering but it must be the right type and installed with a compatible lubricant.

-Alex
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Alex I thought about that ; Jerry nice quote

Not about using a pre-94 regulator gear, but about how to rebuild the thing if I was lucky enough to find something that could be substituted. After looking at the way the cable threads, and terminates, etc, I quickly lost any interest and you confirmed, its a pig of a job to mess around with that linkage/cable/etc. SO hats off to you brother-- I just threw the thing in the trash can!!! Interestingly enough, now I am brain experimenting on what other mechanisms might be possible to replace this POS

Jerry Q -- nice quote by Nancy !!!
 

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look into electric lifts for hot rods, seems there are a number of makers. Maybe one will fit. I don't have a new Alfa (164), but I am becoming interested in them. So I thought I'd look at this form to see what are the biggest complaints.
 

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Window regulator rant revisited

Goats,

Did you ever find an aftermarket source for window regulators?
My front passenger side window is stuck one third down.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
nope

call Jason at Alfissimo and see what he can source!
 

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Thanks for the feedback. I note Goats' first post about getting
the window regulator replaced and buttoned up "in an hour or so."

Is this a task best left to an expert? I swapped the relays and
fuses. Window shows some downward movement, but only goes
back up to the one-third point, no further. Also applied the silicone
spray.
 

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Thanks for the feedback. I note Goats' first post about getting
the window regulator replaced and buttoned up "in an hour or so."

Is this a task best left to an expert? I swapped the relays and
fuses. Window shows some downward movement, but only goes
back up to the one-third point, no further. Also applied the silicone
spray.
Which window are you referring too? Pull up on glass and hit up on switch to see if you can get by bad spot in window regulator gear.

Search on this BB for procedure to remove inner door panels on 94-95 164. It has been posted recently. Once door panel off job not to difficult to remove regulator and motor assemblies out back lower opening in doors.
 

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Any chance of that gear being used in other vehicles?

Economies of scale would make me think that the regulator manufacturer would try to reuse the components across as many product lines as possible to save on manufacturing costs. Who made the regulators for the 91 - 95 164s? Somebody may get lucky and find that gear in some other vehicle.
 

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front pass window

Which window are you referring too? Pull up on glass and hit up on switch to see if you can get by bad spot in window regulator gear.

Thanks, Steve. It is the front passenger window. I was able to pull it up.
Since problem shows from both switches which operate that window, I assume it is not a switch problem. I have the shop manual and it seems straightfoward.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
yeah easy job generally

One tool that will really help ya is the Lisle tool for removing door panels-- its a bent fork type thing that you lever under the nylon door panel retainers (there are three on the drivers door, first two up high about 2 inches below the upper ledge, third one near the door hinges about 5 or 6 inches down).

If you simply try to yank the panel off, sometimes it will work, and sometimes it will break the panel fastener retainers.

Absolutely hardest part to getting the panel off is releasing the door latch cable from the handle. Helps to have two people, one to hold the panel while you spread the black cable sheath retainer to remove it.
 

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One tool that will really help ya is the Lisle tool for removing door panels-- its a bent fork type thing that you lever under the nylon door panel retainers (there are three on the drivers door, first two up high about 2 inches below the upper ledge, third one near the door hinges about 5 or 6 inches down).

If you simply try to yank the panel off, sometimes it will work, and sometimes it will break the panel fastener retainers.

Absolutely hardest part to getting the panel off is releasing the door latch cable from the handle. Helps to have two people, one to hold the panel while you spread the black cable sheath retainer to remove it.
Here is online tutorial:

Jess' howto - 164 LS Front Driver door panel removal
 
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